link0

https://youtu.be/ER1SRUmMLkA?t=1m45s

I think the idea of using hydraulics to move derailleurs is terrible compared to using electric motors. What do you guys think?

datlas 

Seems pretty foolish to me but the proof is in the pudding. How well does it work?

canuckcicle

I can see it being an improvement to mechanical no cables to replace or tuning due to cable stretch. Dimension data had one rider on it in Dubai and the entire cervelo bigla squad is running it

KBentley57

There are several issues that can be avoided compared to both electronic and mechanical shifting. One is the issue of batteries. Another is the issue of adding additional shifters. Another is weight. If they can provide a functional group at the right price it will be successful. I doubt they'll cease production because you think it's a bad idea.

GeoKrpan

Seems like a good idea to me. I think in the long run the price of electronic will fall precipitously. Has to be cheaper to manufacture than all those itty bitty, precision parts in mechanical shifters. Don't know if hydraulic can compete pricewise.

rms13

It will be lighter than electronic and I believe they are claiming lightest groupset ever. And in theory the shifting will stay tuned and never need to replace fluid so zero maintenance. I'm interested. More options are always good

People on weightweenies are certainly excited and I think that's the target audience

joejack951

I am trying to figure out how they are achieving precision motion with a hydraulic system. However the precision is being achieved is where the issues might crop up. It has to be by mechanical means so perhaps they have some sort of ratcheting piston in the shifters. The rear derailleur in the video had the typical return spring of a cable shifted derailleur which makes me think that even more. If it works, it works, though. Shimano STI are quite mechanically complex but they've been as reliable as they need to be for me.

gregf83 

They move the indexing and ratcheting from the shifters to the derailleurs. You can read about it in their patent application: Rotor patent application shows single-lever, one-way mechanical and hydraulic shifting - Bikerumor

rpenmanparker 

I know you are broad minded enough not to mind a usage correction. The proof is not in the pudding. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating".

rpenmanparker 

Yes, but lighter where? In the brakes and crank would not be attributable to the hydraulic shifting mechanisms.

I think the whole thing is a black hole that Rotor has a very good chance of disappearing into. To paraphrase Judy Collins's Patriot Games: The love of one's own inventions is a terrible thing. It banishes fear with the speed of a flame.

Been there. Done that. Got the T-shirt.

joejack951

Thanks for the link.

TimothyH

Hydraulic shifting is not a new invention. Cars have had hydraulic shifting since GM put the Hyrdamatic transmission into Oldsmobiles and Caddilacs in 1939.

Whether it gets traction in the market is one thing but from a purely technical perspective, adapting hydraulics to bicycles isn't that big of a deal. In fact it is a pretty small deal.



-Tim-

DrIsotope

While I remain a proponent of a well-tuned mechanically shifted drivetrain with no desire to upgrade to anything new-fangled, I must say: after having seen SRAM Red E-Tap operate up close, it makes a whole lot more sense than Rotor's hydraulic setup. The hydro-shifting doesn't seem like a solution to a problem anyone is having, but rather a solution looking for a problem. Throw so hydraulic shifting together with that system that puts the freehub in the BB and you've got yourself a solid contraption, I tell you what.

PepeM

While I see your point, what problem is eTap solving?

DrIsotope

Well, it doesn't have any shifting cables or wires, for one thing.

PepeM

I know, and it is really nice, but cables were not really a 'problem,' were they?

I think eTap looks great and will sell well. This hydraulic groupset, I am not too sure. If it works well and they manage to make it lighter than anything else out there then it might also find its small place in the market.

TimothyH

Re bold/red

Batteries go dead and leave the rider with one gear to get home. Also the need to charge batteries in the first place is avoided with hydraulics. We can argue semantics, whether these are problems or not, but they are non-issues with hydraulics.

I don't think it can be argued that Hydro-shifting is a "solution waiting for a problem." Hydraulics in general are have been used in industry since the hydraulic presses of the early 1800's and hydraulic shifting has been available in automobiles since the 1930's.

Contrary to your statement, I think it does provide a solution to some very real problems and it doesn't pose any new problems that haven't existed already.

rms13

Hydraulic fluid is much lighter than steel cables, batteries or added electronics in electronic deraileurs. So if components are Red level weight then all things being equal the group will be lighter than comparable mechanical or electronic group...or so they tell me. I was skeptical when it was first announced about six ago but now I'm very interested to see how it compares to the likes of etap when everything actually hits the market

dr_lha

It can be installed as an easy upgrade on any frame.

rms13

Etap still requires brake cable or hydraulic lines for brakes. If the only problem wireless solves is not having to run cables that's a minor problem. You run cables when you build and maybe once a year for maintainance. And even on my internally routed frame it takes about 15 minutes to run all 4 cables so I'm not losing any sleep over it. Most mechanics I've heard from say that good hydraulic systems are much more reliable and easy to maintain. If I understand what I've read about the Rotor system you basically never have to change the cables after its installed unless a line gets cut in an accident or something. And everything stays tuned over time so it promises to be as close to maintenance free system as possible

rpenmanparker 

What little I know about hydraulics is that they offer two main advantages to systems they are used in: force multiplication as in the case of brakes and clutchless gear shifting due to transmission of force by a fluid instead of a solid mechanism as in automatic auto transmissions. As far as I know, neither of these functions are required for effective bicycle gear shifting which isn't automatic anyway at this time.

rmfnla

This and the ability to route force almost anywhere.

Still, none of these advantage are really needed for shifting a bicycle, at least not in any way a standard cable system can't manage...

silversx80

I'm curious to see where this development goes. Minimal line friction, light weight, reduced maintenance and adjustments, no worries about water invasion into lines, increased longevity, and no batteries. It may catch on, or it may not.

datlas 

I don't mind. Others may take it personally, but I am grown up enough to appreciate it.

So the proof of the hydraulic drivetrain is in the shifting. Better?

PepeM

If it is as good and offers lighter weight then there will be interest.