CF vs. Al vs. Steel
02-05-16, 10:12 AM
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...frame material does not matter. It's the color you paint it that matters: red for speed, blue for comfort, pink to assert your masculinity.
...frame material does not matter. It's the color you paint it that matters: red for speed, blue for comfort, pink to assert your masculinity.
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02-05-16, 10:18 AM
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Steel cut oatmeal is real.
****.
****.
02-05-16, 10:21 AM
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I've had all three materials. I use to swear off Alloy till I rode the latest alloy. I can hardly tell the difference anymore between all 3 except when its time to pay the credit card bill.
02-05-16, 10:21 AM
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02-05-16, 10:50 AM
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Frame material makes little difference. Things like geometry, sizing, and stiffness are the main factors which determine characteristics such as handling and comfort.
There are some subtle differences which are affected by material, like: I prefer real metal frames because of the road feel.
As for durability, I don't believe that carbon will hold up as well over the long-term. It requires more careful treatment than most metal frames; It ages (I don't think we'll be seeing people riding 30 and 40 year-old CF frames, like we see with metal frames), and quite frankly, I've never seen/heard of so many regular people having broken frames, as I've seen since CF has become the norm. When steel was ubiquitous, I had never seen anyone break a frame in half from a crash, or have a major structural failure just from normal use. (Of course, there are some heavier and more powerful riders who seem to be able to break any frame, no matter what it's made of- but I'm speaking in general of the average rider).
And the thing with carbon is: Even if the frame doesn't actually break, if there is any sign of damage, or if the bike has been in a crash, the frame becomes suspect, and "iffy" to ride- as unlike metal, CF fails catastrophically and without warning- so pretty much, even if the frame isn't broken, once it becomes suspect, most people would not want to take the chance of still riding it and risking sudden catastrophi failure.
I've owned a good CF bike. I wasn't impressed with it. My only current bike is aluminum; and my next bike will most likely be vintage steel.
There are some subtle differences which are affected by material, like: I prefer real metal frames because of the road feel.
As for durability, I don't believe that carbon will hold up as well over the long-term. It requires more careful treatment than most metal frames; It ages (I don't think we'll be seeing people riding 30 and 40 year-old CF frames, like we see with metal frames), and quite frankly, I've never seen/heard of so many regular people having broken frames, as I've seen since CF has become the norm. When steel was ubiquitous, I had never seen anyone break a frame in half from a crash, or have a major structural failure just from normal use. (Of course, there are some heavier and more powerful riders who seem to be able to break any frame, no matter what it's made of- but I'm speaking in general of the average rider).
And the thing with carbon is: Even if the frame doesn't actually break, if there is any sign of damage, or if the bike has been in a crash, the frame becomes suspect, and "iffy" to ride- as unlike metal, CF fails catastrophically and without warning- so pretty much, even if the frame isn't broken, once it becomes suspect, most people would not want to take the chance of still riding it and risking sudden catastrophi failure.
I've owned a good CF bike. I wasn't impressed with it. My only current bike is aluminum; and my next bike will most likely be vintage steel.
02-05-16, 11:16 AM
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Metal frames also fail catastrophically. People seem to think that metal bends, but that is only if the failure is due to yield. A fatigue induced failure will cause the metal tube to snap (often with no warning)
As to how long will carbon fiber frames last, that remains to be seen. In theory carbon can be built to have an infinite fatigue life. I do find it funny that people rail against carbon frames but carbon fiber forks have been common place for about two decades now. There should be no cyclist left alive if carbon was so fragile and dangerous.
As to how long will carbon fiber frames last, that remains to be seen. In theory carbon can be built to have an infinite fatigue life. I do find it funny that people rail against carbon frames but carbon fiber forks have been common place for about two decades now. There should be no cyclist left alive if carbon was so fragile and dangerous.
02-05-16, 11:29 AM
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02-05-16, 12:26 PM
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02-05-16, 01:01 PM
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Metal frames also fail catastrophically. People seem to think that metal bends, but that is only if the failure is due to yield. A fatigue induced failure will cause the metal tube to snap (often with no warning)
As to how long will carbon fiber frames last, that remains to be seen. In theory carbon can be built to have an infinite fatigue life. I do find it funny that people rail against carbon frames but carbon fiber forks have been common place for about two decades now. There should be no cyclist left alive if carbon was so fragile and dangerous.
As to how long will carbon fiber frames last, that remains to be seen. In theory carbon can be built to have an infinite fatigue life. I do find it funny that people rail against carbon frames but carbon fiber forks have been common place for about two decades now. There should be no cyclist left alive if carbon was so fragile and dangerous.
And yes, I have a 19 year-old CF fork on my AL bike....but CF forks are built quite beefy; plus the size and shape helps. I'm not a carbon alarmist- I did own a CF bile and had no problem with it- but it's just a fact of life now that the majority of bikes are made of CF- there are a lot of warranty replacements, and one sees a lot of broken frames- a lot more than used to be the case before CF came on the scene. And not that they all fail catastrophically- a lot of them just get replaced because they are damaged- not yet broken- because one can't be sure if they will then fail or not- which essentially ends their useful life, just as if they were broken in half. It's just a fact of life with CF- whether you love CF or hate it.
02-05-16, 01:05 PM
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You forgot Ti, and that would be my choice based on research. I am currently lookin for a Ti all rounder/endurance bike with clearance for 28mm tires. ride it in the rain, who cares? durable material, light, compliant, cushy ride, prettier than carbon. whats not to like? Now to find one i like in my size!
02-05-16, 01:13 PM
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Seriously though, just how often do you see broken metal frames, compared to broken carbon? -And even back in the day when everyone rode metal, because that's all there was. A mechanic I was talking to says that he sees broken CF frames EVERY week. He doesn't think anything of it, as he's too young to have been around when all frames were metal- but I guarantee you that a broken frame was not a common sight back in the day- and when one did see one, it was usually the result of being hit by a car.
And yes, I have a 19 year-old CF fork on my AL bike....but CF forks are built quite beefy; plus the size and shape helps. I'm not a carbon alarmist- I did own a CF bile and had no problem with it- but it's just a fact of life now that the majority of bikes are made of CF- there are a lot of warranty replacements, and one sees a lot of broken frames- a lot more than used to be the case before CF came on the scene. And not that they all fail catastrophically- a lot of them just get replaced because they are damaged- not yet broken- because one can't be sure if they will then fail or not- which essentially ends their useful life, just as if they were broken in half. It's just a fact of life with CF- whether you love CF or hate it.
And yes, I have a 19 year-old CF fork on my AL bike....but CF forks are built quite beefy; plus the size and shape helps. I'm not a carbon alarmist- I did own a CF bile and had no problem with it- but it's just a fact of life now that the majority of bikes are made of CF- there are a lot of warranty replacements, and one sees a lot of broken frames- a lot more than used to be the case before CF came on the scene. And not that they all fail catastrophically- a lot of them just get replaced because they are damaged- not yet broken- because one can't be sure if they will then fail or not- which essentially ends their useful life, just as if they were broken in half. It's just a fact of life with CF- whether you love CF or hate it.
Personally I have had a carbon frame fail (front derailleur direct mount tab cracked, frame was replaced under warranty) and a titanium frame fail (cracked at the seat tube Junction due to fatigue) And no, most carbon frames are not junked at the first hint of damage. So yes, I think you are being a "carbon alarmist."
02-05-16, 01:17 PM
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02-05-16, 01:19 PM
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Seriously though, just how often do you see broken metal frames, compared to broken carbon? -And even back in the day when everyone rode metal, because that's all there was. A mechanic I was talking to says that he sees broken CF frames EVERY week. He doesn't think anything of it, as he's too young to have been around when all frames were metal- but I guarantee you that a broken frame was not a common sight back in the day- and when one did see one, it was usually the result of being hit by a car.
And yes, I have a 19 year-old CF fork on my AL bike....but CF forks are built quite beefy; plus the size and shape helps. I'm not a carbon alarmist- I did own a CF bile and had no problem with it- but it's just a fact of life now that the majority of bikes are made of CF- there are a lot of warranty replacements, and one sees a lot of broken frames- a lot more than used to be the case before CF came on the scene. And not that they all fail catastrophically- a lot of them just get replaced because they are damaged- not yet broken- because one can't be sure if they will then fail or not- which essentially ends their useful life, just as if they were broken in half. It's just a fact of life with CF- whether you love CF or hate it.
And yes, I have a 19 year-old CF fork on my AL bike....but CF forks are built quite beefy; plus the size and shape helps. I'm not a carbon alarmist- I did own a CF bile and had no problem with it- but it's just a fact of life now that the majority of bikes are made of CF- there are a lot of warranty replacements, and one sees a lot of broken frames- a lot more than used to be the case before CF came on the scene. And not that they all fail catastrophically- a lot of them just get replaced because they are damaged- not yet broken- because one can't be sure if they will then fail or not- which essentially ends their useful life, just as if they were broken in half. It's just a fact of life with CF- whether you love CF or hate it.
02-05-16, 01:36 PM
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On the off-chance you're not trolling, I'll try to help.
Frame material makes no difference to handling, and almost none to comfort. If you don't crash or otherwise abuse them, they'll all last many tens of thousands of miles. What counts is geometry and how the bike fits you, because those are going to dictate how comfortable you are for long rides.
/thread (please?)
Frame material makes no difference to handling, and almost none to comfort. If you don't crash or otherwise abuse them, they'll all last many tens of thousands of miles. What counts is geometry and how the bike fits you, because those are going to dictate how comfortable you are for long rides.
/thread (please?)
To the OP:
Everybody on BF KNOWS that-
Aluminum is too stiff.
Steel is too heavy.
Carbon is too fragile.
Titanium is too flexy.
02-05-16, 01:39 PM
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Seriously though, just how often do you see broken metal frames, compared to broken carbon? -And even back in the day when everyone rode metal, because that's all there was. A mechanic I was talking to says that he sees broken CF frames EVERY week. He doesn't think anything of it, as he's too young to have been around when all frames were metal- but I guarantee you that a broken frame was not a common sight back in the day- and when one did see one, it was usually the result of being hit by a car.
02-05-16, 01:45 PM
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...I cannot understand why it's so rare to see a pink plastic bike. It's like Barbie does not exist in the CF universe.
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02-05-16, 01:46 PM
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02-05-16, 01:58 PM
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Yes, amazing.
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02-05-16, 02:01 PM
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02-05-16, 02:30 PM
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