Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Campagnolo... Made in China

Notices
Road Cycling It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle. -- Ernest Hemingway

Campagnolo... Made in China

Old 05-02-16, 05:58 PM
  #1  
buzz111
i never learn
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 23

Bikes: Litespeed/Bianchi/Jamis/Giant

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Campagnolo... Made in China

I recently bought a Campagnolo spares kit to rebuild the wheel hubs on my Campi-equipped bike. Imagine my shock when I noticed the Parts Code label on the pretty little Campagnolo box stated "Made in China" instead of "Made in Italy"!

I did some research and learned that Campagnolo expanded manufacturing operations into Romania a while back, but this did not explain what I saw. I did some more digging and discovered that certain wheels manufactured by Fulcrum, a Campagnolo subsidiary, share identical parts with some Campagnolo wheels. The corresponding part numbers are, of course, different and brand-specific. This extends to spares kits as well - Campagnolo Code HB-RE100 is identical to Fulcrum Code RS-100.

So what to conclude from all this? Apparently, it's that Fulcrum has manufacturing operations in China, and since Campagnolo only manufactures parts in Italy (and now Romania), the parts in the Campagnolo kit are in fact Fulcrum parts re-boxed as Campagnolo parts.

It seems a bit sneaky of Campagnolo to outsource manufacturing this way. It was inevitable that the days of "Campagnolo" being synonymous with "Made in Italy" would come to an end. I just never thought I'd learn of this day from a printed white label on a tiny Campagnolo box. Such is life I suppose.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
WP_20160502_18_34_53_Pro.jpg (94.1 KB, 126 views)
buzz111 is offline  
Old 05-02-16, 06:00 PM
  #2  
datlas 
Beyond Bogus
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 29,053

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 405 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9136 Post(s)
Liked 216 Times in 140 Posts
Danger! Asplosion is imminent! Danger!

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Danger-WR-WP2.jpg (18.7 KB, 76 views)
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Old 05-02-16, 06:03 PM
  #3  
redlude97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,488
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1834 Post(s)
Liked 117 Times in 86 Posts
Originally Posted by buzz111 View Post
I recently bought a Campagnolo spares kit to rebuild the wheel hubs on my Campi-equipped bike. Imagine my shock when I noticed the Parts Code label on the pretty little Campagnolo box stated "Made in China" instead of "Made in Italy"!

I did some research and learned that Campagnolo expanded manufacturing operations into Romania a while back, but this did not explain what I saw. I did some more digging and discovered that certain wheels manufactured by Fulcrum, a Campagnolo subsidiary, share identical parts with some Campagnolo wheels. The corresponding part numbers are, of course, different and brand-specific. This extends to spares kits as well - Campagnolo Code HB-RE100 is identical to Fulcrum Code RS-100.

So what to conclude from all this? Apparently, it's that Fulcrum has manufacturing operations in China, and since Campagnolo only manufactures parts in Italy (and now Romania), the parts in the Campagnolo kit are in fact Fulcrum parts re-boxed as Campagnolo parts.

It seems a bit sneaky of Campagnolo to outsource manufacturing this way. It was inevitable that the days of "Campagnolo" being synonymous with "Made in Italy" would come to an end. I just never thought I'd learn of this day from a printed white label on a tiny Campagnolo box. Such is life I suppose.
The wheels are probably assembled in italy/romania, which is generally enough to label things made in italy etc, just like the many carbon bikes that are "made in italy" when the frames are clearly from taiwan. As long as you throw it together and put some stickers on it you can call it whatever you want. Same with a lot of made in USA products
redlude97 is offline  
Old 05-02-16, 06:07 PM
  #4  
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,519

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 105 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6415 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by buzz111 View Post
I recently bought a Campagnolo spares kit to rebuild the wheel hubs on my Campi-equipped bike. Imagine my shock when I noticed the Parts Code label on the pretty little Campagnolo box stated "Made in China" instead of "Made in Italy"!

I did some research and learned that Campagnolo expanded manufacturing operations into Romania a while back, but this did not explain what I saw. I did some more digging and discovered that certain wheels manufactured by Fulcrum, a Campagnolo subsidiary, share identical parts with some Campagnolo wheels. The corresponding part numbers are, of course, different and brand-specific. This extends to spares kits as well - Campagnolo Code HB-RE100 is identical to Fulcrum Code RS-100.

So what to conclude from all this? Apparently, it's that Fulcrum has manufacturing operations in China, and since Campagnolo only manufactures parts in Italy (and now Romania), the parts in the Campagnolo kit are in fact Fulcrum parts re-boxed as Campagnolo parts.

It seems a bit sneaky of Campagnolo to outsource manufacturing this way. It was inevitable that the days of "Campagnolo" being synonymous with "Made in Italy" would come to an end. I just never thought I'd learn of this day from a printed white label on a tiny Campagnolo box. Such is life I suppose.
Did you think it was important enough for it to be in the NY Times. A total non-issue.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 05-02-16, 06:18 PM
  #5  
texaspandj
Senior Member
 
texaspandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Heart Of Texas
Posts: 3,429

Bikes: '86 , '87 , '88 , '89 Centurion Dave Scott Ironman.

Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1165 Post(s)
Liked 77 Times in 61 Posts
Not surprised.
texaspandj is offline  
Old 05-02-16, 06:24 PM
  #6  
rms13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,517
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 273 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Newsflash: everything is made in China
rms13 is offline  
Old 05-02-16, 06:45 PM
  #7  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 14,362

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 864 Post(s)
Liked 35 Times in 32 Posts
I don't see the shock value. Campagnolo is design, a knowledge-base ("the Knowledge") and a standard of quality, as well as a cache of precision Italian craftsmen. They were compromising as soon as they started selling lower-priced gruppi, which started with, well, maintaining the Gran Sport after the Record was introduced. But for most of these products quality and durability were not sacrificed (we all know about the exceptions, no need to pile on, dudes!). In many industries the craftsmanship has been mechanized and not diminished - why not Campy?

Rumors in Techieland are that Apple intends to build a car. Are they planning to build Apple Car Assembly line (imagine a little bomb icon when a part is not installed right!)? No, they are negotiating with auto makers (who have factories and know how to run them) and assemblers (ditto) all over the world asking, will you build my car for me? We can pay you well! They are hiring a fab, like they did for iPhones! Why not Campagnolo?

China is just the current move in industry, world-wide.

The great seams on car bodies today are not just the result of designers and systems engineers enforcing that the panels shall be fit right - there are also better machines for placing the panels precisely and ensuring stability as the body is welded into one solid piece of car steel. Better craftsmanship AND better quality AND better performance AND far lower cost for what you get.
Road Fan is offline  
Old 05-02-16, 06:47 PM
  #8  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 4,923

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2350 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 59 Posts
Maybe just the box was made in China?
Sy Reene is offline  
Old 05-02-16, 08:22 PM
  #9  
jtaylor996
INSERT_TITLE_HERE
 
jtaylor996's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: DFW
Posts: 5,067

Bikes: 2016 Cannondale Synapse 105, 2016 Salsa Pony Rustler X01

Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2939 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Maybe just the box was made in China?
Or maybe just the barcode sticker...

o_O
jtaylor996 is offline  
Old 05-02-16, 09:08 PM
  #10  
Reynolds 
Passista
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,674

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaa pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked 55 Times in 44 Posts
坎帕尼奥洛

Kǎn p n o lu
Reynolds is offline  
Old 05-03-16, 04:09 AM
  #11  
kbarch
Senior Member
 
kbarch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,286
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1095 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
I don't see the shock value. Campagnolo is design, a knowledge-base ("the Knowledge") and a standard of quality, as well as a cache of precision Italian craftsmen....

Rumors in Techieland are that Apple intends to build a car. Are they planning to build Apple Car Assembly line (imagine a little bomb icon when a part is not installed right!)? No, they are negotiating with auto makers (who have factories and know how to run them) and assemblers (ditto) all over the world asking, will you build my car for me? We can pay you well! They are hiring a fab, like they did for iPhones! Why not Campagnolo?

China is just the current move in industry, world-wide.
It's more of a wake-up than a shock. I get what you're saying about design, but think there's a little more to it than that in this case. Maybe we thought we were getting something where the name meant something substantial about where it came from and who did the work. There is the notion that some things are not commodities - that it actually matters who does the work. Some people have a kind of native care for their work, some are kind of diligent mercenaries, and others are completely indifferent and will screw it up unless they're watched like a hawk.

Most people will return to a repair shop, and not go to just any mechanic not because that shop is any better at merely turning a wrench. Anyone can turn a wrench. Usually we make the decision not based on how well they turn the wrench or how little they charge to do so, but based on the belief that they know what they're doing and actually care.

Likewise, anyone can watch a machine cut or stamp out a part and put it in a box. And if they do the work without screwing it up, what difference does it make? Well, it just seems awfully degrading to make cheap labor the goal, and personally, I don't like realizing that I'm participating in that. If a brand doesn't care who makes their stuff as long as they make it cheaply - if they'd rather pay to ship it around the globe than pay a little more to have it made in some more convenient place - then it's just so much stuff. There's nothing personal about it, so why should we care if it has their personal label on it? Sure, some parts really are commodities, but why should a cog be more important than the person who made it?

Last edited by kbarch; 05-03-16 at 04:14 AM.
kbarch is offline  
Old 05-03-16, 05:36 AM
  #12  
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,519

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 105 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6415 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by kbarch View Post
It's more of a wake-up than a shock. I get what you're saying about design, but think there's a little more to it than that in this case. Maybe we thought we were getting something where the name meant something substantial about where it came from and who did the work. There is the notion that some things are not commodities - that it actually matters who does the work. Some people have a kind of native care for their work, some are kind of diligent mercenaries, and others are completely indifferent and will screw it up unless they're watched like a hawk.

Most people will return to a repair shop, and not go to just any mechanic not because that shop is any better at merely turning a wrench. Anyone can turn a wrench. Usually we make the decision not based on how well they turn the wrench or how little they charge to do so, but based on the belief that they know what they're doing and actually care.

Likewise, anyone can watch a machine cut or stamp out a part and put it in a box. And if they do the work without screwing it up, what difference does it make? Well, it just seems awfully degrading to make cheap labor the goal, and personally, I don't like realizing that I'm participating in that. If a brand doesn't care who makes their stuff as long as they make it cheaply - if they'd rather pay to ship it around the globe than pay a little more to have it made in some more convenient place - then it's just so much stuff. There's nothing personal about it, so why should we care if it has their personal label on it? Sure, some parts really are commodities, but why should a cog be more important than the person who made it?
But what if good are being made in China because the Chinese do a really good job AND don't charge a lot?
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 05-03-16, 06:00 AM
  #13  
kbarch
Senior Member
 
kbarch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,286
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1095 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
But what if good are being made in China because the Chinese do a really good job AND don't charge a lot?
It's not enough that anyone can be made or found to do a good job. One likes to think that they want to, were meant to, That there's more to work than responding to calculated business moves.
I remember seeing pictures of streets in the cities of China flooded with bicycles. No one had cars. I think it would be very cool to have one of those bikes for riding in the city, not because I think they're well made, but because they are so authentic.
kbarch is offline  
Old 05-03-16, 06:05 AM
  #14  
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,519

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 105 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6415 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by kbarch View Post
It's not enough that anyone can be made or found to do a good job. One likes to think that they want to, were meant to, That there's more to work than responding to calculated business moves.
That is a very romantic view of business and one at odds with reality. It is quite enough that SOMEONE can be made or found to do a good job. That is exactly the goal of business.

The Campagnolo Italian mystique has always been and will always be horse puckey.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 05-03-16, 06:15 AM
  #15  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,512
Mentioned: 175 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9242 Post(s)
Liked 807 Times in 505 Posts
Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
坎帕尼奥洛

Kǎn p n o lu
+1.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 05-03-16, 06:50 AM
  #16  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 22,979
Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9207 Post(s)
Liked 208 Times in 161 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
That is a very romantic view of business and one at odds with reality. It is quite enough that SOMEONE can be made or found to do a good job. That is exactly the goal of business.

The Campagnolo Italian mystique has always been and will always be horse puckey.
There are a lot of very high quality Campagnolo parts.
Also some good Shimano parts, and some pure JUNK bearing the Shimano name.

Look at the US tool industry. For years there were some very high quality American made tools. But often EXPENSIVE. So the importers came in and prices fell (or failed to go up). But so did quality. The response, the big American companies started importing their tools. Some things are better and cheaper. Some have chosen to go with bottom quality not good enough to use as paper weights.

So, if Campy manufactures to the same specs. Good steel. Quality machining. Heat treating. Polished cones and races. Then it probably doesn't make any difference where the parts are made. But, it is a slippery slope.

Plus, if companies stop employing locally, who's going to pay the workers enough to buy their products?
CliffordK is offline  
Old 05-03-16, 07:06 AM
  #17  
joejack951
Senior Member
 
joejack951's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 11,889

Bikes: 2016 Hong Fu FM-079-F, 1984 Trek 660, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2016 Islabikes Beinn 20 (son's)

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1141 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
As long as you throw it together and put some stickers on it you can call it whatever you want. Same with a lot of made in USA products
The US is pretty strict about what can and cannot be called 'Made in the USA': https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busi...e-usa-standard

Originally Posted by FTC
What is the standard for a product to be called Made in USA without qualification?

For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.
That's not to say that some don't bend the rules as many bicycle frame vendors do, calling their frames 'made in the USA' when the tubing and other components (lugs) are made elsewhere.

But don't confuse 'made in the USA' with 'country of origin' (for import/export purposes). The latter is far more lenient.

Last edited by joejack951; 05-03-16 at 07:10 AM.
joejack951 is offline  
Old 05-03-16, 10:44 AM
  #18  
rmfnla
Senior Member
 
rmfnla's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: La La Land (We love it!)
Posts: 6,300

Bikes: Gilmour road, Curtlo road; both steel (of course)

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 269 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
More to consider than just where it was "made".

If a product is designed and materials are sourced elsewhere but assembly is in China and well monitored the resultant quality can be every bit as good as the original...
__________________
Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...
rmfnla is offline  
Old 05-03-16, 10:45 AM
  #19  
kbarch
Senior Member
 
kbarch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,286
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1095 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
That is a very romantic view of business and one at odds with reality. It is quite enough that SOMEONE can be made or found to do a good job. That is exactly the goal of business.

The Campagnolo Italian mystique has always been and will always be horse puckey.
That may be the goal of business, but it's not the goal of life - not mine, anyhow.

I don't think there's anything "romantic" about the idea of there being more to life than business, but it does strike me that the reduction of our behavior to mere business, or the belief in the infallibility or primacy of "practical" business decisions is naive in its own way.
kbarch is offline  
Old 05-03-16, 11:17 AM
  #20  
Reynolds 
Passista
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,674

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaa pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked 55 Times in 44 Posts
30 or 40 years ago Campagnolo high end groups were (relatively) much more expensive than today IIRC. But maybe it's just I had less money at the time... Anyone remembers about this?
Reynolds is offline  
Old 05-03-16, 12:27 PM
  #21  
brn2run
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: St. Martin, Ohio
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Why wouldn't you want your Italian bike parts to be made in Italy?
They make such reliable cars over there.
brn2run is offline  
Old 05-03-16, 01:19 PM
  #22  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 22,979
Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9207 Post(s)
Liked 208 Times in 161 Posts
Originally Posted by brn2run View Post
Why wouldn't you want your Italian bike parts to be made in Italy?
They make such reliable cars over there.
Hmmm...
FIATS got a bad reputation in the USA, but have been accepted elsewhere. I think the new ones are better.
The Yugo, of course was an Italian car made out of country.

FIAT also owns many of the better known Italian brands.

Until very recently, I don't believe any Chinese cars have made it to the USA.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 05-03-16, 01:27 PM
  #23  
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,519

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 105 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6415 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by kbarch View Post
That may be the goal of business, but it's not the goal of life - not mine, anyhow.

I don't think there's anything "romantic" about the idea of there being more to life than business, but it does strike me that the reduction of our behavior to mere business, or the belief in the infallibility or primacy of "practical" business decisions is naive in its own way.
We have a significant disconnect here. You are talking about your own life, while I am talking about a business. The topic was Campagnolo and whether where its products are made matters. Suggesting that coming from Italy imbues a product with intangible value is quite literally romantic. There may be more to your life than business, but business is everything to Campagnolo. I guess that is because they are in fact a business. If they forget that, you will have more to grieve than where they have started sourcing their goods. You will find them just plain gone.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 05-03-16, 01:49 PM
  #24  
Lazyass
Senior Member
 
Lazyass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 8,171

Bikes: Vintage steel, aluminum, modern carbon disc, single speed, MTB's, the works

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1912 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
This laissez-faire attitude everyone has towards China producing everything, which is sad to see, is why they will someday be the lone superpower.
Lazyass is offline  
Old 05-03-16, 02:01 PM
  #25  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Got a castle in - er, Minneapolis, that's where I dwell!
Posts: 25,610

Bikes: 2016 Diamondback Haanjo, 2018 Trek Domane SL5 Gravel

Mentioned: 311 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9444 Post(s)
Liked 356 Times in 218 Posts
I tried really hard, but I was still unable to get worked up over this.
WhyFi is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.