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Venturi Breezer Detailed Review

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Venturi Breezer Detailed Review

Old 02-16-16, 09:20 AM
  #126  
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BTW, I have a friend who has a couple of nice bikes with huge stacks of spacers and skyrocket stems. He likes good equipment but is inflexible due to accidents. He makes no excuses, that's what he needs to be comfortable.
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Old 02-16-16, 09:24 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
This is patronizing and frankly nonsense. Are you saying that with your "deeper experience" you sought out this bike with this geometry? If you bought it at retail that might be believable. It seems more likely that you bought what you could get for a price and did what it took to make it usable. I don't think anyone would ride a bike set up like your bike if cost was not the primary consideration. Acknowledging that seems more intellectually honest than claiming some sort of insight to bike fit that has eluded the rest of the cycling community.
Umm, yes, that's what pretty much most of us do...pick a frame/bike you like, get close to fit, and then dial it in.

What's the problem with that?

Maybe the deeper experience means he understands not all frames are custom built, and that's okay: experienced riders can adapt and adjust from a non-perfectly sized base. I guess for some folks, unless you have a totally custom built bike, everything else is unworkable?

And since when isn't cost a primary consideration for the vast majority of riders?
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Old 02-16-16, 09:24 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
The place is still there. The name has just been changed over time. But what would be more appropriate than a fictional transporter system to get to a fictional place.
Time machine then.
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Old 02-16-16, 09:36 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
Umm, yes, that's what pretty much most of us do...pick a frame/bike you like, get close to fit, and then dial it in.

What's the problem with that?

Maybe the deeper experience means he understands not all frames are custom built, and that's okay: experienced riders can adapt and adjust from a non-perfectly sized base.
This is true, but some people think that using a huge stack of spacers, a high rise stem, and a very long seat post ruins the esthetics of an otherwise attractive bike.

Most people I know would want to get a frame that is closer to fitting them as a starting point.
YMMV
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Old 02-16-16, 10:04 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Inpd View Post
@Stucky showed me his setup and there is no way I could ride his setup but I'm sure he goes a lot faster than me.
[In a Bugs Bunny voice]: He don't know me vehwy well, do he?
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Old 02-16-16, 10:07 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
Umm, yes, that's what pretty much most of us do...pick a frame/bike you like, get close to fit, and then dial it in.

What's the problem with that?

Maybe the deeper experience means he understands not all frames are custom built, and that's okay: experienced riders can adapt and adjust from a non-perfectly sized base. I guess for some folks, unless you have a totally custom built bike, everything else is unworkable?

And since when isn't cost a primary consideration for the vast majority of riders?
I agree with you 100%. Well, 99%. I think you are being too charitable with your interpretation of his post.
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Old 02-16-16, 10:16 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by Inpd View Post

I don't get why people can't accept his point, that people's bike can be setup what-ever way they want. @Stucky showed me his setup and there is no way I could ride his setup but I'm sure he goes a lot faster than me.
What you say is true. It's your bike. Do what you want. However, to understand the negativity expressed here by some, consider the analogy of this forum to a dog show. You may love your rather homely mutt with all your heart, but he isn't going to win at Westminster. More important you wouldn't even enter him as the ridicule would be daunting. Same here. If you depart from the norm of what is generally regarded as an attractive bike setup, you will be called on it. You may love the look, but don't expect most others to appreciate it.
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Old 02-16-16, 10:25 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
Umm, yes, that's what pretty much most of us do...pick a frame/bike you like, get close to fit, and then dial it in.

What's the problem with that?

Maybe the deeper experience means he understands not all frames are custom built, and that's okay: experienced riders can adapt and adjust from a non-perfectly sized base. I guess for some folks, unless you have a totally custom built bike, everything else is unworkable?

And since when isn't cost a primary consideration for the vast majority of riders?
One could make just about any bike work, but I think it works out far better if one starts with a frame which has the proportions and geometry that they prefer and which suits their bodily dimensions, so that they need to make the fewest mods necessary to achieve a comfortable fit and their preferred position. Like me: I prefer an aggressive position (even though I just putter around, I don't race or anything- I just find it comfortable) and I like a tight cockbit and a bike on the small side. I don't have long arms or an extra-0long torso, so I stay away from bikes with a long TT. It's great that they have bikes of different proportions to accomodate riders with various bodily proportions and preferences, so that pretty much anyone can find bikes which fit perfectly, right off the shelf- so why not take advantage of that fact, instead of trying to make something which was designed for one body type/position preference into somethinjg it was never intended to be? (That's something one might need to do with a Walmart bike- but there's no reason for it with real bikes, when there exists such a wealth of frame variations on the market).

By-the-way, love your username- especially the spelling!
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Old 02-16-16, 11:10 AM
  #134  
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I didn't read this thread, but I did get a great new signature out of the OP. Thanks @Inpd!
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Old 02-16-16, 11:43 PM
  #135  
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Wessex is a fictional town in Ontario, setting for "Dan for Mayor". The series was filmed in my hometown. I'm just under 5-10, proportions that are within 1SD of normal, and flexible through my hips with good core strength. It's a long TT, but compensated by a shorter than usual stem (100mm) and smaller than usual fork rake (40mm), so everything balances out. It's a racy fit, stretched out the way I like it. My original post has the bike against horizontal slats, you can see what the actual saddle-bar drop is.
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Old 02-17-16, 04:42 AM
  #136  
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I guess what I'm not getting in this discussion is why some riders are so concerned about the size and positioning of the stem.

I mean to me, the threadless stem system is perhaps one of the greatest advancements in bicycle component designs ever because they are so easy and cheap to swap out, and stem length and bar height are central to dialing in a comfortable position, almost regardless of TT length. A truly elegant design IMO.

What difference does it make if the stem is "up" or "down"? Seems to me all the ones I see have the manufacturer's logo printed on so it can be read either way. My guess is they fully expected people to flip them around to find their sweet spot on the bike. Brilliant bit of kit IMO if only for the shear simplicity.

And why do they come in so many sizes and angles if not to address fit issues, which are off the shelf frame size issues for most of us? Seems to me product designers did everybody a huge favor when they came up with this system.

So what difference does it make how a rider chooses to position his stem, or chose the length and angle of his stem, if in the end he/she is comfortable? Why put limits or "rules" around somebody else's positioning when it works for him?

Bicycle designers set out to open up possibilities with the threadless stem design. Why then be so closed minded as to say stems have to fit only one way and be only so long or be only so high?

I agree, maybe there are functional parameters to use as guidelines, but those guidelines should not be so rigid as to be black and white about what's right or wrong. From what I see in the above pics, those are 2 very nice bikes set by their owners to be rode the way they like, not for taking nice pictures.

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Old 02-17-16, 05:42 AM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
I guess what I'm not getting in this discussion is why some riders are so concerned about the size and positioning of the stem.

I mean to me, the threadless stem system is perhaps one of the greatest advancements in bicycle component designs ever because they are so easy and cheap to swap out, and stem length and bar height are central to dialing in a comfortable position, almost regardless of TT length. A truly elegant design IMO.

What difference does it make if the stem is "up" or "down"? Seems to me all the ones I see have the manufacturer's logo printed on so it can be read either way. My guess is they fully expected people to flip them around to find their sweet spot on the bike. Brilliant bit of kit IMO if only for the shear simplicity.

And why do they come in so many sizes and angles if not to address fit issues, which are off the shelf frame size issues for most of us? Seems to me product designers did everybody a huge favor when they came up with this system.

So what difference does it make how a rider chooses to position his stem, or chose the length and angle of his stem, if in the end he/she is comfortable? Why put limits or "rules" around somebody else's positioning when it works for him?

Bicycle designers set out to open up possibilities with the threadless stem design. Why then be so closed minded as to say stems have to fit only one way and be only so long or be only so high?

I agree, maybe there are functional parameters to use as guidelines, but those guidelines should not be so rigid as to be black and white about what's right or wrong. From what I see in the above pics, those are 2 very nice bikes set by their owners to be rode the way they like, not for taking nice pictures.
Incorrect. It's not how you feel, it's how it looks.
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Old 02-17-16, 05:42 AM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
I guess what I'm not getting in this discussion is why some riders are so concerned about the size and positioning of the stem.

I mean to me, the threadless stem system is perhaps one of the greatest advancements in bicycle component designs ever because they are so easy and cheap to swap out, and stem length and bar height are central to dialing in a comfortable position, almost regardless of TT length. A truly elegant design IMO.

What difference does it make if the stem is "up" or "down"? Seems to me all the ones I see have the manufacturer's logo printed on so it can be read either way. My guess is they fully expected people to flip them around to find their sweet spot on the bike. Brilliant bit of kit IMO if only for the shear simplicity.

And why do they come in so many sizes and angles if not to address fit issues, which are off the shelf frame size issues for most of us? Seems to me product designers did everybody a huge favor when they came up with this system.

So what difference does it make how a rider chooses to position his stem, or chose the length and angle of his stem, if in the end he/she is comfortable? Why put limits or "rules" around somebody else's positioning when it works for him?

Bicycle designers set out to open up possibilities with the threadless stem design. Why then be so closed minded as to say stems have to fit only one way and be only so long or be only so high?

I agree, maybe there are functional parameters to use as guidelines, but those guidelines should not be so rigid as to be black and white about what's right or wrong. From what I see in the above pics, those are 2 very nice bikes set by their owners to be rode the way they like, not for taking nice pictures.
All true, except that the closer you can get to ideal (in all things), the better. What is ideal? Well first and foremost what the owner wants. But beyond that there are certain ideas about what is visually pleasing and there are also beliefs about what bikes setups are most functional. Stray too far from those and folks will let you know that there might have been a better approach. Right or wrong? No not really, just better or worse.
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Old 02-17-16, 05:43 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
I
I mean to me, the threadless stem system is perhaps one of the greatest advancements in bicycle component designs ever because they are so easy and cheap to swap out
Aside from the fact that you can make more precise adjustments of bar height with a quill stem with a twist of one stem bolt and not have to cut steerer tubes and use spacers. I wouldn't call threadless much of an advancement. More of a PIA perhaps.
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Old 02-17-16, 06:03 AM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Aside from the fact that you can make more precise adjustments of bar height with a quill stem with a twist of one stem bolt and not have to cut steerer tubes and use spacers. I wouldn't call threadless much of an advancement. More of a PIA perhaps.
I don't think you mean aside from the fact. I think you mean considering the fact.

To me it is kind of a toss up. The threadless system saves weight and introduced the removable face plate, which is a tremendous convenience. But once the steerer is cut, the bar height can only go down, not up, and only a little depending on how many spacers you start out with. The threaded system was easier to adjust up and down...for the entire life of the bike.

Personally I like the new system better including the beefier look. Quill stems are just a little too delicate looking for my taste. Of course quill stems could nowadays be lightened due to the larger diameter head tubes and hollow construction techniques. Also there is no reason the removable face plate couldn't be used on a quill stem. And the threadless type adapters for threaded steerers really do just that.

Once you get away from steel steerer tubes, though, the threaded method really isn't sound. Aside from that I can't say there is a clear cut winner between the two approaches.
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Old 02-17-16, 06:31 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Also there is no reason the removable face plate couldn't be used on a quill stem.
They are, I have one. Quill stems were really starting to get cool when threadless took over.

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Old 02-17-16, 06:52 AM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
All true, except that the closer you can get to ideal (in all things), the better.
So far, so good.
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
What is ideal? Well first and foremost what the owner wants.
Yes, it is not unreasonable that the bike should fit the person who actually has to ride it ... Hmmmm. Funny that this should even need to be mentioned, but well ... people are shall we say, varied, in their thought processes.
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
But beyond that there are certain ideas about what is visually pleasing and there are also beliefs about what bikes setups are most functional.
True, but incorrect ... let me explain. Yes, there are a Lot of people who will harass other people for "not looking right" whether it be hairstyle, fashion, bike setup, whatever. Bunch of crap,. Narrow-minded selfish herd-followers who live in fear of not conforming.

Some people like a french fit, and think exposed seatposts are bad. Some people like smaller frames and feel more maneuverable with a compact (and possibly marginally lighter) frame with a longer stem and post. Neither is more "functional" as both function just as well. It is purely a matter of personal taste, and some people get their tastes from the herd, while others from other places. Pretty much every new idea is crapped on ... until it is widely accepted. Ask Copernicus.

If some set-ups are truly non-functional, and a person were trying to help another person find a better-functioning set-up ... then looks wouldn't mean a thing. If the person wasn't getting full leg extension or was hyper-extending, if a person was stretching beyond his/her ability and losing power and experiencing pain ... then one might point out the proven "best practices" for riding a bike with maximum efficiency and minimal physical harm ... but whether that improved efficiency is achieved using a stack of spacers or a larger frame shouldn't matter. Get the control/contact surfaces in the proper relationship give n the specific rider's build and ability, that's all.
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Stray too far from those and folks will let you know that there might have been a better approach.
yeah that's true for sure: Stray from the norm and people will freak out on you ... it happened when the norm was slavery, or women having no rights, or when people wanted religious freedom ... These Must be terrible ideas because they stray from the norm.
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Right or wrong? No not really, just better or worse.
Here's a thing: "Better" and "Worse" are gradients on a scale of "Right or Wrong." When someone says, "This way is better" s/he is saying, "This way is closer to 'Right" while your way is closer to "Wrong."

When it comes to the mechanics of cycling, the physiological and mechanical interfaces, such that a human body can exert energy efficiently for transportation using a bicycle without incurring injury, there is a "Right" and "Wrong," namely, using energy efficiently and not doing physical harm. Anything much beyond that is pure opinion---and people who think that buying a larger frame instead of using a lot of spacers and a lot of exposed seatpost are addressing personal aesthetics only.

Beyond that, each rider has a different place on the "Right/Wrong" scale of efficient/harmful. Some riders are more comfortable sitting bolt upright on a very padded seat and not ever extending their legs, sort of doing that "beach cruiser paddle." Their need for "efficiency" is overwhelmed by their desire for comfort, and they do not injure themselves because they don't reach for performance extremes. Therefore the set-up is perfect---they achieve exactly what they need.

Time-trialers versus road-racers vs. track racers vs. fat old guys riding for pleasure ... each will have a vastly different setup and each might be completely right for the discipline---even though the same set-up might be damaging or inefficient for a different discipline.

Cyclists are a highly prejudiced and hidebound lot, we are. We truly believe that there are better and worse ways to look while riding bikes, and that this makes a big difference to all cyclists everywhere. We tend to think in terms of tradition, and assume the folks in the past did it right (that works so well with so many disciplines right? Think of medicine, flight, space flight, cars, computers---the old guys did it right and we should emulate them, right? Oh, wait ... )

I have two really comfortable bikes, bikes which I can ride for several hours and enjoy tremendously. One is a 50-cm frame, one is about 58. A lot of people would criticize my set-up on either---stem is too long or too short or too steep or too many spacers, too much seatpost exposed, not enough seat-bar drop ... and They Would All Be Wrong, because I can ride either bike for several hours in comfort and with great joy---and That Is All That Matters.

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Old 02-17-16, 07:36 AM
  #143  
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Like I said before, the Venturi takes discussion where most bikes can't, and that is proof the Venturi is special. Yeah, we get a lot of misguided and ill-founded discussion, but it's not so hard to separate the wheat from the chaff, and see which ideas derive from ignorance and fear.

Fear...it's a funny attribute for a bike to engender in people, but clearly that's what's going on this mad scramble to find and justify every objection to the bike regardless of reason.

As amusing as it is-- and believe me, pining for quill stems is ****ing amusing!-- I'm getting a little anxious to move on from the Fantasy Fit Calculations and see what kind of frothy debate we can whip up over post-weld heat treating of the hydroformed tubing. Those are two more points distinguishing the Venturi, which is a World first, don't ya know!
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Old 02-17-16, 07:43 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
and believe me, pining for quill stems is ****ing amusing!
You should get over your ignorance and fear.
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Old 02-17-16, 07:49 AM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
They are, I have one. Quill stems were really starting to get cool when threadless took over.

That is one fugly quill stem.
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Old 02-17-16, 07:51 AM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
You should get over your ignorance and fear.
Oh, I did my time, and continue to, with threaded steerers, and I was there when the Aheadset was launched. I know full well that the threadless system is lighter, stronger, more reliable, easier to adjust and service, and more fool-proof than threaded stems. I know the MTB and BMX worlds were quick to adopt the tech because they were, at the time, much more forward thinking and progressive cycling cultures than the road bike world, which I think thought it was steeped in a tried-and-true tradition of what works.

Of course, we now know that roadies just didn't know and good thing when they saw it, and were simply late to the game.
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Old 02-17-16, 07:58 AM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Oh, I did my time, and continue to, with threaded steerers, and I was there when the Aheadset was launched. I know full well that the threadless system is lighter, stronger, more reliable, easier to adjust and service, and more fool-proof than threaded stems. I know the MTB and BMX worlds were quick to adopt the tech because they were, at the time, much more forward thinking and progressive cycling cultures than the road bike world, which I think thought it was steeped in a tried-and-true tradition of what works.

Of course, we now know that roadies just didn't know and good thing when they saw it, and were simply late to the game.
I was there before threadless existed. I liked threadless (my first was on my brand new '93 Trek 8000) when it came out, but when I had to deal with cutting a steerer tube the first time I became less of a fan. Threaded headsets only take about 60 seconds longer to adjust. I don't dislike threadless, but I'm not sure why you would think it's amusing to like quill stems. That was an odd comment.

Ignorance, fear, forward thinking, progressive? You're whipping out all the, ahem, "buzzwords" aren't you
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Old 02-17-16, 08:00 AM
  #148  
chaadster
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Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post
That is one fugly quill stem.
It is-- and I use one, too!-- but it wasn't posted as a paradigm of beauty, but rather as proof that some rather self-satisfied account of "how things are" was not as satisfying as believed to be!

More clearly, threadless headsets were never about removeable faceplates.
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Old 02-17-16, 08:01 AM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post
That is one fugly quill stem.
I'll paint it flat black for you guys.
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Old 02-17-16, 08:12 AM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
I was there before threadless existed. I liked threadless (my first was on my brand new '93 Trek 8000) when it came out, but when I had to deal with cutting a steerer tube the first time I became less of a fan. Threaded headsets only take about 60 seconds longer to adjust. I don't dislike threadless, but I'm not sure why you would think it's amusing to like quill stems. That was an odd comment.

Ignorance, fear, forward thinking, progressive? You're whipping out all the, ahem, "buzzwords" aren't you
I think I've got it; you think threaded headsets are better. Good for you. Have a nice day!
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