First CF bike ride....some questions
 

A friend is letting me borrow his Bianchi Intenso 105 for a week or so. This is the first time I've ridden a CF bike. Yesterday I went out on a 23 mi., 1500 ft. elevation ride. I have some impressions and am hoping to get some feedback on whether my impressions are typical. The bike has Fulcrum wheels, which he describes as bulllet-proof but heavy, and Zaffiro Pro tires. The geometry in a size 57 was spot on for me. I found the ride to be smooth and comfortable, but the frame had this sonic resonance that made it "loud" for lack of a better word. My Colnago CX bike has the same 105 11-sp. group. I love the Colnago's, I did not like the Bianchi's. The front shift to the big ring was clunky with clanging mechanical noises. Works fine but not exactly elegant. The rear shifts were competent but strange. Shifts were very mechanical sounding generally but every once in a while it would shift and I couldn't tell if it actually had shifted. It was erratic and bothersome to me. After awhile the bike felt "heavy." I felt like I couldn't spin it up on the flats. Very frustrating. Climbing was good but my strength is the flats and it just felt like it didn't want to accelerate the way I"m used to on my Masi or Guru. When I got home I weighed it as ridden. It was 19 lbs 12 oz. Both my Masi and Guru weigh in at 19 lbs, so I don't think it was the 12 oz. Maybe the wheel set? My Masi has Ksyrium Elites and the Guru has Aksiums. Does any of this sound typical? TIA

That is pretty normal Put SRAM on there and you can hear it clunking 100 yards away.

5800 105 should work equally well whatever bike it is on. It is either set up wrong, cable routing is bad or housing is cut too long or too short. It could also be a mix up of parts vs a full 105 group. Are both bikes full 105?

Almost can't hear it shift is what you should get for RD on Shimano and not that noisy on the front either.

I'd suggest putting your wheels on that bike and see what differences that makes. A pound either way is not an issue.

The sounds you describe are the kind that happens when carbon fibers fatigue and voids begin forming in the layered matrix. The shell around them starts to overstretch and its acoustic resonance frequency shortens. The poor shifting is probably due to slight frame misalignment caused by the uneven expansion (probably due to non-symmetric UV exposure.) It also hard to spin up when your power is causing the thing to stretch and compress (think accordion,) it just completely zaps your efficiency and the worst part is that the harder you try the worse it gets. What does that mean? That an assplosion is imminent. My guess is your friend lent it to you so that it breaks while you're riding it and can therefore make you pay for it. You should give it back and run as fast as you can.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...31/223/b93.gif^

Every word PepeM says is true .... from a humorous perspective.

Well done, sir.

Yeah, the bike is a death trap, and asplosion waiting to happen. You might think ti is all heavy wheels and badly tuned derailleurs, but in fact, it is the frame, which is like over-chewed bubblegum---soft, no longer elastic, about to granulate. i would put the bike outside and have your friend come get it. When that thing blows it could do a fair bit of damage.

couldve been avoided with judicious application of suntan lotion

Carbon is loud. My madone with carbon wheels and campagnolo, sounds like a machine shop when you shift. I would expect the most profound difference to appear in sprints, climbs, and aggressive descents, where the torsional stiffness of the frame would be something you can feel. The best description of a really stiff frame I've heard is that it climbs "straight", and sort of leaps forward rather than sideways and forward under a grinding load. Similarly that stiffness makes the bike track better and in a hard corner it does what you tell it to more readily. There isn't enough difference in the weight of those bikes to experience any difference in the precieved weight of the bike. While it's true that the difference in a very light and a very heavy bike is a small percentage of the total weight of the bike and rider, a light bike moves under the rider in a way that feels as though it's climbing faster. A profound weight loss, like moving from a bike that weighs in the low 20's to a sub 14lb bike, may net increased climbing speeds, but it would be a matter of a few percent faster. IMO magazine reviews have made people think there will be a massive difference by the merit of it being carbon. I've ridden a lot of bikes, and the difference isn't nearly that large, even from entry level to the best there is. It's definitely noticeable and worth the upgrade (to a point), but the way bikes are reviewed you'd think anything short of all carbon and ultegra level parts would ride like a rusted out pick-up.

You didn't mention the age of the bike. Old carbon, IME, rides a lot like old steel with less weight. Soft ride quality, but not much get up and go either. It wasn't really until the late 2000s and early 2010s that carbon bikes became a lot stiffer and a lot lighter than alloy or high quality modern steel options.

My Tarmac and Roubaix make very little noise. I don't recall my Giant OCR-C making any strange or loud noises from the frame. My aluminum Cannondale was loud, that one you could hear coming up on you but not the Tarmac or Roubaix.
However, you mentioned heavy wheels. I remember when I went from Formula XSR-3s on the Giant OCR-C to the early version of Ksyrium Elites. It was a night and day difference in the performance of the bike, and me. I picked up at least 1/2 MPH average and I recovered from a long ride faster. So, IMHO, those wheels are hurting the performance of that Bianchi.

Yes. Sounds like the frame is no longer vertically stiff or laterally compliant. T-minus 37 miles until asplosion.

As much as I'm loving all the fun posts, it really just sounds like the bike needs a quick tune. Most of the noises you describe are pretty indicative of "cable stretch" (really housing compression). When the rear cable doesn't have enough tension, it tends to really clunk down into a smaller cog and make lots of noise ramping up to a larger cog. And same with the front. Noisy getting into the big ring and clunks down onto the small ring.

I would definitely expect a carbon frame to make a more hollow "thunk" with these shift conditions, but I'm thinking your usual bike is properly tuned and his bike needs to be.

^ This is exactly what I was going to say.

Plus those tires are about the worse someone can use for speed and comfort. I think one version is even sold as wire bead - the kind you might find on a department store bike. All those lousy wheels and I'm not surprised you found it feeling sluggish.

This is such utter garbage. Reported.

You and I both know Bianchi has a proprietary SPF 65 blend of resin sunscreen that they apply to all their carbon frames. This isn't a UV exposure issue at all.

They just designed the Intenso as a training bike that adds resistance through a unique nanotube matrix layer between the crabon and the sunscreen that "snaps back" against the force of your pedaling, so to go the same speed as a traditional bike requires at least 50-60 extra watts.

There are a couple adjustment screws on the rear derailleur of the Intenso that allow you to "tune" the nanotubes for resistance. This is a really clever feature by Bianchi. If you want less pushback, just loosen the screw labeled "L" (for "lower resistance") as much as you can.

The Zaffiro Pro tires on that Bianchi aren't doing it any favors.

A Rubino Pro III would be a very nice upgrade in terms of grip and comfort, and it would save 30 grams per tire.

Heavy wheels will kill any bike. Better tires and wheels are the #1 upgrade.


-Tim-

setting the CF BS aside. I think the bike felt slow to you because 1) heavy wheels, which make a bike feel slow to accelerate, 2) you didn't like the shifting, and that affected your subjective evaluation of the bike.

Does your Colnago have a Campy drive train? It may be you don't like the feel of Shimano shifting, or it may just be this bike wasn't adjusted particularly well.

There is another possibility that the CF frame is causing the slow feeling acceleration. A stiff CF frame can feel "dead" compared to a more flexible steel frame which feels "springy" The springy steel frame may actually be slower to accelerate (with the benefits of rigidity being a whole nother debate) but feel faster.

I have SRAM Red on my Guru and, although it is noisier than the Dura Ace on my Masi, it's nothing like your experience. The only wheels I have to replace the stock 11-sp are 10-sp. Will that work or will it at the very least require deraillleur adjustment?

I think generally you aren't going to be blown away by CF when you're coming from a fleet of really exceptionally nice steel/alloy bikes with excellent frames and drivetrains and then riding a low end CF bike with an out of tune drivetrain. I'd imagine the experience would be quite different if you were on an Oltre XR which is one of their current pro frames.

Shimano's latest 11 speed front aren't easy to get properly cabled.

Cabling involves an angle gauge, alignment pin, a "protrusion", etc...

If it's not installed correctly, it sucks. If it is setup proper, it's awesome.

:lol:

I love how people still think carbon is some sort of mystical material with alien properties. It's. A. Bike.

your sarcasm detector needs adjusting. I believe PepeM is basically saying the same thing you are.

Wow. I know that it is campaign season but that was delivered perfectly. Hillary, is that you?
OP--My first question is what were you and your friend thinking when you put Shimano on Colnago and Bianchi? Those bikes should recoil when Shimano comes near them. Honestly, others have touched on the state of the setup and tuning so I won't go there. Every bike and component has their own unique noises but they are typically subtle. I rode and aluminum Felt and currently ride a carbon Colnago. I have never noticed much of a difference in the road noise of either. Of course that could be because I outfitted my Colnago properly with Campy:)

To try to answer several posts in one reply......My Guru has Red derailleurs and my Masi has 12 yr. old Dura Ace. The Bianchi is 2 yrs. old and it's current owner got it new and is a former LBS owner. The Intenso frame is the same frame as the Infinito. My Masi has Ksyrium Elites w/Vittoria Open Corsas and the Guru has Aksiums w/Vittoria Open Corsas (320 TPI). My gut reaction was that it was about the wheels/tires. The shifting threw me though. I really like both my SRAM and Dura Ace for different reasons.

I was talking about the OP. Pepe's comment was genius.

You mean it's no longer "laterally stiff yet vertically compliant", right?

Half the time I don't know what I mean. The other half of the time I like cheeseburgers.

Well, unless you like burgers with cheddar and raw onions, you are an idiot. Just sayin' :)