CeeDotA

Is the shifting quality that noticeably different from 105 to Ultegra? I'm riding 105 currently and I love it. When I build up my tri bike, it comes equipped with 105 and I'm thinking of upgrading the derailleurs to Ultegra. But if the quality isn't that noticeably different I guess why bother spending the money?

Of the 105 parts the bike comes with there's only a 122gm difference between the Ultegra equivalents.

Andy_K 

I don't mean to pick on you personally, but the "I-can-lock-the-wheels" argument in discussions about brake quality is one of my pet peeves. I could lock the wheels on a '68 Dodge Charger with drum brakes, but that doesn't mean they were good brakes. Saying that brakes can lock the wheels provides almost no information whatsoever about their quality.

What happens when you give the lever a light squeeze? How hard to you have to squeeze to get good braking? What's the shape of the response curve between initial engagement and full power? How does it feel at the lever? These are the things that set better brakes apart.

I have four bikes with dual pivot calipers. One has 6700 Ultegra levers and calipers, one has 5700 105 levers and 5800 105 calipers, one has 4600 Tiagra levers and entry level Miche calipers, and one has Tektro 341 levers with Tektro R539 calipers. The 105 and the Ultegra and very close -- the 105 might be slightly better -- and both are excellent. The Tiagra/Miche combination is really kind of crappy, not so bad that I feel unsafe using them but bad enough that every time I brake I'm reminded that I don't like them. The Tektros are very good, but not as good as the 105 or Ultegra.

I've never used Sora brakes, and I've never used Tiagra levers with Tiagra calipers. I would expect that they'd be as good as my Tektro's, which as I said are very good. I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't as good as my 105's.


The point is that 105 is pretty high up the quality curve and that the difference in things like shift performance is smaller between 105 and Ultegra than it is between Tiagra and 105, particularly when weighted against the relative cost differences. (I say this having not used the newest generation of Tiagra, but having used the previous two generations extensively.)

soom

I'm just gonna put myself out there and flat out say that I like certain equipment looks. For this reason I eventually see myself with some dura-ace swag as opposed to my perfectly 100% functional, technically advanced, and cost-effective 105. The tech benefits are secondary in nature beyond 105 but I don't have the money for campagnolo.

I do like SRAM as well though... Kinda the middle of the road IMO.

Andy_K 

Same. I just upgraded my CX bike from a CX50 (105 level) crankset to a 6800-series Ultegra with the exact same gearing. It saved me all of 117 grams (not bad for $160). I've read claims that the Ultegra crank is a lot stiffer. I did it entirely for looks.

Andy_K 

Personally, I don't think the shifting quality is all that different between 105 and Ultegra. I really don't think you'd notice it at all if you only upgraded the derailleurs.

Ghazmh

My aluminum rain-bad weather-beater road bike has 5700 and my average speed is exactly the same my 6870 equipped carbon rimmed Cervelo R3. That being said the riding experience with 5700 is such a chore to shift, hope for no mis-shifts or dropped chains. Bear in mind I have it checked and adjusted several times a year. I am taking it in tomorrow for a 6800 upgrade with 5800 chain, brakes, and cassette. For me it's about improving the quality of riding over weight or bling as I perform the same on both bikes diametrically different construction materials.

BoJaffa

I'm still running DA 9 speed. Works great. Also running 5700 on a Madone 3.1 frame I built up last year. I liked the look of it for that frame and it serves it's purpose well. That runs real well too. If money is no issue go Dura Ace. Why not. That being said all the 105 and up group sets perform well when properly tuned and maintained.

wphamilton

Doesn't that depend entirely on where you prioritize weight vs smooth shifts vs relative cost? They all work well, punch the button or lever and the gear shifts. e.g, when you like the Ultegra shift fine, the Dura Ace shifting performance is a small increment. If for you 105 shifting is great, not a lot of point for Ultegra except weight. If Sora shifts just dandy in your opinion, why pay extra for 105 except for weight? And of course the converse holds in each case, if you must have the better shifting of Ultegra then Tiagra won't do.

As I see it, the same reasoning can be applied at any level of the component line depending on what you demand of the shifting.

Andy_K 

Only sort of. It's an opinion, but one that's pretty solidly supported by reality at the moment.

For instance, I just looked at Shimano shifters on Universal Cycles. Here's what I found:

Claris shifters (2x8): $110
Sora shifters (2x9): $166
Tiagra shifters (2x10): $170
105 shifters (2x11): $154
Ultegra shifters (2x11): $230

So, is it worth $11 to go from 105 to Sora? Obviously not. Is it worth $44 to go from Claris to 105? I really think so. Is it worth $76 to go from 105 to Ultegra? Maybe, depending on your priorities.

I say this with the understanding that the person asking the question is shopping for an entire groupset, so the prices will spread accordingly, but I think this is kind of typical. On Ribble, for instance, no groupset is available below Tiagra. Tiagra is $324 for the full groupset. 105 is $424 for the groupset. Ultegra is $664. Dura Ace is $1426. That's why I would recommend 105 as the group to buy. If you really prioritize weight, finish or fine function, Ultegra is reasonable. I can't see buying Dura Ace unless you're an elite racer or have money to burn.

wphamilton

Claris is looking pretty tempting there ... although the entire MS groupset is $138

CeeDotA

That's what I was wondering. The bike I'm looking at is a Giant Trinity Advanced. It has Giant's proprietary calipers and since it's a tri bike, I won't need the 105/Ultegra STIs. So really, the only things I'd be upgrading are the derailleurs and crank. The weight difference between 105 and Ultegra's derailleurs and crank isn't enough to justify the cost difference between the two. Besides, I figure I can save the weight (and money) on better wheels and a TT bar & stem. I love 5800's shifting, and was curious if 6800 was noticeably better than 5800. Doesn't sound like it, anyway.

If performance/weight is similar, the only thing I'm concerned with now is whether or not 5800 will eventually be Di2 compatible. If it won't be, then it's Ultegra all the way. I don't plan on installing Di2 to start but would like to upgrade to it in the future.

Bike Gremlin

I have switched 5700 105 for Claris and have experienced improved shifting precision (at the rear).

STI ergonomy is good. Also, cheaper chains, cassettes. So I'd stick with Claris.

ckindt

I have a 2016 Domane 4.3 disc. It came with 105 derailleurs which are shifting very well and my OCD is at peace now, but only after I changed out the 5800 pulleys with 6800 pulleys. The bike came with a 11-32 cassette. The medium cage 5800 RD is designed to work with a 32 max cog, but the guide pulley was just a bit close and it seemed a little noisy too. The main difference between the 6800/5800 RD is bearings vs. bushings. AND the guide pulley's tooth profile is different. This different profile helped in my case with B-tension adjustment and the lower tooth profile will generate less noise in anyone's drive train.

If you already have a 5800, I would just get the 6800 pulleys. If you are buying a new RD, I would just buy the 6800.

ltxi

To/for me full Ultegra group is the sweet spot. 105 (and most likely newest Tiagra) would be perfectly fine but I'd always be thinkin' regrets for not getting Ultegra. Dura Ace would put me into why did I do this overkill territory.

hogger453

I love my Dura Ace.

macca33

I have bikes with both DA & Ultegra 11-speed and there is a s l i g h t advantage to the DA with regard to shifting (marginally lighter and smoother) and obviously the weight, but it is definitely not worth double the cost of Ultegra for these slight advantages....

cheers

RollCNY

I know that your post is a few days old, but thought I would just drop some FYI info:

1) Ribble prices include VAT until you log in. They never used to, but since their last upgrade, even if you select US currency and delivery, VAT remains until you log in. So your prices for Tiagra and 105 are $60-70 high, but the spread remains similar to what you listed.

2) Up until two weeks ago, Ribble sold complete Sora 3500 groupsets. I got mine for $238 complete, including cables.

3) The only deficiency on Sora 3500 brakes as provided is the hard, one piece pad. Change that out to Swiss stop, or whatever flavor of the month pad, and you will be hard pressed to determine major differences to 105. And it is an incredibly common suggestion on this forum for 105 brake owners to change to better pads, so there is essentially no cost delta if either system warrants a swap.

4) Sora 3500 shifting, if set up with some attention to detail, shifts very well, and I would compare it as only slightly inferior to 105 5700. Of course, this is based on 5700 being the worst 105 group (which is a pretty commonly held belief) and 3500 being leaps and bounds better than 3400 Sora (which it is). I have owned both 3500 and 5700, and would not pay 50% more for 5700. You can say that is only $100ish, but it is 50% more for something that does not offer 50% more function.

5) The only true deficiency I have found with Sora 3500 is rear shifting under load. If you climb aggressively, 3500 is far less crisp for RD shifts. If you are a flat lander, or a spinner, you may never even notice the difference.

I am not saying any of this to be argumentative, only to share info. A great many people pan Sora based on the 3400 and previous iterations, but 3500 is not your mother's Oldsmobile.

Regards
Roll

Stucky

Here's how I personally look at it:

I like Dura Ace, but if I were buyibg brand-new, I wouldn't pay the high price, because all I'd be getting for that price is better aesthetics, and no real performance differences, as far as I'm concerned.

That being said, I'd rather have old/used Dura Ace than new anything else.

Andy_K 

You know I see the opinion that 5700 and 6700 were worse than their predecessors a lot, but I just haven't seen that. I've got one bike with 5700 and another with 6700 and they've both been outstanding. I think they're at least as good as 5600/6600 (which I have used in the past). I've also got a bike with 5800 which shifts worse than either, but I believe that's because of a problem with bent ferrules at the inline adjuster that I haven't gotten around to fixing (just bought the bike 2 months ago).

Thanks for your detailed feedback on Sora. I expected it would be coming along. I haven't used Sora, but my experience with Tiagra (4500 and 4600) is that while it actually shifts very cleanly when properly tuned the feel of the shifts isn't quite as clean and it seems to need more frequent maintenance (though that may be because the bikes I've used it on see rougher conditions).