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Venturi Breezer Detailed Review

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Venturi Breezer Detailed Review

Old 02-17-16, 08:25 AM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
I'll paint it flat black for you guys.
That's not the issue. The issue is the matching of a skinny quill stem with a chunky oversized clamp, along with the nasty aluminum welds to go with it. Quill stems to me look graceful, this looks like someone put a quill stem on steroids, and it turned into an ugly brute.
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Old 02-17-16, 09:39 AM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post
That's not the issue. The issue is the matching of a skinny quill stem with a chunky oversized clamp, along with the nasty aluminum welds to go with it. Quill stems to me look graceful, this looks like someone put a quill stem on steroids, and it turned into an ugly brute.
But flat black would make it more progressive and forward thinking.
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Old 02-17-16, 09:51 AM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by pdedes View Post
Wessex is a fictional town in Ontario, setting for "Dan for Mayor". The series was filmed in my hometown. I'm just under 5-10, proportions that are within 1SD of normal, and flexible through my hips with good core strength. It's a long TT, but compensated by a shorter than usual stem (100mm) and smaller than usual fork rake (40mm), so everything balances out. It's a racy fit, stretched out the way I like it. My original post has the bike against horizontal slats, you can see what the actual saddle-bar drop is.
Yea, but it was also a real region in the now UK in the late first and early second milleniae C.E. That is what I thought you were alludig to.
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Old 02-17-16, 09:57 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Yea, but it was also a real region in the now UK in the late first and early second milleniae C.E. That is what I thought you were alludig to.
It's also a fictional location in the UK used in Thomas Hardy's novels, which is what I was referring to (not the place in Canada!). Hardy's version is based on rural South West of England, mostly Dorset/Hampshire/Wiltshire (i.e. where I'm from, although I'm from a city, not a rural part).
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Old 02-17-16, 09:59 AM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
But flat black would make it more progressive and forward thinking.
No, but perhaps a bit less fugly.
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Old 02-17-16, 10:00 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
I mean to me, the threadless stem system is perhaps one of the greatest advancements in bicycle component designs ever because they are so easy and cheap to swap out, and stem length and bar height are central to dialing in a comfortable position, almost regardless of TT length. A truly elegant design IMO.
Don't forget to figure in stiffness. It's my opinion that the rigidity to weight ratio for the threadless system is the single most important factor as compared to quill setups.

Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
All true, except that the closer you can get to ideal (in all things), the better. What is ideal? Well first and foremost what the owner wants. But beyond that there are certain ideas about what is visually pleasing and there are also beliefs about what bikes setups are most functional. Stray too far from those and folks will let you know that there might have been a better approach. Right or wrong? No not really, just better or worse.
I think it's fair to say that what seems to be pleasing to a substantial segment of the cycling public is flat black everything with very high profile, black rims. Sort of makes me think of a 2 wheeled assault vehicle. And I think that look is fugly, to be quite frank. Give me a bike with color and a simplistic graphic scheme. This is, if only in small part, what this thread is about.
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Old 02-17-16, 10:04 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Aside from the fact that you can make more precise adjustments of bar height with a quill stem with a twist of one stem bolt and not have to cut steerer tubes and use spacers. I wouldn't call threadless much of an advancement. More of a PIA perhaps.
Not only that, but you could adjust the quill stem without have to worry about the pre-load on the headset bearings every time you did so. I like the look of threadless- but functionally, I think quills were far superior. And considering how infrequently one is likely to change handlebars, I don't see the big deal having to remove one brifter and the bar tape on one side to do so.
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Old 02-17-16, 10:04 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by dmcdam View Post
No, but perhaps a bit less fugly.
That was a bigoted and closed minded statement But what's fugly are all the flat black threadless stems with painted on logos that come on 98% of bikes today. Butt freaking ugly. Along with most bikes in general today. I wish a polished silver pantographed threadless stem fad would occur. Make them classy again.
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Old 02-17-16, 10:07 AM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Like I said before, the Venturi takes discussion where most bikes can't, and that is proof the Venturi is special. Yeah, we get a lot of misguided and ill-founded discussion, but it's not so hard to separate the wheat from the chaff, and see which ideas derive from ignorance and fear.

Fear...it's a funny attribute for a bike to engender in people, but clearly that's what's going on this mad scramble to find and justify every objection to the bike regardless of reason.

As amusing as it is-- and believe me, pining for quill stems is ****ing amusing!-- I'm getting a little anxious to move on from the Fantasy Fit Calculations and see what kind of frothy debate we can whip up over post-weld heat treating of the hydroformed tubing. Those are two more points distinguishing the Venturi, which is a World first, don't ya know!
Okay, I'll whisk the pot so to speak. Post-weld heat treating of the Breezer tubes is not a first. This technique has also been applied to Reynolds 953 tubes I believe since shortly after they were introduced, and which are sold either heat treated and aged or not. The former type makes cutting the tubes easier. But of course the hydroforming is really the unique aspect of the Breezer tubes.
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Old 02-17-16, 10:09 AM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
That was a bigoted and closed minded statement But what's fugly are all the flat black threadless stems with painted on logos that come on 98% of bikes today. Butt freaking ugly. Along with most bikes in general today. I wish a polished silver pantographed threadless stem fad would occur. Make them classy again.
Oh yeah. Pantographing, the king of processes and the process of kings. And while you are at it, drillium. Don't forget that.
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Old 02-17-16, 10:26 AM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Oh yeah. Pantographing, the king of processes and the process of kings. And while you are at it, drillium. Don't forget that.
That would be nice, but I doubt Chinese kids are trained in those skills.
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Old 02-17-16, 10:26 AM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Okay, I'll whisk the pot so to speak. Post-weld heat treating of the Breezer tubes is not a first. This technique has also been applied to Reynolds 953 tubes I believe since shortly after they were introduced, and which are sold either heat treated and aged or not. The former type makes cutting the tubes easier. But of course the hydroforming is really the unique aspect of the Breezer tubes.
PWHT refers to HT of the entire frame after it is completey welded, and I am not familiar with another steel road frame to undergo that process, so I think the Breezer is unique in that way, and additionally unique to do so with HF tubes.
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Old 02-17-16, 10:29 AM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
So far, so good.
Yes, it is not unreasonable that the bike should fit the person who actually has to ride it ... Hmmmm. Funny that this should even need to be mentioned, but well ... people are shall we say, varied, in their thought processes.
True, but incorrect ... let me explain. Yes, there are a Lot of people who will harass other people for "not looking right" whether it be hairstyle, fashion, bike setup, whatever. Bunch of crap,. Narrow-minded selfish herd-followers who live in fear of not conforming.

Some people like a french fit, and think exposed seatposts are bad. Some people like smaller frames and feel more maneuverable with a compact (and possibly marginally lighter) frame with a longer stem and post. Neither is more "functional" as both function just as well. It is purely a matter of personal taste, and some people get their tastes from the herd, while others from other places. Pretty much every new idea is crapped on ... until it is widely accepted. Ask Copernicus.

If some set-ups are truly non-functional, and a person were trying to help another person find a better-functioning set-up ... then looks wouldn't mean a thing. If the person wasn't getting full leg extension or was hyper-extending, if a person was stretching beyond his/her ability and losing power and experiencing pain ... then one might point out the proven "best practices" for riding a bike with maximum efficiency and minimal physical harm ... but whether that improved efficiency is achieved using a stack of spacers or a larger frame shouldn't matter. Get the control/contact surfaces in the proper relationship give n the specific rider's build and ability, that's all.
yeah that's true for sure: Stray from the norm and people will freak out on you ... it happened when the norm was slavery, or women having no rights, or when people wanted religious freedom ... These Must be terrible ideas because they stray from the norm.
Here's a thing: "Better" and "Worse" are gradients on a scale of "Right or Wrong." When someone says, "This way is better" s/he is saying, "This way is closer to 'Right" while your way is closer to "Wrong."

When it comes to the mechanics of cycling, the physiological and mechanical interfaces, such that a human body can exert energy efficiently for transportation using a bicycle without incurring injury, there is a "Right" and "Wrong," namely, using energy efficiently and not doing physical harm. Anything much beyond that is pure opinion---and people who think that buying a larger frame instead of using a lot of spacers and a lot of exposed seatpost are addressing personal aesthetics only.

Beyond that, each rider has a different place on the "Right/Wrong" scale of efficient/harmful. Some riders are more comfortable sitting bolt upright on a very padded seat and not ever extending their legs, sort of doing that "beach cruiser paddle." Their need for "efficiency" is overwhelmed by their desire for comfort, and they do not injure themselves because they don't reach for performance extremes. Therefore the set-up is perfect---they achieve exactly what they need.

Time-trialers versus road-racers vs. track racers vs. fat old guys riding for pleasure ... each will have a vastly different setup and each might be completely right for the discipline---even though the same set-up might be damaging or inefficient for a different discipline.

Cyclists are a highly prejudiced and hidebound lot, we are. We truly believe that there are better and worse ways to look while riding bikes, and that this makes a big difference to all cyclists everywhere. We tend to think in terms of tradition, and assume the folks in the past did it right (that works so well with so many disciplines right? Think of medicine, flight, space flight, cars, computers---the old guys did it right and we should emulate them, right? Oh, wait ... )

I have two really comfortable bikes, bikes which I can ride for several hours and enjoy tremendously. One is a 50-cm frame, one is about 58. A lot of people would criticize my set-up on either---stem is too long or too short or too steep or too many spacers, too much seatpost exposed, not enough seat-bar drop ... and They Would All Be Wrong, because I can ride either bike for several hours in comfort and with great joy---and That Is All That Matters.
My only argument with your treatise is that your definition of French Fit is synonymous with little to no seatpost extension. That was true when stock road bikes had horizontal top tubes and custom was not within reach for most folks. But French Fit is a fit, not a look. Nowadays you can have an oversize compact frame or a custom frame that provides French Fit without sacrificing more or less standard appearance including several inches of exposed post.

Also it may be true that herd following is not attractive, but norms are offen adhered to for no more despicable reason than they are sensible. In most cases that is how they got to be norms in the first place.
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Old 02-17-16, 10:34 AM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
That was a bigoted and closed minded statement But what's fugly are all the flat black threadless stems with painted on logos that come on 98% of bikes today. Butt freaking ugly. Along with most bikes in general today. I wish a polished silver pantographed threadless stem fad would occur. Make them classy again.
Not really pantographed, but more like this?
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Old 02-17-16, 10:34 AM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by Stucky View Post
Not only that, but you could adjust the quill stem without have to worry about the pre-load on the headset bearings every time you did so. I like the look of threadless- but functionally, I think quills were far superior. And considering how infrequently one is likely to change handlebars, I don't see the big deal having to remove one brifter and the bar tape on one side to do so.
How often does one need to adjust the height of their stem? I can't think of one time that I've wanted to do so.
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Old 02-17-16, 10:35 AM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post
It's also a fictional location in the UK used in Thomas Hardy's novels, which is what I was referring to (not the place in Canada!). Hardy's version is based on rural South West of England, mostly Dorset/Hampshire/Wiltshire (i.e. where I'm from, although I'm from a city, not a rural part).
It may be fictionalize by Thomas Hardy's novels, but it was a real place, exactly where you describe. Hence, Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex. And Bernard Cornwell's historical fiction, the Saxon Chronicles, placing fictional characters in Wessex at the time of the last Saxon Kingdom in England.
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Old 02-17-16, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Yea, but it was also a real region in the now UK in the late first and early second milleniae C.E. That is what I thought you were alludig to.
I always thought pdedes was a Brit, not a Canuck.
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Old 02-17-16, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
I always thought pdedes was a Brit, not a Canuck.
moi aussi
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Old 02-17-16, 11:09 AM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
That would be nice, but I doubt Chinese kids are trained in those skills.
I doubt you're right about that; with 1bn+ people, an economy driven by manufacturing, the custom of repurposing rather than retiring old equipment, and a long tradition of detailed artistry and precision crafting, I'd wager that most of the best pantograph operators are probably Chinese. I don't have any specific knowledge to support, but looking at the odds that a relatively backward Italy could have earned fame in rudimentary machining and milling thirty years ago compared to what China can do today, It sure looks to be in China's favor.
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Old 02-17-16, 11:19 AM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
I always thought pdedes was a Brit, not a Canuck.
That must have been the source of my error as well.
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Old 02-17-16, 11:26 AM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
PWHT refers to HT of the entire frame after it is completey welded, and I am not familiar with another steel road frame to undergo that process, so I think the Breezer is unique in that way, and additionally unique to do so with HF tubes.
I don't know for a fact, so I won't say. But Scooper recently posted information from Reynolds about supplying the 953 tubes both heat treated and not. I got the impression that any heat treating that was done by the builder was after complete assembly, not just after cutting, mitering, etc. I think my impression stems from a comment that some builders were more concerned about warpage than about the life of their cutting tools and therefore bought the heat treated tubes. Others weren't worried about that and performed the heat treating in house. After assembly or not is the question, but I came away from that discussion thinking that was the case. Warpage would be more of a problem after assembly than before, so that is what made sense to me.

But if you include hydroforming, Breezer wins the prize. No doubt about it.
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Old 02-17-16, 11:48 AM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
How often does one need to adjust the height of their stem? I can't think of one time that I've wanted to do so.
For my first 6 months or so of riding, I used to adjust might height a lot- trying out all sorts of things to see what I liked best; and kept lowering the bars as I became more flexible from riding. Or, when buying a used bike. With threadless, once that steerer's cut, there's no going back.

Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
I always thought pdedes was a Brit, not a Canuck.
So did i! It can be hard to tell sometimes- they both say "Tyres" and "Colour"- and I don't think I've seen Pdedes make any references to poutine....
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Old 02-17-16, 12:02 PM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
I don't know for a fact, so I won't say. But Scooper recently posted information from Reynolds about supplying the 953 tubes both heat treated and not. I got the impression that any heat treating that was done by the builder was after complete assembly, not just after cutting, mitering, etc. I think my impression stems from a comment that some builders were more concerned about warpage than about the life of their cutting tools and therefore bought the heat treated tubes. Others weren't worried about that and performed the heat treating in house. After assembly or not is the question, but I came away from that discussion thinking that was the case. Warpage would be more of a problem after assembly than before, so that is what made sense to me.

But if you include hydroforming, Breezer wins the prize. No doubt about it.
I see; I'll have to look into that. I also need to get my terms straight, like if there is any distinction to be made between "heat treating," "annealing," "aging," and "tempering." I thin heat treatment is really the blanket term for the other processes, but I'm not sure. Of course some tubes are heat treated prior to assembly, and some tubes call for slower cooling of the weld zone (HAZ), so I've seen a torch run over that area to do just that, but I'm not sure if that's considered some form of heat treatment. The "artificial aging" of aluminum frames is more commonly called annealing (I think), for hardness, rather than heat treating, so I'm kinda confused as to what exactly is what!
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Old 02-17-16, 12:29 PM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post
Not really pantographed, but more like this?

FTW. Of course it doesn't have a removeable face plate, but at only $190, you can't have everything.

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Old 02-17-16, 12:58 PM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by Stucky View Post
For my first 6 months or so of riding, I used to adjust might height a lot- trying out all sorts of things to see what I liked best; and kept lowering the bars as I became more flexible from riding.
So threaded headsets are great for newbs that don't know what works best for them.
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