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Carbon Endurance Road Bike with discs?

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Carbon Endurance Road Bike with discs?

Old 06-01-16, 06:01 PM
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Nomad2
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Carbon Endurance Road Bike with discs?

Hi,
My wife and I are feeling tempted, after all these years of watching carbon road bikes whizz by, to join their ranks (well maybe with a bit less whizzing).
A bit of background about us. Before kids we used to do 100km most days on weekends. We've both done Audax rides (though my wife has done a lot more than me). We also did a fair bit of Touring. We do quite a bit less now and can't ride together as much. Our training rides might be 20 to 50km (in shifts!) and we aim to do a couple of longer events each year (100 to 200km) if we can get some training in!

My current road bike is a Mongoose Omega steel bike from 1997 which had an upgrade in the mid 2000s to 27 speed Ultegra mech. It's super smooth on the flats but a bit dead on the climbs. My touring bike is a Fuji World 2004 model. It's touring geometry and lower gearing seem to make it a SEEM little more slower on the flats, but it is noticeably better (faster) for me to climb with. Overall no significant difference on average speed over time, but the Fuji has ended up being my go to bike for most rides. My wife really needs an upgrade more than me. She's still using her 1991 Repco Eurosport (14 speed Shimano 105)! Whilst she's had a lot of history with it, she would like a change. She also has a custom made touring bike (1999 build with 27 speed Ultegra/Deore XT) but she feels she is much slower on that.

We were thinking about the Giant Deft Advanced Pro 2, also possibly considering the Giant Avail Advanced Pro for my wife dependant on which geometry suits her best. We like the idea of having hydraulic discs having gotten used to them on our mtbs.

Can anyone comment on any of the following?

1. Have you noticed any major difference upgrading from a steel bike to carbon in terms of speed/efficiency?
2. Any comments on the Giant bikes mentioned above?
3. Any alternative suggestions? We'd like to stick with Ultegra mechanicals.

Of course upgrading is not necessary but.....

Anyway, any advice greatly appreciated!
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Old 06-01-16, 07:20 PM
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1: on race training rides and other spirited riding, a carbon race geometry bike with carbon race wheels feels more willing to accelerate. In reality I'm no faster than I was on steel, I've measured myself over the same courses. I can sprint to speed a little quicker but I'm not faster
2: I sold giant in the past, they're nice if you like the geometry.
3: in full disclosure I currently sell specialized, but the roubaix is getting a facelift at interbike this year. Given how the update to the Venge went, I'd be inclined to hold off and see what they're planning since you're looking in the long range bike market.

Trek Domane is also a nice bike
Specialized Diverge is also a fantastic bike. I can't keep them in stock.
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Old 06-01-16, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by CafeVelo View Post
1: on race training rides and other spirited riding, a carbon race geometry bike with carbon race wheels feels more willing to accelerate. In reality I'm no faster than I was on steel, I've measured myself over the same courses. I can sprint to speed a little quicker but I'm not faster
2: I sold giant in the past, they're nice if you like the geometry.
3: in full disclosure I currently sell specialized, but the roubaix is getting a facelift at interbike this year. Given how the update to the Venge went, I'd be inclined to hold off and see what they're planning since you're looking in the long range bike market.

Trek Domane is also a nice bike
Specialized Diverge is also a fantastic bike. I can't keep them in stock.
Any thoughts on the BMC GF series?
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Old 06-01-16, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by beermode View Post
Any thoughts on the BMC GF series?
It's supposed to be nice. I'll let you know if we pick the brand up and I get the chance to ride one. I know BMC used them in Roubaix, and people who own them say they're good. Can't really offer much more than that, BMC is underrepresented in my area (which is why we want to bring them in)
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Old 06-01-16, 07:37 PM
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OP,
Didn't mean to derail with the BMC question...but I rode the Specialized Roubaix several times in a few different trim levels. They are fantastic, they feel like they want to claw into the air on the first ascent up a hill.
I haven't ridden any of the Roubaix disc bikes yet. I rode a Diverge A1 (entry level Diverge), and it was fun. It just begs to be taken out. My LBS was pretty liberal about me trying out almost everything they had, even when I told them most they offered was out of price range.
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Old 06-01-16, 07:53 PM
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I went from a Specialized Roubaix to a lighter steel road bike and gained a little speed, but that was more Iikely due to me improving rather than the bike.

The ride on my modern steel road bikes is noticeably better than the Roubaix on our rough, chipseal roads.

If you like steel bikes, you owe it to yourself to check out what they are doing with modern steel bikes these days. They've made some significant improvements.
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Old 06-01-16, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomad2 View Post
Hi,
My wife and I are feeling tempted, after all these years of watching carbon road bikes whizz by, to join their ranks (well maybe with a bit less whizzing).
A bit of background about us. Before kids we used to do 100km most days on weekends. We've both done Audax rides (though my wife has done a lot more than me). We also did a fair bit of Touring. We do quite a bit less now and can't ride together as much. Our training rides might be 20 to 50km (in shifts!) and we aim to do a couple of longer events each year (100 to 200km) if we can get some training in!

My current road bike is a Mongoose Omega steel bike from 1997 which had an upgrade in the mid 2000s to 27 speed Ultegra mech. It's super smooth on the flats but a bit dead on the climbs. My touring bike is a Fuji World 2004 model. It's touring geometry and lower gearing seem to make it a SEEM little more slower on the flats, but it is noticeably better (faster) for me to climb with. Overall no significant difference on average speed over time, but the Fuji has ended up being my go to bike for most rides. My wife really needs an upgrade more than me. She's still using her 1991 Repco Eurosport (14 speed Shimano 105)! Whilst she's had a lot of history with it, she would like a change. She also has a custom made touring bike (1999 build with 27 speed Ultegra/Deore XT) but she feels she is much slower on that.

We were thinking about the Giant Deft Advanced Pro 2, also possibly considering the Giant Avail Advanced Pro for my wife dependant on which geometry suits her best. We like the idea of having hydraulic discs having gotten used to them on our mtbs.

Can anyone comment on any of the following?

1. Have you noticed any major difference upgrading from a steel bike to carbon in terms of speed/efficiency?
2. Any comments on the Giant bikes mentioned above?
3. Any alternative suggestions? We'd like to stick with Ultegra mechanicals.

Of course upgrading is not necessary but.....

Anyway, any advice greatly appreciated!
I have a 2015 Defy Advanced 2 and love it. The bike is stiff and responsive. I did upgrade the wheelset and I can accelerate, climb and hold speed so much better now. With the new wheels and GP4000 II's I've lowered the PSi F/B to 85psi. Ride is smooth!
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Old 06-01-16, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by CafeVelo View Post
1: on race training rides and other spirited riding, a carbon race geometry bike with carbon race wheels feels more willing to accelerate. In reality I'm no faster than I was on steel, I've measured myself over the same courses. I can sprint to speed a little quicker but I'm not faster
2: I sold giant in the past, they're nice if you like the geometry.
3: in full disclosure I currently sell specialized, but the roubaix is getting a facelift at interbike this year. Given how the update to the Venge went, I'd be inclined to hold off and see what they're planning since you're looking in the long range bike market.

Trek Domane is also a nice bike
Specialized Diverge is also a fantastic bike. I can't keep them in stock.
Thanks for the suggestion! I have the Roubaix SL4 Comp Disc in my sights as an option (nearest to the Giant). It's $400 more expensive and uses 105 chain and cassette and a non-Shimano Crankset on the downside but probably has other upsides? It's worth test riding to see if I prefer it anyway, and as you say the 2017 range may be different anyway.
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Old 06-01-16, 08:29 PM
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I've been considering a Roubaix for the past couple years and by all accounts, it's a great bike. I have noticed a lot of people who are cross-shopping it and the Domane end up getting the Domane. Not sure why, maybe Trek has better advertising. But the Domane this year is getting another round of improvements including some extra compliance in the front end.

2017 Trek Domane SLR: full tech details and first impressions | CyclingTips

I have also read a few folks who think that the Roubaix's thru-axle system is odd/proprietary and limits choices for wheels. I don't know if this matters or not, but here is one discussion:

2016 Specialized Crux cyclocross & Roubaix endurance road bikes gain thru axles, but they're weird - Bikerumor

- Mark
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Old 06-01-16, 09:03 PM
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Focus Cayo Disc Ultegra might be worth a look at.

pmcycles in Melbourne has them.
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Old 06-01-16, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tangerineowl View Post
Focus Cayo Disc Ultegra might be worth a look at.

pmcycles in Melbourne has them.
Thanks. I think the Cayo is more a racing bike than an endurance bike in terms of geometry. I'd prefer the higher handlebars for my neck & shoulders on longer rides.
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Old 06-02-16, 06:36 AM
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Why discs? If the reason for the upgrade to CF is to go faster, the major difference is going to be that the new bike will climb better because its lighter. Why give 1-2 pounds of that weight advantage back by putting disc brakes on it?
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Old 06-02-16, 07:05 AM
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There an article that you should read.

"In the know cycling some of the best 2016 endurance road bikes with disc brakes. "

Just Google it. Speaks very highly of the Advanced Pro 2
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Old 06-02-16, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Why discs? If the reason for the upgrade to CF is to go faster, the major difference is going to be that the new bike will climb better because its lighter. Why give 1-2 pounds of that weight advantage back by putting disc brakes on it?
Good Point. I guess for me it's a bit of a whim. I really appreciate them on my mtb and the confidence they give me when descending.

So how much of a part does weight of a bike play in terms of ease of climbing versus stiffness of the frame for power transfer? I'm wondering because my road bike is slower than my touring bike (climbing anyway) and though the touring bike may be slightly lighter (ironically), it has a Reynolds 853 frame versus the Tange double butted CrMo on the road bike.
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Old 06-02-16, 08:58 AM
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I think you'll see very little difference in speed from "efficiency" there's a whole debate whether stiffness increases power transfer. If there's any effect its very small.

5lb weight difference will make a small but noticeable difference climbing.

I just don't see paying thousands of dollars for that advantage, and giving half of it back for discs.

Modern high end calipers give you all the stopping power you can use and the ability to modulate it. Discs make sense on MTB's because of the environment they operate in. Issues like mud clearance aren't an issue for a road bike. Perhaps if you're going to descend a lot in the rain you could make a case for discs. Otherwise, IMHO, its added weight, cost, and complexity for little to no return.
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Old 06-02-16, 09:40 AM
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GT Grade, I got the SRAM Force model but you can get it also in Ultegra.
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Old 06-02-16, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Why give 1-2 pounds of that weight advantage back by putting disc brakes on it?
With current models, the weight penalty of discs is about 0.5 lbs, not 1-2.

- Mark
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Old 06-02-16, 10:15 AM
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Still, merlinextraligh must hate carrying half a pound up those steep Florida hills.
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Old 06-02-16, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
With current models, the weight penalty of discs is about 0.5 lbs, not 1-2.

- Mark
Are you counting the heavier fork, heavier frame modifications, more robust wheels, in addition to the weight of the brakes themselves?

VeloNews estimates the weight penalty at 250-750 grams. http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/...nswered_308954

Just looking around, you can find a lot of sub 15lbs carbon fiber road bikes at reasonable prices. The actual bikes I'm seeing with disc brakes are typically 17 pounds or more, without pedals. Amittedly not all the weight difference may be attributable to the discs, but whatever the reasons, the weights are what they are.


The Giant Defy Advanced 2 weighs 19.8 lbs, which may be as heavy or heavier than the OP's steel road bikes. http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/...efy-advanced-2

If the goal is to go faster in reasonable comfort, a good road bike well fitted to the OP, such as a Domane is going to be a better choice. A Domane 5.2 at 16.7lbs is 3lbs lighter than the defy, and 3bs lighter than a comparably priced Domane with disc brakes.
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Old 06-02-16, 10:41 AM
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The new Roubaix should be VERY interesting. I had a S-Works SL2 and now an Expert SL4 (non-disc) and will keep a close eye on the new Roubaix since I want discs. It's a fantastic bike, especially for long rides. The one important thing to consider is that Specialized introduced SCS spacing on their thru-axle frames. My Tarmac and CruX and QR and not SCS frames (though they come with SCS hangers and SCS wheels). When the frame itself is SCS-spaced, your wheel choices are very limited so be careful. That is the one thing that would have me looking at a non-Specialized endurance bike. There are just 2-3 other carbon brands I am interested in (Scott, BMC, Cervelo) when it comes to replacing my Roubaix SL4 but I have time since I have several bikes.
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Old 06-02-16, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Are you counting the heavier fork, heavier frame modifications, more robust wheels, in addition to the weight of the brakes themselves?

VeloNews estimates the weight penalty at 250-750 grams. The Torqued Wrench: 13 road disc brake questions, answered - VeloNews.com

Just looking around, you can find a lot of sub 15lbs carbon fiber road bikes at reasonable prices. The actual bikes I'm seeing with disc brakes are typically 17 pounds or more, without pedals. Amittedly not all the weight difference may be attributable to the discs, but whatever the reasons, the weights are what they are.


The Giant Defy Advanced 2 weighs 19.8 lbs, which may be as heavy or heavier than the OP's steel road bikes. Buyer's Guide: Giant Defy Advanced 2 | Bicycling

If the goal is to go faster in reasonable comfort, a good road bike well fitted to the OP, such as a Domane is going to be a better choice. A Domane 5.2 at 16.7lbs is 3lbs lighter than the defy, and 3bs lighter than a comparably priced Domane with disc brakes.
The review you refer to of the Giant Defy Advanced Pro 2 was for the 2015 model which had different wheels, mechanical disc brakes and perhaps other differences. The review of the 2016 model (cycling weekly - uk) puts the weight at 8.44kg or 18.6 lbs. Still heavy compared to the Domane 5.2 though. In reality, the bike I really needed disc brakes on was my touring bike. Descending mountain passes in Europe with the cantilever brakes it has was a bit scary and I do feel the road callipers are better than them... But I digress. Thanks for the idea.
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Old 06-02-16, 05:43 PM
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Oh, I should add though, that my Touring bike weighs a whopping 26 pounds and the road bike is similar but I don't recall the figure....
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Old 06-02-16, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
The Giant Defy Advanced 2 weighs 19.8 lbs, which may be as heavy or heavier than the OP's steel road bikes. Buyer's Guide: Giant Defy Advanced 2 | Bicycling
Wow, that's over a pound and half heavier than my steel bike.
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Old 06-02-16, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomad2 View Post
Thanks for the suggestion! I have the Roubaix SL4 Comp Disc in my sights as an option (nearest to the Giant). It's $400 more expensive and uses 105 chain and cassette and a non-Shimano Crankset on the downside but probably has other upsides? It's worth test riding to see if I prefer it anyway, and as you say the 2017 range may be different anyway.
they don't spec a shimano crank because it doesn't play as well with OSBB as some other aftermarket options. They're not cheating on the crank for price.
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Old 06-02-16, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarrett2 View Post
Wow, that's over a pound and half heavier than my steel bike.
Well, as mentioned above, the 2016 model is lighter though probably still slightly heavier than your bike. What is your steel framed bike?
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