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Do road cyclists make better motorcyclists?

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Do road cyclists make better motorcyclists?

Old 05-17-16, 10:27 AM
  #76  
vasuvius
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In NYC, on the West Side Highway NB, there are long segments where the lane separation markers are scored to make it difficult to lane split. (Intentional ?)
It's like riding a single track with a shifting line and moving obstacles. Still doesn't deter most bikers. The only real danger are the T&LC drivers who try to kill you.

Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
If you did that on the east coast you'd be dead in a week. In Boston or NYC, within the day.
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Old 05-17-16, 10:28 AM
  #77  
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P.S> I commuted on a motorcycle from NJ to NYC for several years but prefer to ride my road bike now instead as it takes less time to cover the 25 miles.
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Old 05-17-16, 01:01 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by dim View Post
I used to ride motorbikes for many years when I was younger. This made me a better car driver as I am aware of perils and dangers which many car drivers don't bother about. This has also made me a better cyclist, as I'm not afraid to be a bit bolder sometimes and take the centre of the lane if I need to turn.

Same goes for cycling .... you become a better car driver as you are more alert of your surroundings especially in heavier traffic
This is what I feel is true.

I started driving. Then riding motorcycles a few years later and then onto cycling.

Motorcycles without a doubt in my mind made me a better driver.

Then transitioning to cycling and commuting made me a better cyclist. Like has been said you were better able to judge situations, speeds, placement, and overall my situational awareness was keen.

This is aspect is not something I have considered when the ugly head of the take the lane dispute with my wife rears its head. But I felt more comfortable in traffic, not some obstacle on the side which needs (or needs not) to be given ample room.
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Old 05-17-16, 01:22 PM
  #79  
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I really don't like motor bikes with cyclist. While I think those that drive cars know there are weaker ones out there, from motor bikes, to bicyclists, to pedestrians, it seems the motor riders are often too busy watching out for themselves. I hear more about motor driving defensively than I hear about watching out for others. The rate a motor bike -> cyclist dangerous encounter seems higher to me than car -> cyclist (being there are so many more cars). I have no stats, but seems the cars give more berth to a cyclist than the motor bikes.

Last month a cyclist was killed being run over by a motor cycle in a race, last week my son hit this one, after it hit another hard enough to dislodge a rear wheel.

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Old 05-17-16, 01:30 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
I really don't like motor bikes with cyclist. While I think those that drive cars know there are weaker ones out there, from motor bikes, to bicyclists, to pedestrians, it seems the motor riders are often too busy watching out for themselves. I hear more about motor driving defensively than I hear about watching out for others. The rate a motor bike -> cyclist dangerous encounter seems higher to me than car -> cyclist (being there are so many more cars). I have no stats, but seems the cars give more berth to a cyclist than the motor bikes.

Last month a cyclist was killed being run over by a motor cycle in a race, last week my son hit this one, after it hit another hard enough to dislodge a rear wheel.


Never got hit, or got in a "didn't see you" situation with a motorcycle. Only with cars. Every day I ride a bicycle, at least one car driver fails to give right of way (not noticing, or not caring).

I ride both bicycle and motorcycle defensively. Doesn't mean I put others at risk, quite the contrary.
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Old 05-17-16, 02:45 PM
  #81  
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I've been riding bicycles since I was 7 (learnt on the streets of Bombay), motorcycles since I was 14, and only driving cars since I was 25.
Motorcycles taught me how to be careful for my safety and mindful of others' safety.
As a cyclist who commutes into NYC, I find my biggest hazards are: 1) Pedestrians with smart phones 2) Citibike riders with smart phones 3) Cars and SUVs. In that order.
Never once in 15000 miles of bicycle commuting in the past 3 years into some of the worst traffic (NYC / NJ) have I had any issues with someone on a motorcycle.

Your experience may differ.

Originally Posted by Doge View Post
I really don't like motor bikes with cyclist. While I think those that drive cars know there are weaker ones out there, from motor bikes, to bicyclists, to pedestrians, it seems the motor riders are often too busy watching out for themselves. I hear more about motor driving defensively than I hear about watching out for others. The rate a motor bike -> cyclist dangerous encounter seems higher to me than car -> cyclist (being there are so many more cars). I have no stats, but seems the cars give more berth to a cyclist than the motor bikes.

Last month a cyclist was killed being run over by a motor cycle in a race, last week my son hit this one, after it hit another hard enough to dislodge a rear wheel.

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Old 05-17-16, 02:59 PM
  #82  
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I'm not convinced that road cyclist even make better bicyclist let alone motorcyclist.
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Old 05-17-16, 03:01 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post

How did this occur? Plus, I hope your son was OK. Looks like the dumped bike is a Ducati, or Suzuki ?
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Old 05-17-16, 03:35 PM
  #84  
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This was the end of a decent and a big wind from the right. The motor bike "blew" into the line of riders on the left, knocking one off, falling and the others hit the motor and fell/flipped. It was at speed. Mind you the entire road was open. Why it happened I alluded to above, although folks don't share my experiences. No, he was not hurt badly, but it cost him 40 places, but we won GC - so all is good. There are many more race motor issues than car ones. It is a problem.
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Old 05-17-16, 03:46 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
This was the end of a decent and a big wind from the right. The motor bike "blew" into the line of riders on the left, knocking one off, falling and the others hit the motor and fell/flipped. It was at speed. Mind you the entire road was open. Why it happened I alluded to above, although folks don't share my experiences. No, he was not hurt badly, but it cost him 40 places, but we won GC - so all is good. There are many more race motor issues than car ones. It is a problem.
Cheers. Stuff happens and your son is taking it all in stride. Kudos to the team for taking GC.
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Old 05-18-16, 03:11 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
I really don't like motor bikes with cyclist. While I think those that drive cars know there are weaker ones out there, from motor bikes, to bicyclists, to pedestrians, it seems the motor riders are often too busy watching out for themselves. I hear more about motor driving defensively than I hear about watching out for others. The rate a motor bike -> cyclist dangerous encounter seems higher to me than car -> cyclist (being there are so many more cars). I have no stats, but seems the cars give more berth to a cyclist than the motor bikes.

Last month a cyclist was killed being run over by a motor cycle in a race, last week my son hit this one, after it hit another hard enough to dislodge a rear wheel.

I don't even know where to start with this. So wrong.
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Old 05-18-16, 03:14 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by vasuvius View Post
I've been riding bicycles since I was 7 (learnt on the streets of Bombay), motorcycles since I was 14, and only driving cars since I was 25.
Motorcycles taught me how to be careful for my safety and mindful of others' safety.
As a cyclist who commutes into NYC, I find my biggest hazards are: 1) Pedestrians with smart phones 2) Citibike riders with smart phones 3) Cars and SUVs. In that order.
Never once in 15000 miles of bicycle commuting in the past 3 years into some of the worst traffic (NYC / NJ) have I had any issues with someone on a motorcycle.

Your experience may differ.
Just yesterday as I was driving out of a Walgreen's parking lot, a woman texting walked right in front of my car. Never even looked up. Humans are really stupid.
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Old 05-18-16, 06:08 AM
  #88  
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I think they influence each other in a positive way. I've owned a long list of sport bikes going back to a modified Honda 400 4cyl (70's man). One thing riding a motorcycle fast reinforces is counter steering. But I think the biggest positive between both is developing eye discipline. Where you look and what you look at (focus on) profoundly impacts how you ride.

Great reading material (for either) is "Twist of the Wrist" by Keith Code.
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Old 05-18-16, 10:39 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
I don't even know where to start with this. So wrong.
Well the motor cycle's disc brake didn't slice anyone up...

Last edited by Doge; 05-18-16 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 05-18-16, 11:13 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Well the motor cycle's disc break didn't slice anyone up...
...yet.
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Old 05-18-16, 11:23 AM
  #91  
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Never rode a bicycle until I was finished with my motorcycle racing days with WERA. I was shepherded into cycling by neighbor who, on our first few rides, could not believe my descending skills. I had no bike handling skills but I could bomb down hills and perfectly set my corner entry speeds and choose my lines and hit my marks. Motorcycling also helped me to always look ahead and through the corners, not just in front of my wheel. I would say the skills do translate especially for exploring the limits of traction and being aware that nobody is looking out for you.

Oddly enough while on my bicycle, I was also hit head on by a motorcyclist who missed his apex and target fixated on me while I was sitting at a stop sign.

Last edited by Number400; 05-18-16 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 05-18-16, 11:48 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76 View Post
... Where you look and what you look at (focus on) profoundly impacts how you ride....
I think what a rider of either bike trains their brain to notice depends a bit on the context they are in. Meaning if riding through and intersection with a green light near traffic, both the pedal powered and the motor I think are looking for the same thing. But in a motor racing context (which I know nothing about) or a bike race context, the focus is on different things like who is attacking, avoid that glass, am I about to touch wheels, or are my bars too close. Humans are amazingly adaptable, but the brain learns to look for things that are import to the activity... The riding on the busy road I see huge overlap between the motorcyclist and cyclist. The racing, not as much.
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Old 05-18-16, 11:54 AM
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Yes! motorcycling racing made it hard for me to learn bike racing. That being said, I was in a bike race before I ever even saw a bike race. Was not funny that in a crit, I went off the front at the whistle, got destroyed coming out of the last corner by the group, caught them all in the corners and got housed again down the straight then was gassed and finished behind a 74 year old.

Originally Posted by Doge View Post
I think what a rider of either bike trains their brain to notice depends a bit on the context they are in. Meaning if riding through and intersection with a green light near traffic, both the pedal powered and the motor I think are looking for the same thing. But in a motor racing context (which I know nothing about) or a bike race context, the focus is on different things like who is attacking, avoid that glass, am I about to touch wheels, or are my bars too close. Humans are amazingly adaptable, but the brain learns to look for things that are import to the activity... The riding on the busy road I see huge overlap between the motorcyclist and cyclist. The racing, not as much.
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Old 05-18-16, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Number400 View Post
Never rode a bicycle until I was finished with my motorcycle racing days with WERA. I was shepherded into cycling by neighbor who, on our first few rides, could not believe my descending skills. I had no bike handling skills but I could bomb down hills and perfectly set my corner entry speeds and choose my lines and hit my marks. Motorcycling also helped me to always look ahead and through the corners, not just in front of my wheel. I would say the skills do translate especially for exploring the limits of traction and being aware that nobody is looking out for you.

Oddly enough while on my bicycle, I was also hit head on by a motorcyclist who missed his apex and target fixated on me while I was sitting at a stop sign.
As an ex motorcycle racer, do you own/ride a motorcycle on the street?
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Old 05-18-16, 12:19 PM
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Nope. Quit riding motorcycles in 2008 or so. Was riding my bicycle more miles than I was putting on my motorcycle so I sold it. Had lot's of years of fun on motorcycles and thankful to walk away somewhat intact. Was hit by cars twice while riding motorcycles and had 25+ race crashes that I walked away from. Never crashed on my own on the road but tried I learned that racing makes you fast on the street and that's not a good thing.
Getting back to road biking again more and more after being hit but careful to not ride in busy traffic or at peak busy times. I actually think I lost the nerve of riding motorcycles on the highway. Not for speed but for being squashed between cars in stop and go traffic.



Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
As an ex motorcycle racer, do you own/ride a motorcycle on the street?

Last edited by Number400; 05-18-16 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 05-18-16, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Number400 View Post
Nope. Quit riding motorcycles in 2008 or so. Was riding my bicycle more miles than I was putting on my motorcycle so I sold it. Had lot's of years of fun on motorcycles and thankful to walk away somewhat intact. Was hit by cars twice while riding motorcycles and had 25+ race crashes that I walked away from.
Getting back to biking on the road again more and more after being hit but careful to not ride in busy traffic or at peak busy times. I actually think I lost the nerve of riding motorcycles on the highway. Not for speed but for being squashed between cars in stop and go traffic.
Same thing with me. You know how much nerve and talent it takes to race motorcycles and just like you, the thought of getting hurt when a car would appear out of nowhere from a side street...one slip..one inattention and pull out, and in a blink of an eye, a motorcycle rider's life is changed. I lost my nerve for street riding as well..or putting it another way, not nerve in myself, but no doubt like you, belief that car drivers can hurt us beyond any level of our control. I always tried to ride with a level of vigilance that would compensate for other's errors until I realized this wasn't possible. I did't want to donate an arm or a leg or inherent metal plates in the process. I didn't want to be that guy and they are everywhere.
Too bad about the double standard. If cars were as dangerous as motorcycles, we would all be safer because car drivers would be more careful. Reality is, most auto drivers get a do over every time they make a mistake because they are surrounded by a cocoon of metal.
Cheers brother.

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Old 05-18-16, 12:31 PM
  #97  
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I've been mulling this over since the original post a couple of weeks ago. I feel like I should have a good idea, since I rode motorcycles since I was 15, for about 10 years nothing but. Everything from trials bike to 1000cc, a bit of motocross racing. I was inclined to say it makes for a better cyclist, and vice versa, but honestly I don't think so. Riding motorcycles and bicycles are vastly different. I think that there's not a lot of cross-over in skills, judgement or even in handling and balance.
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Old 05-18-16, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Number400 View Post

Oddly enough while on my bicycle, I was also hit head on by a motorcyclist who missed his apex and target fixated on me while I was sitting at a stop sign.
Target fixation is the cause of a lot of bike racing crashes that I've seen & been in. Look at that pile of dudes on the ground, I think I'll join them.
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Old 05-18-16, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
Too bad about the double standard. If cars were as dangerous as motorcycles, we would all be safer because car drivers would be more careful. Reality is, most auto drivers get a do over every time they make a mistake because they are surrounded by a cocoon of metal.
Cheers brother.
I can't remember who the comedian was but his bit was along the lines of; if you really wanted to improve car safety have a sword deploy from the steering wheel instead of an air bag.
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Old 05-18-16, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76 View Post
Target fixation is the cause of a lot of bike racing crashes that I've seen & been in. Look at that pile of dudes on the ground, I think I'll join them.
One of the reasons I believe taking a motorcycle training course would help bike racers. Riders ride where they look. Motorcycle courses teach how to project the target well past the immediate turn.

Have you guys ever notice that when a bicycle rider coming from the other direction tends to focus on you that they actually ride toward you almost crossing the middle of the road? Same principle. People ride toward where they look.

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