loimpact

So I've tried to ignore opinions and fortunately nobody's said much to me about my setup but it's changed quite a bit over a year and a half's time on a road bike. I would love to hear opinions (ya, armchair quarterback, professional, whatever) about what you see looking at my setup and/or position. Saddle, saddle height, mid pedal, bottom pedal stroke, reach, bend.....whatever you like. I'd just like to get some feedback. I know how I feel about it and will divulge my purpose later in this thread but for now just looking for opinions.

2 videos here.....One "on the hoods" and another "in the drops".

TimothyH

I don't understand why there has to be drama.

The Experience

Find an LBS that has the machine, pay a few dollars for a fit session and know for sure.

loimpact

Been there.

Done that.

FLvector

Overall, you look pretty good on the fit from what I can see. The question is, how do you feel after 50, 60, 70 miles? Are you still comfortable near the end of the ride? If not, what are the issues?

The one thing I noticed is at the bottom of the pedal stroke your toe appears to be extended, pointing down. 'Do you feel like your legs are hyper-extending? Are you losing any power with this? Also, it looks like you might be able to go to a slightly longer stem if you have the flexibility and want to stretch out and lower your back. I'd do this only if you desire to get more aero and speed is more important than comfort on a longer ride. Just my 2 cents.

Doge

Depends what you have as goals. You are about like I ride. You are sitting high and your reach is short for racing.
For performance, on the hoods and on the drops *should* be about the same level back. When on hoods the elbows bend more, one the drops, your forearms just move down.

Homebrew01

Looks pretty good. Seat might be a tad high. Experiment with it a bit lower.
I don't ride the flat part of the drops like that. How can you shift ? I'm more in the curve of the drops, elbows more bent, able to reach the shifters.
You could try a slightly longer stem to see how it feels.

loimpact

Thanks FLvector. Very observant on the pedal stroke. I noticed the same thing. That part came after a *revision* from a professional fitting by another "professional fitter". (While I think they can give a good base from which to start, I've noticed as many fitters can give you as many fits if you let them. I plan to return the saddle to the level I had it before and see if I still toe-down on the bottom. (not uncomfortable to me at the moment but fitter suggested I wasn't getting full power at bottom of my stroke)

Thanks Doge. My reach is one of the things I want to address here and it combines with another very important decision coming up. The bike you currently see me on is an EVO in 60cm....(though ETT is 59cm so I kinda' consider it a 59).....and a 100mm stem. When I first bought the bike a fitter put me on a 90mm stem as I came from a hybrid and I since have gotten much more flexible and lower as well.

My decision now comes to whether I should *just* put on a 110mm stem (I have it already) or move to a 58cm EVO and maybe a 120mm stem. (Obviously the former is the quickest/easiest choice)

This because yet ANOTHER fitter thinks I'm on too large a frame. (Anybody got an opinion on how the bike size looks with me on it?)

Thanks Homebrew! As for the drops, I was just cruising. When I crit race, I get lower & more forward. I can darn near knee myself in the ribs when I get really low but not sure I'm as efficient that low for long rides.

FLvector

From what I see the frame doesn't appear to be too large for you. As I mentioned earlier, try a slightly longer stem, so since you already have one to throw on, that's an easy one. Just a suggestion - don't change too many things at once. First do the stem and see how it works for you over several rides. Then adjust seat height/angle if you desire. I've never liked the toe-down position, but that's a personal preference.

loimpact

Thanks. I consider that sound advice and definitely what would be my first move.

For the record (in relation to the frame) here's some info on my body measurements and what bike fit calculator considered. (I'd probably consider myself somewhere right between 58cm and 60cm if I consider their ETT recommendations):

[TABLE="width: 600, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 600, align: center"]
[TR="bgcolor: #F5F5F5"]
[TD="width: 560"]Road Bike Fit Summary[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #fefefe"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 600, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 300, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FEFEFE"]The Eddy Fit (cm)[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FEFEFE"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Seat Tube Range c–c:
Seat Tube Range c–t:
Top Tube Length:
Stem Length:
BB–Saddle Position:
Saddle Handlebar:
Saddle Setback:
[/TD]
[TD]58.8 - 59.3 cm
60.6 - 61.1 cm
57.9 - 58.3 cm
11.1 - 11.7 cm
81 - 83 cm
58.4 - 59 cm
7 - 7.4 cm
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FEFEFE"]The Competitive Fit (cm)[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FEFEFE"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Seat Tube Range c–c:
Seat Tube Range c–t:
Top Tube Length:
Stem Length:
BB–Saddle Position:
Saddle Handlebar:
Saddle Setback:
[/TD]
[TD]57.6 - 58.1 cm
59.4 - 59.9 cm
57.9 - 58.3 cm
12.2 - 12.8 cm
81.8 - 83.8 cm
57.6 - 58.2 cm
5.8 - 6.2 cm
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FEFEFE"]The French Fit (cm)[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FEFEFE"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Seat Tube Range c–c:
Seat Tube Range c–t:
Top Tube Length:
Stem Length:
BB–Saddle Position:
Saddle Handlebar:
Saddle Setback:
[/TD]
[TD]60.5 - 61 cm
62.3 - 62.8 cm
59.1 - 59.5 cm
11.3 - 11.9 cm
79.3 - 81.3 cm
60.1 - 60.7 cm
6.5 - 6.9 cm
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="width: 280, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 280, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FEFEFE"]Your Measurments[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FEFEFE"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Inseam:
Trunk:
Forearm:
Arm:
Thigh:
Lower Leg:
Sternal Notch:
Total Body Height:
[/TD]
[TD]35
28
14.5
27
25
23.5
60.5
74
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

chaadster

Interesting thoughts regarding stem length, because I was thinking a little less reach on the hoods might be in order. I think the drops position looks a little more comfy in the shoulders for the more close-in upper arm angle, but of course if you feel like you need more reach to the bars, then that's that. I was not thinking to shorten the stem, though, but rather to look at a short reach bar and drop the bar height a touch.

Leg extension seemed too much to me, too.

loimpact

Glad to hear a different take. Here's how I feel on most days......................... I'll start out feeling more stretched out than bunched up but as a ride goes on, I feel more limber and actually feel as though I could reach out more. And especially in the drops. I sometimes wish I could reach out & down more than just 5 or 10mm, but actually more like an inch or so. You can imagine, then, why my curiosity for other's views. My first pro fit had no problem giving me a 90mm stem. He also watched me ride a 58cm bike with the stock 110mm stem and had no problem with that either. (another fitter convinced him I was more fit to 60cm despite such a short stem. I just took their "pro" opinion as gospel at the time. I know more now....for better or worse.)

With my saddle setback properly set, I'd assume I could go safely either way on the stem, except I assume at the long end there would probably be diminishing returns.

Doge

I agree.

Still waiting to hear how you ride... length, terrain, speed, racing or not.

loimpact

I ride almost exclusively road.

100-150 mpw

Being you're So Cal also, I know you'll be familiar with SART, GMR, Baldy, Corona, Santiago Canyon, Laguna Canyon, Mtn to Sea, Crystal Lake, etc. etc.

I have a racing license but have only done mock races so far. Lots of crit practice with some very fast/seasoned racers.(weekly) I like a cool looking bike, but will take comfort over cool so the racing part is just for fun.

For tomorrow's ride, I already dropped the saddle about 1/4" and put the 110 stem on, leaving all else alone and replicating my bar position exactly the way it was before. Tomorrow will be about a 50 mile out & back down to the beach. Will definitely report back.

chaadster

Any thought that you're changing your seating position as you get warmed up and power output increases? Like, I wonder if you scootch forward, perhaps to compensate for the saddle height and to give the hamstrings some relief and get the quads more in the game. I think it looked like you were bending your back to get into the drops, but if you're tipping your pelvis, too, I can see how the extra stretch that causes the hamstrings may tend to make you want to pull or scoot yourself forward, again to reduce the leg extension. Did you have hamstring soreness after the fitting, or was that initial setup for the bike?

bakes1

Everything looks good from my house.
Most importantly, you don't seem to be obsessing over your fit.
We wouldn't want your ride getting in the way of your mm adjustments now would we?

cavvycav

Well, you look really well overall. The question is, do you naturally pedal more powerfully with your heels dropping a bit or tiptoed. If you're a drop heels driving pedal stroke cyclist, your saddle is at least 5mm too high. If you're naturally a tiptoed pedaler, you might be right on the money. But do you know what kind of pedaler you are? Your bike looks like its the correct size. What brings you to this question? Do you feel pain or like you're losing power at the bottom of the pedal stroke? Are you experienced and honest with yourself enough to know if you really know these answers? Most correct fits in the acceptable fit range for each individual will just feel right as rain. With that being said, you may not have any issues but it might be worth peace of mind to have a good fitter take a look. A good fitter recognizes different pedaling styles. I'm no fitter but I've been through 3 high level fits and I'm very sensitive to fit changes in general. Thats just my opinion. I hope it helps. BTW-your upper body looks great too. Another consideration is, you may need to work on your hamstring flexibility. You should know this now though.

Doge

I think you are fine with those changes for what you do now.
If/as you change what you are doing, it is appropriate to change your position. Some of that can be just body, not bike. So elbow bend, position in the saddle, arch in the back. And you mentioned some SoCal climbs. If riding up GMR - you look fine today. Doing Santiago, depends how you are going down (and which way you ride it). I think you are a bit too high for the Como group through the canyon. Then you can try it and find out.

loimpact

Ha ha.......Como is brutal.

Quickly as I have to run but will report more later......

Beach run went fine. Didn't think much about position change w/ longer stem unless ride got monotonous. Will post video of today's setup.

Thanks again for the feedback!

P.S. Bakes1.....Welcome to the 41.

woodcraft

Looks like your elbows are sticking out, & shoulders tense.

Tucking the elbows in = more aero, & also tends to bring down, relax the shoulders, & flatten the back.

loimpact

Thanks woodcraft!

Yes, I do tend to get Froomish when riding casually but do make a conscious effort to tuck in those elbows when needed.

Whenever I hear folks tease Froome, I chuckle a little cuz I know I do it too. It just feels better to me.

Doge

On the other hand it also creates space around you if you are in a group.

loimpact

True! (especially tight crits where folks sometimes wanna take your spot)

cavvycav

Sometimes it's elbows out when you're in a crit and people aren't respecting your position. Like if they try to take your wheel. I avoid physical contact with other cyclists but sometimes they'll "feel" my elbows out and know I'm giving it up! Maybe it's just more comfortable too for you. That doesn't mean your fit is wrong. I'm not a certified fitter but I don't drink their cool-aid all the time either. I've had fitters tell me I looked great then another would say they'd do better and change nothing. Or they will fit you to how they ride, basically fitting with personal bias. I think most perceptive observant folks know when their fit is wrong. Especially people that recognize details and maybe their bodies like repetition. I feel a small fit change when I change bib chamois thickness. Thats just me. I've ridden for 19 years and I've raced seriously 5 of those years. I'd say for me, I stand a ton but I love to climb and sprint. That doesn't make my fit bad-FWIW.

loimpact

Ok, and as promised, here's video from today......(kinda in a hurry and I had half unzipped my jersey so jersey's not as snug as I'd like to show torso angle, but gives the gist)....




To elaborate from earlier, again....if I weren't paying attention, I probably wouldn't have noticed except for my garmin mount not being there. I think some of that has to do with my significantly increased flexibility.....(I was going to comment to Doge earlier that I can literally do the "laying forearms down rearward of hoods while grabbing hoods").....like Cancellara here...... ......though I can't stay there for extended periods of time. I'll use that position when I'm taking a pull and feel like there's too much wind to try and pinch shut my torso pocket.

But, basically, a move here or there of 1cm just doesn't feel like much at my size. For someone 5'6" or smaller, I'd guess it's probably more significant.

And, FWIW, I don't see a whole lot of difference myself and even still appear to "toe-down" at the bottom of my stroke so perhaps that's just the way I finish my stroke?

chaadster

Haha! It looks like I would have expected: the longer stem has you pulling yourself forward on the saddle more, hunching your back trying to stay further back on your pelvis. Your back was flatter and more natural looking with the shorter stem.

Leg extension looks better with saddle drop.