topslop1

I'm 6' 1.5'' in height and I bought a used 58cm Synapse Alloy 105 2013 off of craigslist here locally. I've been toying around with the seat position, stem, and handlebar angle to get a good fit for me. The seat is 'max' forward as indicated by the measurement system on the metal rails under the seat. I'm resisting angling my handlebars up.

Here's the deal:

When I come forward onto the hoods I am what seems like an inch or two short of being right on/ in the hoods.

When I reach out for the hoods my elbows are almost straight / I am putting a little bit of pressure on my hands to hold me up / and sometimes my ass feels like it could go back on the seat a bit further.

I feel as though I am right over the pedals and I don't want to move my seat forward past what is shown on the adjustment indicator.

My seat post is maybe 3.5'' out of the top of the seat post tube.


Do I have a slighter longer lower body than upper body? Should I just ride more in hopes that my flexibility takes care of this? My worst fear (did I buy too big a bike and would a 56 probably fit me better?) I mention the 3.5'' seat post because if I translated that over to a 56cm wouldn't I have a real tall seat post / seat post almost fully extended? Or not quite?

I'm tempted to film a short segment of me on the bike and see what the deal is. In trying to not go with too short a stem I ordered a 90mm (only 10mm) down from the one that is currently on the bike.

PepeM

There are seatposts with setback, so you could get one without it (assuming you have one with setback.) But you say you don't want to move your saddle forward. Shorter stem might be a solution. Or not. You should really pay a fitter a few bucks to get you dialed in, not doing so will end up costing you more, both in time and money.

topslop1

You know what, you're absolutely right. I can get a basic fit for $75? And then a complete for $300 or something ridiculous. I'd be much more comfortable with paying $75 for one. I'm on it.

PepeM

I paid $50 for mine a year or so ago (I was having a minor knee ache.) He basically changed everything: saddle height, saddle fore/aft, stem position, bar position, cleat placement. Never had any issue since. Since then I have been back a couple times for minor adjustments (once I changed saddle and crank length so, second want I wanted to get slammed) and he didn't charge me anything. Best cycling related money I've spent (after the bicycle, of course.)

topslop1

sounds amazing. Now I need to find a guy area specific to Albany/Sarataoga Springs NY that won't charge an arm and a leg.

McBTC

Sounds like the right size bike or at least in the range. I'd suggest putting the seat wherever it seems to be required as far as your pedal stroke. Then, you can work with the rest of the bike to accommodate your desired riding position, that being the stem: you need to raise it or shorten it or both until you feel comfortable.

Kopsis

That's good because you aren't supposed to use saddle fore/aft position to adjust reach. Once you have saddle position set for power/weight distribution, then you adjust reach by changing the stem length and/or moving the bars up/down (by adding removing spacers under the stem). Moving the bars up also moves them back a bit so you might try that first. If that doesn't get the hoods into a comfortable position, then you probably want to get a shorter stem.

A fitter can definitely help you dial this in, though in some places the "basic" fit doesn't cover anything more than setting saddle height and setback. It's not hard to guesstimate how much reach adjustment you need by looking where your hands naturally fall vs. where the hoods are now. Your LBS likely has a bin full of stems and will let you try out different sizes if you agree to buy the one that works.

Maelochs

When I get home I will look up the link to an excellent bike-fit site--might be Competitive Cycles. Whether you get a pro fIt for your current bike or not it is good to have comprehensive measurements---- Try this: Bike Fit Calculator | Find Your Bike Size | Competitive Cyclist

rpenmanparker 

You haven't mentioned the stem length. Is it very long? Your torso and/or arms may be very short for your height. Never use saddle position to adjust reach. Start with KOPS (knee over pedal spindle, look it up) and adjust saddle position from there according to comfort, power output ability, etc. After you get your saddle right, you have to adjust reach solely by stem length and up or down position.

Maelochs

I agree 100 percent here. This is the most important relationship and it will not change no matter if you like to ride bent over or bolt upright or anywhere in between. Don't go by the markings ion the seat or anything else---set your saddle for what fits your body and leave it there (well, almost certainly you will make minute adjustments until you get it just right, but basically ... )

Pay no attention to whether you can even reach the bars. ignore everything except where the saddle sits in relation to the bottom bracket and pedal at the front of its rotation. Change everything else to suit that.

If the saddle is all the way forward you might need a seat post with zero setback or your frame is too long for you, or your stem is too long. But don't set the saddle to make riding the wrong frame less painful; that will only cause damage to things like knees, which are easy to hurt and hard to heal.

I am about the same size but have limbs longer than my entire height and my torso is smaller than my head (which is the only normal part of my anatomy) so I tend to have to ride a smaller frame than my height would suggest.

58 cm would suit most riders about your height ... I find I often need to go down a size because the top tube is too long on a bike designed for "someone of my height."

topslop1

Stem is a standard 100cm I believe. Guy who had the bike before me was 6'4'' and was up sizing to a bigger bicycle. My thoughts are a 90cm stem, a slight raise, and then setting up that KOP will put me at least a bit closer to what I need. I'm resisting at least initially the idea of putting a 70cm stem on there as I think that would indicate that I'd be better off with a 56cm bicycle as a whole.

Maelochs

Whatever stem you use doesn't change the fact that you should probably be riding a 56.

Probably you can make this one fit if you try.

topslop1

Kicker being that I spent a good deal of time searching for a 58 after reading online. Anyhow, I will be very curious to see what the online calculator fit says so I have a basis of whether or not I'm crazy or not.

rms13

I agree you should probably be on a 56 but getting zero setback seat post and shorter stem should make it ok

topslop1

https://gyazo.com/56cd6f3713f69f1f382f1d9d0bbfe88e

Actual Inseam

33.5 In

Trunk

23 In

Forearm

15 In

Arm

27 In

Thigh

24 In

Lower Leg

22 In

Sternal Notch

58 In

Total Height

73.5 In

DrIsotope

Comparing your measurements to mine (I'm 6'2") you have 1.5" less leg and 1.5" (apparently) more neck/head, which is odd for me to try to imagine. Also, your arms are 5" shorter than mine. How do you reach your pockets? Assuming both of our measurements are correct (I ride a 61cm with about 7" of seatpost showing) then that 90mm stem might not be short enough. If the seat is all the way forward on the rails, consider a zero offset post.

I can't get my head around the arm thing-- would you happen to know what size dress shirt you wear? I'm really curious as to the sleeve length. I wear a 37" sleeve (which I've always called Orangutan arms.)

topslop1

Sorry, I used the competitive cyclist fit to measure the arms which told me to do from my shoulder to the middle of my palm basically. Measuring from shoulder to end of fingers I'm 32.5'' in length so still significantly shorter than yours.

The eddy fit:
Top Tube Length

55.6 - 56 Cm

Seat Tube Range CC

56.3 - 56.8 Cm

Seat Tube Range CT

58 - 58.5 Cm

Stem Length

10.1 - 10.7 Cm

BB Saddle Position

75.4 - 77.4 Cm

Saddle Handlebar

55.1 - 55.7 Cm

Saddle Setback

6.6 - 7 Cm

Seatpost Type

Setback

top tube length determines the measurement that is featured on all bikes correct? This fit after taking my measurements into consideration suggesting a 56cm bike?

Campag4life

OP,
How did you measure your inseam length?
Here's the deal. Very few...maybe a handful of world class riders should be on a 56 no matter what their proportions at just over 6'1" which is my height btw.
Reason is two fold:
One, if you are all legs which apparently you aren't...I have a 35.25" cycling inseam, you will need a 58 for the head tube length so that you don't run too much saddle to handlebar drop.
Two, if you are all torso which seems to be the case, you will need the 58 for the top tube length.

A 56 is for an average sized guy and guys our size are a bit bigger than average.

As to dialing in your fit, if you can't figure this out by trial an error, get fit by a pro.

Good luck

FLvector

My first bike was a Cannondale Caad 8 56cm purchased used on CL. I'm 6'1". I had the opposite problem of feeling too cramped and ended up with a 130mm stem which helped. My next bike was a 58cm which fit much better. It was just a matter of dialing it in for the best fit. With that bike I also spent the money to get a fit which helped immensely. My most recent bike was set to the same position, but I've changed stack height and saddle height a bit to continue to dial things in. Once you get the fit you will feel more confident that you're on the right size bike and you'll be able to make minor changes on your own. Your fit can change with your fitness over time.

Maelochs

If topslop1 is all torso/short limbs, he probably has the seat forward to reach the pedals, and doesn't want to ride too bent over, but feels his weight is too forward (seat too far forward.)

The whole idea that a person a certain size needs a certain frame size is akin to saying a person a certain size needs to wear a certain size of pants. Take three guys who are six feet tall, with inseams of 32, 34, and 35 inches, but waists of 34, 39, and 46 inches ... One Size Fits All?

If one size fit all, then when I went from 185 to 265 lbs I didn't have needed to buy a new wardrobe. What a waste of money. How was I to know (not having been a BF member) that all the old clothes still fit---even though I was physically unable to put them on my body?

I'd say, if one follows the Competitive Cyclist measuring scheme very carefully, one can get some useful data. I tired it, and also measured all of my bikes, and found that for me at least, what Competitive Cyclist recommended actually matched what seemed to work for me in the real world. That is why I recommend it. But it takes very accurate measurements using the methods described on the site, and I still cannot guarantee that it working for me was not a complete fluke,.. The system could be total trash, and I just was the one in 7 billion for whom it fit.

topslop1, I heartily recommend ignoring all the "This size Should fit" advice from people who have never met you and question your measurements. Make sure you measure accurately, and see what you get---knowing it is just a guideline.

Get on your bike, set up the saddle so your are Approximately KOPS with a slight bend in your leg at full extension, and go from there.

Everyone has different proportions, different flexibility, and a different preferred riding position. basically, if it doesn't feel right it probably isn't---For You.

When you get it right, three to four hours on the bike shouldn't be an issue (except for people like me with a weak core---I need a five-minute break after about three hours to unkink my back---but it used to be two hours or less---I am getting stronger.) If you don't feel good on the bike right away, and still after an hour ... start looking at where it hurts and what you might want to change.

Probably you can dial in the existing frame with a few parts swaps. if not ....

Sell the bike and buy one a size smaller, that beats riding less and less because it is less and less fun because the fit always reminds you that you got it wrong. Chalk it up to the price of education and after your first couple rides on a bike which really fits you you won't care what it cost.

FLvector

Weight gain is a poor analogy that doesn't translate to bike fit.

Wtf? Get a bike fit from a qualified fitter and let them guide you. It will take the mystery out of the process. Take all the advice on BF with a grain of salt.

Maelochs

read and then consider ... this leads to ... Comprehension.

The post wasn't about weight gain but about the idea the One Size Fits All. You might notice that phrase there, all in caps. That's a clue.

You know, people Used to ride bikes, back in the dinosaur days, Without dropping a few hundred on a "Fitting."

A good fitting---one with the whole laser/video setup--can do amazing things for a Really serious rider. The really expensive fittings address tiny physiological differences, and get down as small as adding shims under the cleats to address for differences fro leg to leg. Pretty trick---IF the bike already fits.

Basic bike fit is something every cyclist can learn him- or herself. Because basically, if it isn't comfortable, it doesn't fit.

There is a ton of stuff on the Internet, and while some of it might be contradictory, smart folks can still learn a lot, and can figure out for themselves how to fit on a bike. This guy obviously hadn't done much research (unfamiliar with KOPS concept, for instance.)

I think fit is really important. Hence my linking to the Fit Calculator site. if the OP requests, I will go further and send him to the Fit Forum on this board. If he still needs help, I will go over any questions he has----not that I am an expert, but Bike Fit----like most stuff in life ---isn't Rocket Science. A little research and a little logic and it can be learned. That's how serious I am about the advice I give here.

If you think getting a fitting is so important, send the guy a check for a fitting. Let's see how serious you are.

I agree BF advice can be BS, yours included. Here we can actually take the step from random internet advice to being helpful. I am sure he will accept my guidance the Fit Forum. Is his check in the mail?

ptempel

OP, just get a decent pro bike fit with the Synapse. Then you can decide later on if you want to change it or not. I'm pretty close to your size but currently prefer 56cm to 57cm virtual top tube. So that's not far off from the 58cm VTT on your Cannondale. You can just get a shorter stem to dial in the bar position. Maybe a 10cm or 11cm stem might do the trick? But the bike fit is critical and I was glad I did it albeit several years ago. Enjoy the bike and let us know how the fit went for you.

Maelochs

He's at 100 and contemplating 70---which I would tend to strongly advise. OP also look at stem angle and spacers. A stem with a steeper upward angle effectively moves the bars closer to the rider (lessens seat-bar drop) and spacers under the stem do the same.

Dangers of getting a pro-fit---if the bike you have doesn't fit you it is wasted money, and if the guy doing the fit wants you to buy a new bike at the shop where he works ....

It depends. I have heard too many stories about getting fit at an LBS---magically whatever bike they have in stock fits, imagine that! if it is an independent fitter operating out of a shop, then probably he doesn't receive compensation for gear he recommends the fittee buy---but good will is good will as well.

If I were you (and I mean this---not giving you advice but saying what I would do) I would test ride some bikes, measure every tube on my bike, plus stack and reach, plus center saddle (where the seat post tube hits the saddle) to stem front and stem back, and BB to center saddle. I would draw a little sketch of a frame (can be really crude) and pencil in the actual measurements, plus the CompCycling recommendations, and compare.

I would set up the bike with about KOPS (doesn't have to be millimeter perfect) and see how that worked---not whether i felt stretched, but whether I felt planted in the saddle and secure there, whether I felt I could push hard and climb and cruise (When I set up my Raleigh, I found that when I really pushed i was sliding back too far in the saddle and needed a set-back seat post---even though it felt just fine cruising around the block. I needed to stress-test it.)

Once I knew I was happy with saddle height and fore-aft placement, I would look at the rest of the bike, remeasure everything, and again compare. If you have friends who ride similar sized bikes, check them out. If not, go to an LBS and tell them you might be looking for a new bike (don't say you are---you really don't know yet) and test a couple---test a smaller model of yours if you can, or look up whatever they sell online and get the frame geometry and compare it to the frame geometry of your current bike.

Eventually you should find what fits You---not what Should fit, or what someone else says should fit.

When you are sure you have pretty much the bike you want (whether your current or a new one) and pretty much know your comfortable riding posture---Then consider an expensive pro fitting perhaps, so that the fitter can make the minute changes in saddle angle, or find a better saddle, or a slightly different stem ...

A pro fitter probably has a mock-up bike which adjusts in every direction. The stem will tilt and stretch and rise and drop ... everything would be adjustable.

Even then, until you have done a few hours on the road, you won't know, and a saddle might take a few hundred miles to break in.

Not "advising" you to do anything, because as the guy said, BF advice is some BS. But I know what has worked for me. I can ride about four hours with zero problems (except the weak lower back.) When I was fit, I could ride all day. I just learned over time to set up a bike to suit me.

A fitter might save you some time. You might still end up changing a bunch of stuff over time. But I wouldn't get a fitting until I knew for sure I was getting fitted to the bike I planned to keep for a good long while.

FLvector

OP - before you go shopping for another bike, first determine if the bike you currently have will work for you. Why waste you time starting all over and getting multiple conflicting opinions on what size fits best? Find a good fitter that isn't motivated to sell you another bike and take their advice. You can get some terrible advice from bike shops that are motivated to sell you whatever size they have on the floor. I've seen it happen. Once the fitter confirms your bike is or isn't the correct size, then you can move forward. Sometimes the most expensive advice is the free bs you read here with someone guiding you down the wrong path. Let us know how the fit goes.