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The New Domane SLR or Is Carbon Comfortable Enough Yet?

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The New Domane SLR or Is Carbon Comfortable Enough Yet?

Old 04-04-16, 08:13 PM
  #76  
TheKillerPenguin
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I had issues with sloppy shift behavior with Sram 10spd that was essentially non existent when i was not so strong but became much more pronounced as I became more fit. My understanding is that the 11spd stuff is much much better, but my new rig came with Ultegra 11 so while I am not opposed to giving Sram another shot, I haven't had a chance to try it out. My primary concern is that my gear performs consistently and reliably. If Sram can make it do that, and can make it perform at the level I hear their 11spd stuff performs at, they'll have a winner. If dudes have issues with their 2032s burning out mid race, I cannot see it going well for them.
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Old 04-04-16, 08:20 PM
  #77  
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Old 04-04-16, 09:17 PM
  #78  
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Honestly, I do not know. This was my first experience on a road bike, borrowed from a friend. Compared to everything else I have ridden, two tarmacs included, it was by far the stiffest.

I am, admittedly, the type of person that feels some sort of "romance" or what have you with metal, namely steel and Ti, and I have felt 100% more comfortable on them since I tried them. Counter to the obvious, I notice even more of a difference on carbon v Ti mtb's. I cannot stand a carbon hard tail, Ti otoh is a dream to ride.

But, as I said before, to each his own. Ride what you like, and keep buying bikes and bits to keep the industry moving forward!

Edit: I hit the quote button below Robert, but have never done this mobile. Supposed to quote him responding to me on page 3.

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Old 04-04-16, 09:26 PM
  #79  
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flex by design is better then flex by fatigue...
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Old 04-04-16, 09:48 PM
  #80  
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Is there any type of warning on etap before the shifter batteries die? The wireless thing has appeal, but I would hope they give a warning rather than the batteries just quitting. Even if you replace batteries on a set interval, you always have the chance of getting a bad cell and it would really suck to find that out in a race or even in the middle of a group ride.
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Old 04-04-16, 10:12 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by grwoolf View Post
Is there any type of warning on etap before the shifter batteries die? The wireless thing has appeal, but I would hope they give a warning rather than the batteries just quitting. Even if you replace batteries on a set interval, you always have the chance of getting a bad cell and it would really suck to find that out in a race or even in the middle of a group ride.
No.
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Old 04-05-16, 02:19 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by gsa103 View Post
You totally misunderstand how the Isospeed and other similar systems work. The goal is to isolate the rear wheel, not the saddle. The problem with saddle suspension is that your legs still get full impact through the pedals. To mitigate impact on the legs you need to let the rear wheel flex upward, independent of pedals and saddle. Isospeed is similar to the Volagi approach, in that the seat post is effectively de-coupled from the seat stay, allowing the seat stay to flex more. Specialized (Zertz), Pinarello (K8-s), and Calfee (Manta) have taken a different approach, letting the seat stays flex alot at a single point.
I doubt leg fatigue is the target. Upper body carries most of the weight and is suspended atop bar and saddle. Legs are hung off the saddle, always bent at 3 joints, and always in motion. Unlike in running, there is zero risk of detriment to the participants legs from impact. I'm wading deep deep into armchair sportsbiophysiomedicine territory now but this rubber piece doesn't do a damn thing for riders' legs.

If they wanted compliance along that axis, they could thin the stays, curve the stays, fiber layup, build it in the chainstays (can't have absolutely rigid CS, must allow for motion to accompany triangle flex whether with isopee or etc)...

...just seems like the most ineligible engineering solution, that gets a pass because of mere novelty
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Old 04-05-16, 05:52 AM
  #83  
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I think some people are missing that this is an adjustable isospeed so the rider can vary the amount of compliance they want. It just isn't for "more comfort" but rather what level you need for the given terrain or race. It's quite a bit different than the previous Domane. It seems for a regular rider this would be an ideal century machine where you don't want your body screaming in pain on the last ten miles and for a racer who rides different courses with varying qualities of roadways across the country....and cobbles, I suppose.


On the etap stuff....it seems cool and a more elegant solution than having wires all over the bike, but it's made by Sram so expect some manufacturer defects.
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Old 04-05-16, 06:49 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by RJM View Post
I think some people are missing that this is an adjustable isospeed so the rider can vary the amount of compliance they want.
Only people with pre-made ideas are 'missing' this.
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Old 04-05-16, 07:25 AM
  #85  
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I'm not an engineer and don't ride a carbon bike but putting the flex in the head tube seems extreme to me.
I watched the SLR video and the bars moved (shook). Why not put flex in the stem, that way anyone can retrofit his existing bike to have the same comfort as a new one.
IMHO
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Old 04-05-16, 07:51 AM
  #86  
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Hmm, sounds like the majority here feel like this new Domane is a step in the right direction. I'm surprised.

Not my cup o' tea, but I guess there is a market clearly.
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Old 04-05-16, 07:56 AM
  #87  
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Another thing to consider is that the new Domane is just one range of bikes in a very broad Trek product line. It is not like that is all that is available from Trek. Neither is it all that is available from Trek that is a pleasant "ride". The Emonda is not known as a bone shaker by any means. IOW there are much more conventional Trek road racing bikes that very satisfactory "rides" without having to resort to the Domane. Think of the Domane as something a bit exotic for those wanting a more extreme effect.
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Old 04-05-16, 09:37 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Another thing to consider is that the new Domane is just one range of bikes in a very broad Trek product line. It is not like that is all that is available from Trek. Neither is it all that is available from Trek that is a pleasant "ride". The Emonda is not known as a bone shaker by any means. IOW there are much more conventional Trek road racing bikes that very satisfactory "rides" without having to resort to the Domane. Think of the Domane as something a bit exotic for those wanting a more extreme effect.
Great concepts trickle down and unworthy products die. Why steel which has littered this thread has died. And...the sad joke is the public are the guinea pigs. The vast majority who comprise the public aren't engineers who buy products and they can't discriminate marketing from improvement. Testimonials of this abound on the 41.
Sometimes things are improved. Engineers sometimes do create a better mousetrap. Sometimes not aka press fit BB's

Anybody who has ridden the current Domane knows it has the best combination of vertical compliance to power transfer of any bike on the market. Its great tech. Trek just upped the ante. As much as I believe the new Madone is the most technically advanced bike on the market, I wouldn't want to have bought one of the first ones as great as the bike is. New Domane has proven the new Madone is only half done. Probably in a couple more years Trek will come out with a tunable spring rate in the front. My guess. Look what Trek has just created with the new Domane...a tunable rear leaf spring...spring rate that can be adjusted in the rear and a 10% more compliant front end. This belongs on a $10K Madone and a variant of this tech no doubt will end up there. Now Trek has a dilemma. When they can make their aero bike as compliant as an endurance bike with available similar geometry aka H2. Why ride the endurance bike? Perhaps Trek will ponder this a while and keep some of the suspension off the Madone. But there is no reason why these worlds shouldn't collide. Complaint about the Domane heretofore is the unbalance of rear compliance to the front. In other words, Trek made the Domane too good in the back which highlighted the stiffness in the front. By contrast, many believe Specialized made the current Roubaix too stiff in the rear...the opposite direction. So Trek addressed this with with more compliance now in the front with adjustability in the rear. If the handling isn't adversely affected or a funny feeling bike from this suspension....Spartacus just won on this new design I believe that somewhat validates it...a guy who doesn't have to ride it if it isn't worthy of the most grueling conditions...a guy who rides mechanical shifting DA9000 because he doesn't like Di2...a pretty good bet it works.

I look forward to better reviews of the new Domane. Also, I wouldn't be an early adopter. I would let this new tech settle a bit. Keep in mind 41'ers...the bike industry like many others performs its beta testing on those willing to take the gamble of a new design. This is how it works make no mistake. Only so much can be gleaned by computer modeling, laboratory testing and test miles on the road before a product is released. More intricate the tech, bigger the risk. So a year or two of wait and see is a prudent posture if you plan on holding on to a given bike for a while. But to me, what Trek has just done is the future of bikes. To put a finer point on it...aerodynamic frame sections that can be created in carbon and Aluminum...what is called the section modulus of these sections are the polar opposite of what is desired for vertical compliance and lateral stiffness. With the advent of suspension aka pivoting geometry, this completely changes the game. Now vertical compliance by virtue of section shape can be taken off the table and bikes can be made more aero and more compliant than ever. So this tech is a game changer to create an aero bike that rides better than a conventional more symmetric section bike. This is why this tech has made its way onto Trek's Madone although an early foray and now Trek is dabbling with a tunable version and front compliance. Most of us that ride wish we had more suspension over certain sections of roads. If this suspension doesn't have a cost in performance or weight...especially if its tunable...then it will likely be a big seller. This isn't marketing. It works. Best to wait a couple of years before this tech makes it on the new Madone....which has to suffer some of the criticism levied against the Domane for having an uneven feeling front to back of the bike.
Its rumored the new Roubaix may debut in 2017. I want to see how it stacks up to the Domane and what direction Specialized takes the Roubaix. To me they regressed the bike a bit with the SL4 and want to see if they atone with the SL5 and give the bike the ride comfort and performance of the Domane. A last note. I am not fan of either BB90...metal bearings pressed into a pure carbon BB...or Trek's single bolt seatpost. I personally think both suck. In fact, they are the primary reasons I don't want a Trek. I believe Trek makes great bikes with these design faults. My opinion.

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Old 04-05-16, 08:26 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by grwoolf View Post
Is there any type of warning on etap before the shifter batteries die? The wireless thing has appeal, but I would hope they give a warning rather than the batteries just quitting. Even if you replace batteries on a set interval, you always have the chance of getting a bad cell and it would really suck to find that out in a race or even in the middle of a group ride.
Yes. I've been hands-on with it. If your battery dies, it's because you can't push a button. A push of a button tells you your battery health on each component. FFS
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Old 04-05-16, 10:05 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by RJM View Post
I think some people are missing that this is an adjustable isospeed so the rider can vary the amount of compliance they want. It just isn't for "more comfort" but rather what level you need for the given terrain or race. It's quite a bit different than the previous Domane. It seems for a regular rider this would be an ideal century machine where you don't want your body screaming in pain on the last ten miles and for a racer who rides different courses with varying qualities of roadways across the country....and cobbles, I suppose.


On the etap stuff....it seems cool and a more elegant solution than having wires all over the bike, but it's made by Sram so expect some manufacturer defects.
This is how I see it also. It is a very cool idea, for those that want the ability to fine tune. As was said before, not everyone has 10 years under their belts and knowledge of the exact bike they need, so having some flexibility built in for adjustment, or even changing taste as fitness improves, is a welcome idea. Plus, tuning for specific terrain is a new idea on road that has been around in mtb and motorcycles suspension for... well ever. I am totally fine with my steel bike, stiffness and all. Is everyone like me? No.

Etap... I have never ridden electronic, and don't know that I would see the benefit (I am sure I would, but until an actual demo, I can't say). Etap doesn't really do anything for me, but I have never had good experiences with SRAM, so that is part of it.
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Old 04-05-16, 10:13 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post


Extra butter anyone?
me me me i wants some.
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Old 04-06-16, 12:03 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels View Post

I'm not disagreeing with the fact that a $500 dollar steel frame isn't awesome.

.
Ouch. That hurts my brain.
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Old 04-06-16, 12:58 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by grwoolf View Post
Is there any type of warning on etap before the shifter batteries die? The wireless thing has appeal, but I would hope they give a warning rather than the batteries just quitting. Even if you replace batteries on a set interval, you always have the chance of getting a bad cell and it would really suck to find that out in a race or even in the middle of a group ride.
Of course there is. There are indicator lights on both derailleurs that will go from green to red to flashing red, depending on how much juice is left in the corresponding battery.
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Old 04-06-16, 01:45 AM
  #94  
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Most cyclists don't seem to understand that a (properly tuned) softer suspension is actually faster (less forward energy lost in vertical movement, AND better cornering grip from increased tracking of the surface) on rougher surfaces than a harder suspension. The same is true for 4-wheeled automobiles. Cyclists have this HTFU mentality that is not inline with physics.

The wider tires, lower PSI, and frame suspensions are NOT just for greater comfort, it's also for faster SPEED on uneven pavement. I, for one, applaud Trek's direction with their R&D.
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Old 04-06-16, 01:53 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by Fiery View Post
Of course there is. There are indicator lights on both derailleurs that will go from green to red to flashing red, depending on how much juice is left in the corresponding battery.
Those LEDs show how much juice is left in the corresponding derailleur. To answer grwolf's question, there are no battery indicators for the coin cell batteries in each shifter. Not that it's worth worrying about, mind. Coin cells last forever and they're cheap to replace when forever comes around.
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Old 04-06-16, 04:38 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by link0 View Post
Most cyclists don't seem to understand that a (properly tuned) softer suspension is actually faster (less forward energy lost in vertical movement, AND better cornering grip from increased tracking of the surface) on rougher surfaces than a harder suspension. The same is true for 4-wheeled automobiles. Cyclists have this HTFU mentality that is not inline with physics.

The wider tires, lower PSI, and frame suspensions are NOT just for greater comfort, it's also for faster SPEED on uneven pavement. I, for one, applaud Trek's direction with their R&D.
That's right. What you state is why the best riders in the world are fastest over cobbles on longer wheelbase more compliant endurance bikes running 60 psi of tire pressure on 30mm wide tires. They are trying to set the fastest times with this bike configuration which would not be close to the fastest setup on billiard smooth roads where stiffer bikes with narrower tires at higher pressure are rewarded. This is why top riders change bikes for classics races. Testament to how good the Domane is....Cancellara rode the Domane for more than just the classics...he chose the Domane over the Madone for many of the top tour races. To me, for the average rider, there is no speed difference between an endurance bike and shorter wheelbase race bike. I will go a step farther and say for the average rider with less flexibility, a given rider...me...is faster on an endurance frame because of riding position, power output and less fatigue into the ride. My opinion having ridden many different bike configurations with a broad mix of riders on different bikes.

Cancellara's testing of the new Domane:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKNo...&nohtml5=False


Here is a superb article about new SLR. We all know that Cancellara came in second to Sagan on the SLR in the Flanders Classics great race. Sagan, I believe was on a custom Roubaix (short head tube) . If somebody can confirm Sagan was on a Roubaix, please do:
https://pelotonmagazine.com/uncategor...-images-video/

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Old 04-06-16, 05:27 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
That's right. What you state is why the best riders in the world are fastest over cobbles on longer wheelbase more compliant endurance bikes running 60 psi of tire pressure on 30mm wide tires. They are trying to set the fastest times with this bike configuration which would not be close to the fastest setup on billiard smooth roads where stiffer bikes with narrower tires at higher pressure are rewarded. This is why top riders change bikes for classics races. Testament to how good the Domane is....Cancellara rode the Domane for more than just the classics...he chose the Domane over the Madone for many of the top tour races. To me, for the average rider, there is no speed difference between an endurance bike and shorter wheelbase race bike. I will go a step farther and say for the average rider with less flexibility, a given rider...me...is faster on an endurance frame because of riding position, power output and less fatigue into the ride. My opinion having ridden many different bike configurations with a broad mix of riders on different bikes.

Cancellara's testing of the new Domane:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKNo...&nohtml5=False
whats the value of pushing a marketing video by trek?

sponsored rider happening to ride the latest bike revealed by manufacturer? no big surprise there.

cancellaras won on treks. he's won on specialized. he's won on cervelo. contador took big wins on specialized. he's took big wins on treks.

play mixaroo with bikes for contestants at any level of competition and the year end results will largely be the same.
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Old 04-06-16, 06:55 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by redfooj View Post
whats the value of pushing a marketing video by trek?

sponsored rider happening to ride the latest bike revealed by manufacturer? no big surprise there.

cancellaras won on treks. he's won on specialized. he's won on cervelo. contador took big wins on specialized. he's took big wins on treks.

play mixaroo with bikes for contestants at any level of competition and the year end results will largely be the same.
Not pushing the video. Putting it out there for others to consider. Viewing is optional.
You are quite right and mixeroo with bikes and tech. No surprise that top riders rise to the top as they always do. Bottom line is the tech of the top bikes isn't enough of a gap to keep top riders from rising as you say.
Cancellara on a SLR came in second to Sagan on a Specialized who broke away at Flanders. Will see what happens at the Roubaix.

PS: I did a freeze frame of Sagan's breakaway at the recent Flanders and noticed he wasn't on a Roubaix or a Venge VIAS but rather the same bike he won the World's on...a Tarmac. See below.
Question is...did Sagan make a bike change after the grueling cobbled section of the race? If anybody knows...please post.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Sagan 2016 Flanders Tarmac.jpg (100.4 KB, 21 views)

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Old 04-06-16, 07:13 AM
  #99  
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The racing environment ( not plootering about on chip-seal ) that the Pave' bikes are designed for: Paris-Roubaix 2015, Arenberg Forest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG6B9XBcy_Q

As always, suit yourself.

-Bandera
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Old 04-06-16, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by k_kibbler View Post
Those LEDs show how much juice is left in the corresponding derailleur. To answer grwolf's question, there are no battery indicators for the coin cell batteries in each shifter. Not that it's worth worrying about, mind. Coin cells last forever and they're cheap to replace when forever comes around.
Reading too quickly too early in the morning. Thanks for the correction.
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