caloso

Try bending your elbows more. You may be surprised.

NYMXer

This is a debate that can go on for centuries an you will never get people to agree on what to do, if anything. I'm assuming that you have ridden with this friend many times and feel performance compatible w him.
So, do some easy adjustments like cleaning your chain, swapping tires and riding more aero (in the drops). Over 18 mph, aero really makes a significant difference. Use your energy on the inclines and conserve on the declines.

Carbonfiberboy 

I really wouldn't worry about doing scientific analysis and changing one variable at a time. You want to get faster? Do everything better. Yes, GP4000s II tires. If pavement is smooth, 25mm and pump 'em up to sidewall max. On the trainer, work on putting out watts in aero position. Your watts can drop some from hoods position and you'll still be faster, but work on lowering your shoulders and straightening your back. Belly button toward the top tube. If your thighs are hitting your stomach, lose some belly fat. Practice pedaling knees in. That's worth more than a set of $3000 aero wheels. Then work on your power distribution. It's faster to go harder on the climbs, easier on the flats and descents. If he's riding you off his wheel, stick to it until the blood spurts from your eyesockets. Which brings up the idea of doing more anaerobic intervals, 4 X 8' once a week.

HiBoost

Thanks again for all the responses. Re: NP, mine was 266w for that segment but I'm not sure what his was. He's not a Golden Cheetah nerd like me so I have to do without certain things lol. Clearly I need to improve my position on the bike, but at 41 years old and after 20+ years of sitting in a chair all day every day (computer programmer) I'm nowhere near as flexible as I'd like.

Re: how bad I want it, well, I'm the type that gets into things and goes all in, but gets bored and moves on to something else if progress stagnates. I was 174lbs and 11% fat from age 18 to 36. Never worked out, ate whatever. Too high strung to gain weight I think. Sick of all the "you're going to blow away in a strong wind" jokes I starting working out and got to 215 pounds over about 3 years. Was a pretty night and day transformation, visually, but didn't like how it made me feel - basically just tired all the time. And I was having to eat like crazy - like 1000 calorie peanut butter shakes - just to keep the muscle from melting away. So I got bored, moved on and sure enough melted back down to 188 or so. In Oct I got interested in training for the first time on a bike (vs just "going for rides") so I bought a power meter and did the initial Stages 8 weeks power program. Initial FTP was 185. I think I can safely say that when your FTP == your weight, you suck LOL. Anyway, at the end of the 8 weeks my FTP was 237 and I felt like that was a good result. I then started on the Carmichael time-crunched plan and I'm on week 7 now. Will be curious to see what my FTP is at the end of this, but I'm guessing it'll be around 250 based on various interval results I'm seeing along the way. I honestly have no idea what to expect going forward. Will I hit a wall or can I just keep ratcheting up slowly but surely? Part of me believes a person should always be able to add "1 more watt" but I know that's not the case given time to train, nutrition, age, etc.

Anyway, probably more than anybody wanted to read but basically just wanted to say thanks and address some of the comments made.

RChung

Pop your ride data into Aerolab. If your Stages is reading reasonably okay, I'm guessing your CdA is in the ballpark of upper 0.4x m^2. That means you're a parachute. Your friend isn't.

Bah Humbug

This is not an either/or; life is too short to ride Gatorskins. Get the GP4KSIIs, also train your FTP higher. Also fix your position (work on flexibility and ride in the drops, at least on the downhills). Do all of this and report back how you dropped your friend.

GeoKrpan

WHERE is he pulling away from you? On the uphills? Downhills? Both?

Psimet2001 

Riding isn't about numbers for the reason you just encountered. Ride your bike. If your friend pulls away then he's faster. If you want to be faster than your friend then ride with people faster than your friend. Strava isn't going to do it. Your tires aren't going to do it. Riding with others that are faster will. Always.

therhodeo

This.

RChung

Not this.

Campag4life

This or not this...this is the question.

rmfnla

You don't say what color the bikes are.

If his is red and yours is not he will always be faster...

GeoKrpan

And....someone on BF recently commented that riding alone using Strava was better training than a pack ride. Haw!

HiBoost

I have to disagree with that. Sure you can just go ride and have fun, nothing wrong with that. But training without numbers is a severe handicap. I've seen several of the biggest names in cycling coaching say that they won't even coach a rider if he doesn't have a power meter. And that the power meter is the single most important part on the bike, precisely because it allows for targeted, numbers-based training. And back to my initial post, nobody should take my comments to mean that I don't plan to continue to push myself as hard as I can. I just like to compartmentalize things. There's one list of things I need to do to improve my legs and cardio, another list of things I need to do to improve my form on the bike, another list of things to make my bike more efficient, etc... when it all comes together it is what it is, but you can certainly target the individual pieces for improvement. Saying tires and gear aren't going to help implies Froome could win the Tour on a fat bike. Obviously the rider is the most important piece, but certainly not the only one.

GeoKrpan

Numbers from electronic devices would not motivate me much. But the pride of hanging with a fast pack or the humiliation of getting dropped are powerful motivators.

HiBoost

Sure, and if you have the luxury of having such a group at your disposal at all times then you are a lucky man. But I did 72 rides this winter on the trainer alone in my garage with nothing but numbers to keep me focused and motivated and I emerged in the spring a far stronger rider. And now as spring arrives and I move into real rides with real riders I still rely heavily on the numbers to know how *I* am doing. If I'm killing everyone and but not seeing anything extraordinary on my display then I know I'm riding with bums and I need not pat myself on the back. Or, if I'm getting crushed but managed to pull an extra 10w over 20 minutes and set a new PR then I feel like I really accomplished something. To me, unless I was an elite pro, gauging myself against others is only worth so much and almost certainly not the best way to optimize my own training. But everyone is different. I'm a nerd and nerds like numbers

GeoKrpan

Thanks. I do have the luxury of plentiful pack rides, and, I live in SoCal. Sorry you have to ride in a garage!

I do feel cynical about people who live here and only do Strava. It's sorta' like the people at the coffee shop who's heads are buried in some sort of electronic gadget and ignore everyone around them.

Doge

I know you qualified it, but the kids love Strava - and do both. I may be alone in my opinion Strava brings more satisfaction than local race winning. On a race day only a few of your "friends" show up, but on Strava that marker is semi-permanent.

HiBoost

Maybe some people "do strava" differently than I do. I don't have a clue about anything related to strava or cheetah until hours after the ride when I'm sipping an IPA sitting on my couch. So it doesn't detract from the ride experience, just gives me an opportunity to relive it in a different way after the fact.

IronHorseRiderX

I think this will be interesting.
This really works https://www.bestbikesplit.com/
I got stuck recently around 54:30min with ~305W @ 67..68kg on my target segment:
https://www.strava.com/activities/449141771#10796842235 54:33 / 308W
https://www.strava.com/activities/583415096#14188836968 54:39 / 301W

Here's my best using https://www.bestbikesplit.com/public/43490 bike split
https://www.strava.com/activities/699444597#17151869752 53:57 / 295

Half a minute faster with ~10W less

Basically you go easier on flats and hammer hard on climbs (steeper parts of climbs in my case).

I'v done at least doze rides using that split approach and it leads to better times with less power.
Overall power drops a bit, not sure why but my guess it would be because in this particular case you have to do negative split and so go really hard on the second part.
While I had not problems in the past doing 315W/295W splits all the time I can not do negative one like 290W/310W , just physically unable to raise power on the second half of the hour that high.

Hope this will help

seypat

Just make sure your friend knows "it's on." Not really a competition if only one is taking it that way.

Dan333SP

Damn, 315W for over 30 min that first ride. Very nice. Diablo looks like a real b#$% of a climb.

HiBoost

Thanks for posting, I had not seen that site/service yet!

99Klein 

It probably has a lot to do with tires. Gatorskins are very slow rolling tires.

Vicegrip

^No kidding. The only thing to look forward to with Gatorskins in being able to say "I did not get a flat tire in the last 30 seconds" over and over. (until you get a flat) someone described them as feeling like "Old cheap green vinyl garden hose on a cold day" and that was spot on IMO.

Ditch the gators. Ride the ride a few times and report back.