Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Campagnolo launch Potenza 11 Speed group

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Campagnolo launch Potenza 11 Speed group

Old 03-17-16, 11:18 AM
  #51  
garciawork
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Meridian, ID
Posts: 1,353

Bikes: Mikkelsen custom steel, Santa Cruz Chameleon SS, old trek trainer bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
As was said, Potenza is completely different internally from either Athena or Chorus, but I think what you're trying to say is that the shifter function is the same as Powershift in terms of not being able to dump multiple gears with a single lever throw.
I must have missed that in the articles, isn't the new group powershift, basically? Or is this a third option of theirs, only with the same ability as powershift?
garciawork is offline  
Old 03-17-16, 11:19 AM
  #52  
chaadster
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,700

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1690 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times in 447 Posts
Originally Posted by KBentley57 View Post
Admittedly, I only really look for shimano's group pricing to make sure I don't miss a great deal, but I've never seen Chorus even close to Ultegra's pricing. If you can show me where, I'd be curious to check it out.
I've never seen that either, and would be happy to know the same. Athena is also pricier than Ultegra most everywhere I've seen it.
chaadster is offline  
Old 03-17-16, 11:30 AM
  #53  
rjones28 
Mostly Harmless
 
rjones28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chittenango, NY
Posts: 51,513

Bikes: Have two wheels

Mentioned: 167 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10028 Post(s)
Liked 1,860 Times in 1,150 Posts
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
A 1/8 inch KMC 710 track chain will break a cheap chain tool.
Don't use cheap tools.
__________________
Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
If this thread doesn't go 10 pages I'm quitting BF.
rjones28 is offline  
Old 03-17-16, 11:32 AM
  #54  
PixelPaul
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Athena is also pricier than Ultegra most everywhere I've seen it.
Ribble (my go to place for all things Campy) has Ultegra for $539 and Athena for $479 today.
PixelPaul is offline  
Old 03-17-16, 11:33 AM
  #55  
chaadster
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,700

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1690 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times in 447 Posts
Originally Posted by garciawork View Post
I must have missed that in the articles, isn't the new group powershift, basically? Or is this a third option of theirs, only with the same ability as powershift?
The shift function at the lever is the same as Powershift, it seems, in the regard I mentioned, but yes, it is a third 11spd shifter system in design.
chaadster is offline  
Old 03-17-16, 11:36 AM
  #56  
garciawork
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Meridian, ID
Posts: 1,353

Bikes: Mikkelsen custom steel, Santa Cruz Chameleon SS, old trek trainer bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
The shift function at the lever is the same as Powershift, it seems, in the regard I mentioned, but yes, it is a third 11spd shifter system in design.
Well, then I understand it even less. Coming out with a third 11 sp shifting system, that performs the same as the one closer in price to Ultegra already, but make the new one pricier... doesn't compute to me. But, whatever. I am excited about Campy disc brakes though...
garciawork is offline  
Old 03-17-16, 11:46 AM
  #57  
chaadster
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,700

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1690 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times in 447 Posts
Originally Posted by PixelPaul View Post
Ribble (my go to place for all things Campy) has Ultegra for $539 and Athena for $479 today.
Ah, right, thanks...I always think in terms of Athena Carbon, which I was not specific about, and which may not be the right standard to use, even. As I said before, though, it is lighter and better looking than Ultegra in that trim level.
chaadster is offline  
Old 03-17-16, 11:51 AM
  #58  
chaadster
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,700

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1690 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times in 447 Posts
Originally Posted by garciawork View Post
Well, then I understand it even less. Coming out with a third 11 sp shifting system, that performs the same as the one closer in price to Ultegra already, but make the new one pricier... doesn't compute to me. But, whatever. I am excited about Campy disc brakes though...
I would imagine the strategy is to have a higher retail price than OEM price as an incentive to manufacturers to equip their bikes with it, because it will elevate the perceived value.

Whether Campy can control the distribution chain to affect that, I don't know.
chaadster is offline  
Old 03-17-16, 11:54 AM
  #59  
garciawork
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Meridian, ID
Posts: 1,353

Bikes: Mikkelsen custom steel, Santa Cruz Chameleon SS, old trek trainer bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I would imagine the strategy is to have a higher retail price than OEM price as an incentive to manufacturers to equip their bikes with it, because it will elevate the perceived value.

Whether Campy can control the distribution chain to affect that, I don't know.
That would make sense, but is there anyone with a campy equipped stock bike these days? The last time I remember seeing one was a steel raleigh a couple years ago. Good looking bike but... shocker, it seemed overpriced for a steel bike with athena v all of the other options.
garciawork is offline  
Old 03-17-16, 12:37 PM
  #60  
Marcus_Ti 
FLIR Kitten to 0.05C
 
Marcus_Ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,331

Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2347 Post(s)
Liked 399 Times in 250 Posts
Originally Posted by garciawork View Post
That would make sense, but is there anyone with a campy equipped stock bike these days? The last time I remember seeing one was a steel raleigh a couple years ago. Good looking bike but... shocker, it seemed overpriced for a steel bike with athena v all of the other options.
Bianchi does. I think Pino might too.
Marcus_Ti is offline  
Old 03-17-16, 05:08 PM
  #61  
chaadster
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,700

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1690 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times in 447 Posts
Originally Posted by garciawork View Post
That would make sense, but is there anyone with a campy equipped stock bike these days? The last time I remember seeing one was a steel raleigh a couple years ago. Good looking bike but... shocker, it seemed overpriced for a steel bike with athena v all of the other options.
Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Bianchi does. I think Pino might too.
I think there are many OEM equipped bikes, especially in the EU market, but as Campagnolo is cited as saying, they want this group to expand OEM placements.

I think Campagnolo have a lot to win if they can pull this off, and not so much to lose. The brand's association with premium quality componentry is strong, and become more common in the USD$4k segment is not exactly going "down market"; that's still pretty rarified territory given the bicycle market on the whole.

People fret about brands being diminished by offering lower priced lines, but I don't see that's how it works. From cars, to clothes, to watches, to wine, in the cases I can think of, expanding market share has not had deleterious effect on prestige or market value.
chaadster is offline  
Old 03-17-16, 08:53 PM
  #62  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,191
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2824 Post(s)
Liked 1,374 Times in 812 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
People fret about brands being diminished by offering lower priced lines, but I don't see that's how it works. From cars, to clothes, to watches, to wine, in the cases I can think of, expanding market share has not had deleterious effect on prestige or market value.
What about schwinn or anyone else who tried to do a big box and lbs line of bikes (mongoose, et al.)?
himespau is offline  
Old 03-17-16, 09:06 PM
  #63  
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6554 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I think there are many OEM equipped bikes, especially in the EU market, but as Campagnolo is cited as saying, they want this group to expand OEM placements.

I think Campagnolo have a lot to win if they can pull this off, and not so much to lose. The brand's association with premium quality componentry is strong, and become more common in the USD$4k segment is not exactly going "down market"; that's still pretty rarified territory given the bicycle market on the whole.

People fret about brands being diminished by offering lower priced lines, but I don't see that's how it works. From cars, to clothes, to watches, to wine, in the cases I can think of, expanding market share has not had deleterious effect on prestige or market value.
My comment about the Campy brand being diminished by Potenza was not about a lower priced line, but rather about fugliness. And the unpleasant mixture of black and silver. And the weight. And such.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 03-18-16, 05:13 AM
  #64  
kbarch
Senior Member
 
kbarch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,286
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1096 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
My comment about the Campy brand being diminished by Potenza was not about a lower priced line, but rather about fugliness. And the unpleasant mixture of black and silver. And the weight. And such.
With all the negative reaction to it's appearance, I was wondering if I was missing something. But perhaps not - the bold silver/black mix is what I find especially attractive.
kbarch is offline  
Old 03-18-16, 05:24 AM
  #65  
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6554 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by kbarch View Post
With all the negative reaction to it's appearance, I was wondering if I was missing something. But perhaps not - the bold silver/black mix is what I find especially attractive.
Fair enough. I should have ended my post with YMMV.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 03-18-16, 06:58 AM
  #66  
chaadster
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,700

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1690 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times in 447 Posts
Originally Posted by himespau View Post
What about schwinn or anyone else who tried to do a big box and lbs line of bikes (mongoose, et al.)?
I wouldn't consider those valid comparisons for several reasons.

First, neither of those brands were prestige brands by the time they moved into box store distribution, and they certainly didn't enjoy the level of prestige Campagnolo has.

By going "big box outlet," Schwinn and Mongoose moved to the very bottom of the market, price-wise. Campagnolo is seeking to have Potenza spec'd on $4k bikes, which is still pretty elite territory, and closer to the top end than any other segment of the bike market.

Also, both Schwinn and Mongoose totally abandoned the premium segment, and had no countervailing image to the box store image, so surrending any claim as a prestige brand. Campagnolo will continue to represent themselves as a prestige brand at the very top of component quality, performance, innovation, and cost, and has promoted Potenza as a trickle-down product from Super Record, which still sets the standard for the company.

So for all of those reasons, I don't think there is any useful relationship between Schwinn and Mongoose with Campagnolo. Rather, I'd suggest looking at other premium, luxury, and prestige brands' "market broadening" efforts as proof of concept. For example, Porsche did not suffer loss of prestige for 924, nor did Missoni for the "Missoni for Target" line, nor Sassicaia for Guidalberto and La Difese, nor Rolex for Tudor.

As I said before, I can't think of an example where a luxury prestige brand lost prestige by expanding into more affordable offerings. Even in the case of Cimarron by Cadillac of '81, where other issues were working to devalue the Cadillac brand besides this down-market model, Cadillac has become as much a prestige brand today as it has been since its heyday in the post-war period. Ironically, it's success has not been spearheaded by it's most expensive models, but by a "trickle-up" effect from its focus on entry-level C-series cars back up through the big cars. But still, unlike Schwinn, Cadillac and Campagnolo never troll the bottom of the market.
chaadster is offline  
Old 03-18-16, 07:39 AM
  #67  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,191
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2824 Post(s)
Liked 1,374 Times in 812 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
nor did Missoni for the "Missoni for Target" line, nor Sassicaia for Guidalberto and La Difese, nor Rolex for Tudor.
I suppose this is a better comparison. I will say that I do have bought a fair number of used dress clothes (college teacher on a limited budget but required to dress "nice"). I steer well clear of certain brands after learning the hard way that they don't differentiate via their labels between items they sell in their main stores and lower quality items they make specifically to sell at their outlet stores. On the other hand, what I buy on eBay or at Goodwill has no impact on their bottom line, so they couldn't care less what I think about their business practices.
himespau is offline  
Old 03-31-16, 12:52 PM
  #68  
mapeiboy
Senior Member
 
mapeiboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto , Ontario , Canada
Posts: 542

Bikes: Colnago EP with Campy chorus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
I said chain pin peening tool. Official Campagnolo procedure is to uninstall with a chain tool, and then use the official 11-speed chain peening tool to complete the new chain installation. 2 separate tools.

Using a KMC master link will void the warrantee and invalidate the fundamental laws of the universe.
You don't need 2 separate tools for the Campagnolo 11 speed chain . You can use the Campagnolo 11 speed chain tool to uninstall/install the chain .
mapeiboy is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
CyclingFool95
For Sale
0
06-20-19 08:00 AM
Barrettscv
Classic & Vintage
9
09-07-18 05:13 PM
Syscrush
Bicycle Mechanics
36
07-19-16 11:28 AM
littlebeetle
Road Cycling
2
12-03-14 11:54 PM
sloar
Classic & Vintage
28
02-12-14 11:24 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.