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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

is this place dying

Old 06-23-16, 07:14 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Larry77 View Post
Could be that there are a ton of rude replies to easy to answer questions. I've been on message boards since I first had dial up and I've never seen a more condescending group than on here.

That said there are definitely some knowledgable, and kind people on here but I'm shocked at how little tolerance the majority has. I do not start many topics for this reason (also because I am very familiar with the "search function").
Agreed,this forum has way more than its share of 'bike nerds.'
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Old 06-23-16, 07:26 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by Larry77 View Post
Could be that there are a ton of rude replies to easy to answer questions. I've been on message boards since I first had dial up and I've never seen a more condescending group than on here.

That said there are definitely some knowledgable, and kind people on here but I'm shocked at how little tolerance the majority has. I do not start many topics for this reason (also because I am very familiar with the "search function").
Evidently you've never been on a programming forum.

I've got a fairly thick skin ... but I've yet to post a question on a programming forum. I'll read them, and locate what I'm looking for that way, but I'm not brave enough to post anything.

Bikeforums is a garden full of flowers and butterflies in comparison.
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Old 06-23-16, 07:34 PM
  #128  
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Here's a fine example of some of the issues here:

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...many-bugs.html


Brand new member, posts about a sort of corny but funny subject that we all experience (not like there's anything else exciting to read), no biggie, no drama, even get quite a a few serious replies, lighthearted scene, then naturally someone comes in calls him a troll and his thread gets locked with a comment telling him to do better. As if he did something wrong. The sense of humor has left the section.

The guy will probably never be back and I don't blame him. May as well have said "hey dude, get the hell out and don't come back".
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Old 06-23-16, 09:51 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
Why don't you enlighten the masses here and tell us what other website you are referring to?


FWIW this is the best cycling website on the web...not because of its software used, but rather in spite of it.
As to not attracting future newcomers...complete baloney. Cycling will only grow in popularity over time in American in particular and this site will continue to have a staunch following and grow its base of young riders as they learn about the sport.
I can't name it, it's censored. Hey, at 33 I'm pretty much an old fart when it comes to this internet stuff, but I know that people generally aren't flocking to message boards now. I agree that this place is great despite the interface, but I think it will never attract people like it did 10 or even 5 years ago.

Hopefully cycling does get bigger and bigger, but sites like this probably won't be on the forefront as they were in 2006. Still, that doesn't mean that this site can't be a great place for those that come here. I've popped in and out since 2005 and continue to be interested.

If there is less activity here, so be it, but it can still be a valuable meeting space for people who like hanging around. It just won't be the go-to place for younger people.
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Old 06-23-16, 10:09 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post


I don't believe many understand the banning thing and I admit it does test credulity at times. I have stated before that far and away, the people that get banned on this forum are my favorites. They are typically the most truthful and the most knowledgeable and generally have the best sense of humor. Translation? They threaten too many here.
knowledge is threatening to the uninformed.
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Old 06-23-16, 10:28 PM
  #131  
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Some of my favorite forums have died slow deaths mostly because of censorship.
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Old 06-23-16, 10:28 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by Ratzinger View Post
I can't name it, it's censored. Hey, at 33 I'm pretty much an old fart when it comes to this internet stuff, but I know that people generally aren't flocking to message boards now. I agree that this place is great despite the interface, but I think it will never attract people like it did 10 or even 5 years ago.

Hopefully cycling does get bigger and bigger, but sites like this probably won't be on the forefront as they were in 2006. Still, that doesn't mean that this site can't be a great place for those that come here. I've popped in and out since 2005 and continue to be interested.

If there is less activity here, so be it, but it can still be a valuable meeting space for people who like hanging around. It just won't be the go-to place for younger people.
+1 again ...

Many, especially the younger people, have moved into new technology and new ways of communicating.
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Old 06-23-16, 10:28 PM
  #133  
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Tom said it well


"Road Cyclists are in general highly competitive athletes, and can be a bit rough in their humor. Sarcasm and insults can and do occur, so you're going to need a bit of a thick skin in here. They aren't meant in malice (generally). It's just their aggressive, cutting humor, often with a razors edge. Think of them as an athletic versions of George Carlin, Billy Connolly, or Chris Rock. Just like riding with a new group of cyclists, it may be a good idea to sit in the back, to get a feel for the group, before you jump into the thick of things. "
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Old 06-23-16, 10:32 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by mercator View Post
Although I have enjoyed the yelling/waving/assploding crabon/400watts/best chain lube threads, I mostly just come here for the photo threads now.
Me too. What otherwise killed it for me were the endless, "I waved at a guy in full kit and expensive CF and he did not wave back" threads. Or its twin sister, "the other day I beat the snot out of a guy in full kit and riding an expensive CF bike, I was wearing only flip flops and beach shorts when I smoked this roadie."

Most of the people here are good people though.
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Old 06-23-16, 10:37 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by 16 Tons View Post
Some of my favorite forums have died slow deaths mostly because of censorship.
Censorship is understandable, but overmoderation is a bigger problem.

BillyD does a good job, but some people need a little thicker skin. Why complain to a mod unless it's absolutely necessary?
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Old 06-23-16, 11:14 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by Larry77 View Post
Could be that there are a ton of rude replies to easy to answer questions. I've been on message boards since I first had dial up and I've never seen a more condescending group than on here.

That said there are definitely some knowledgable, and kind people on here but I'm shocked at how little tolerance the majority has. I do not start many topics for this reason (also because I am very familiar with the "search function").
I agree totally with you. I have been active on many classic car forums for the past 15 years and every single one has been way more sincere and respectful than this one overall. The forum itself is great from a design and functionality standpoint and I use it at least weekly to search something and generally reply only if I have something concrete to add (I guess I broke that rule for THIS post though!). I really think it comes down to the fact that the cycling culture is full of egos and this is one place to stroke them publicly.

How many times have you seen some newbie get scolded for posting a pic of their bike and the crank arms are not rotated in the proper degree or some other misalignment ...ummm yeah that's productive.... I fully realize it is a choice to come here or not and I'm old enough to have learned to ignore the background noise and just use it as a tool.
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Old 06-24-16, 04:48 AM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by SpeshulEd View Post
Have you ever been on the site? It has a message board for everything.

r/cycling
r/bicycling
r/bikewrench
r/bikeporn
r/biketouring

If there's a subforum for it here, there's one on that site, plus 40 others you couldn't even think of.
Just because fred-dit has a forum, doesn't mean its as good as this site in terms of knowledable members. Amount of traffic doesn't matter either in terms of a sites worth other than generating revenue for advertisers. Websites have demographics and cultures. As discussed the moniker of 'road cycling' is a broad tent and with it the demographic is broad, diffuse which can be somewhat intolerant of different backgrounds...kind of a metaphor for America...lol. Other side of the coin, it ain't China or North Korea with its beyond awful homogeneity and conformity and single mindedness. Where is the fun in that?
This place is a mix of experienced and inexperienced which is OK. One thing I like about this place is, if you have a question about cycling....from aerodynamic drag...to best diet for cycling...to how to train....to bike riding position...to tradeoffs between different bike kit from frames to BB's to wheelsets...its all covered. The broad demographic here isn't a monolith...it brings a diverse perspective...not just WW's morons preoccupied with grams on a bicycle...or 50+ guys trying to figure out how to ride into the sunset in their golden years.
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Old 06-24-16, 05:07 AM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by igosolo View Post
I agree totally with you. I have been active on many classic car forums for the past 15 years and every single one has been way more sincere and respectful than this one overall. The forum itself is great from a design and functionality standpoint and I use it at least weekly to search something and generally reply only if I have something concrete to add (I guess I broke that rule for THIS post though!). I really think it comes down to the fact that the cycling culture is full of egos and this is one place to stroke them publicly.

How many times have you seen some newbie get scolded for posting a pic of their bike and the crank arms are not rotated in the proper degree or some other misalignment ...ummm yeah that's productive.... I fully realize it is a choice to come here or not and I'm old enough to have learned to ignore the background noise and just use it as a tool.
Every web forum culture can be explained by its demographic. If someone here doesn't understand something...like why a given culture is the way it is...it is a reflection on them and not the culture. The broad tent of road cyclists isn't basket weaving or even how to build a fast computer...or a classic car forum which will vary in culture even from a dedicated Porsche forum...or Ducati motorcycle forum...and even different than a Corvette forum...or classic motorcycle forum. Mentalities and temperaments are different and can even be explained. All the luddites here who love steel bikes at the exclusion of more contemporary materials are not unlike the vintage motorcycle guys who shun modern technology...who are mired in the past and where they want to be. A sub group of road cyclists...guys with $5K-$10K bikes with $500 kit with helmet, sunglasses with $200 shoes...aren't like guys on a classic car forum. They are competitive guys and arguably even borderline narcissistic...maybe even a little OCD...who care about body fat and fitness and like to ride fast and compete with others of similar mind. Ever ride in the A group? The culture of a A group isn't the same as the mentality of the smell the roses C group who care less about crushing the souls of fellow riders. Even within A groups this mentality can vary. There are eat their young A groups and more congenital A- groups which is fast guys with more decorum who aren't as focused with dropping others to assert their fitness superiority.


So guys that like to ride fast...the purpose of a road bike versus a cruiser...and put themselves into a more aggressive position on the bike....aren't guys who like to putt around in classic cars and show the world how cool their car is. Their mentality is different.


That said, all forums....facebook is a cesspool....twitter is replete with hateful posts....all forums have a lot of acrimony because people aren't face to face. So true feelings come out uncensored or without emasculation. This doesn't sit well with many who don't like their point of view challenged. In today's society, when people don't agree about something, there is further obfuscation of the truth. Racism is many times scapegoated at the core of why people don't agree when the reality is, people have different perspective on things including how problems should be solved.
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Old 06-24-16, 05:17 AM
  #139  
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Specialized forums require a certain investment on behalf of new users.

One must register, confirm, adopt the style/customization of the software, and to some extent the 'culture' of the community.

Using a platform like Facebook, or some catch-all super board, people already have accounts, already know the interface, already check on everyday basis.

No cross pollinating accounts and logins all over the place
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Old 06-24-16, 06:03 AM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Evidently you've never been on a programming forum.

I've got a fairly thick skin ... but I've yet to post a question on a programming forum. I'll read them, and locate what I'm looking for that way, but I'm not brave enough to post anything.

Bikeforums is a garden full of flowers and butterflies in comparison.
You should post there if you have a question and take your lumps if you get them undeserved. It doesn't matter all said. Programmers are smart guys with a self esteem problem so you get what you get.


I have always been interested in technology and build computers avocationally and am a tech head even though you would never pick me out of this line up. I look like an aging surfer. So I go onto computer sites and ask questions when I get stumped from time to time and if taking this dive, everybody will. People need to leave their ego at the door. Not the guys that rain down terror undeserved...the smart guys with all the answers...you can't control them...but rather your and my ego. Forget it. Go in with best intentions and if you take some lumps...call it hazing so what? It only bothers those with ego problems. Can't control others.
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Old 06-24-16, 06:46 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
You should post there if you have a question.
I can find my answers without posting in those forums, thanks.
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Old 06-24-16, 07:02 AM
  #142  
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I've been here nearly a decade now, and have wondered about the diminishing vitality as well. Kids, grad school, and writing a book, along with multiple moves, diminished me activity, but when I came back, it didn't feel the same. I wondered what had happened to all the more vital personalities.

Additionally, has the atomization of the forum diminished activity? So many sub-forums, it creates more fences and divides, more isolated eco-systems for people to filter down to a narrow topic with fewer chances of stumbling upon a novel and interesting thread. The more boisterous elbow rubbing has, perhaps, been categorized away. Efficiency has silenced activity. But, the efficiency makes it far easier for forum newbies to navigate, which in turn is good for the continued life of this board.
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Old 06-24-16, 07:09 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
What's gets me is how people dismiss good, informative posts because they don't agree with them for some reason....If someone wants to know about grass roots/amateur racing, Doge is the one to talk to. He is in it deep as we speak. But if he gives someone an honest answer they don't like, they just blow smoke.
See this kind of post is kind of silly. I am a person who frequently disagrees with Doge about racing stuff here on BF. (Mostly training, actually.) He has more experience that me, but I'm coming at it from a different perspective, and what I have to say is valuable as well. Doge is the type of BF who can still enter into a conversation with me, not be threatened, not become upset, not be insulted. We can still be friends both on & off BF. I'm not "blowing smoke" because I disagree with him. I often read what he posts and think about it, I wonder even if on things we disagree on now if someday I might change my perspective.

So I don't post counterpoints to things he says to annoy him, I do it because we're having a conversation. Conversation is the point of a forum. Concluding that Doge is the one source here on BF to provide info about amateur racing is not only incorrect but counter to what the idea of a forum is about.
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Old 06-24-16, 08:06 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Banzai View Post
I've been here nearly a decade now, and have wondered about the diminishing vitality as well. Kids, grad school, and writing a book, along with multiple moves, diminished me activity, but when I came back, it didn't feel the same. I wondered what had happened to all the more vital personalities.

Additionally, has the atomization of the forum diminished activity? So many sub-forums, it creates more fences and divides, more isolated eco-systems for people to filter down to a narrow topic with fewer chances of stumbling upon a novel and interesting thread. The more boisterous elbow rubbing has, perhaps, been categorized away. Efficiency has silenced activity. But, the efficiency makes it far easier for forum newbies to navigate, which in turn is good for the continued life of this board.
Is it really a mystery why vital personalities no longer come here? Many have been banned. Censorship. Btw, no affront on the moderation here as has been explained previously. There are advertisers to protect as well in terms of controlling decorum. When other vital personalities see the dynamic you mention, they don't see the point. I have stated before my favorite posters have been banned from here. A long list. If you think about, this forum is simply a microcosm of society. Political correctness has a cost in society as well. You see it now in the outcry and what has created the presumptive repub nominee. Controlling the narrative...people resent it. The UK is no different than the US including exit from the EU which has caused stocks to tumble this morning.

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Old 06-24-16, 08:07 AM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
I can find my answers without posting in those forums, thanks.
and similarly, most answers about cycling can be found with a google search as well.
thanks
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Old 06-24-16, 08:20 AM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post
See this kind of post is kind of silly. I am a person who frequently disagrees with Doge about racing stuff here on BF. (Mostly training, actually.) He has more experience that me, but I'm coming at it from a different perspective, and what I have to say is valuable as well. Doge is the type of BF who can still enter into a conversation with me, not be threatened, not become upset, not be insulted. We can still be friends both on & off BF. I'm not "blowing smoke" because I disagree with him. I often read what he posts and think about it, I wonder even if on things we disagree on now if someday I might change my perspective.

So I don't post counterpoints to things he says to annoy him, I do it because we're having a conversation. Conversation is the point of a forum. Concluding that Doge is the one source here on BF to provide info about amateur racing is not only incorrect but counter to what the idea of a forum is about.
Maybe I should have phrased it as "blows smoke, makes it personal and complains to the mod?" That is what I see more often than not. Nothing wrong with disagreement, but people go into personal attack mode quickly now.
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Old 06-24-16, 08:37 AM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
Just because fred-dit has a forum, doesn't mean its as good as this site in terms of knowledable members...One thing I like about this place is, if you have a question about cycling....from aerodynamic drag...to best diet for cycling...to how to train....to bike riding position...to tradeoffs between different bike kit from frames to BB's to wheelsets...its all covered.
That is one thing to be said about this forum. There is an incredible depth of knowledge and experience. As newer technology and platforms cater more to our shorter attentions, they offer fewer opportunities for breadth and depth. (huge generalization, but there is some truth there, I think). I don't know if anyone here is arguing that Fred-it is better, per se, but we're all just acknowledging that the bulletin board format is not the only game around anymore, and that accounts for some change here.

May I add, it's pretty hilarious that we now have an acceptable stand-in for a non-swear word censored word. I can understand censoring swear words, though it's not my preference, but why censor other things? That is another thing the rest of the internet has left behind.
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Old 06-24-16, 08:46 AM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by Ratzinger View Post
That is one thing to be said about this forum. There is an incredible depth of knowledge and experience. As newer technology and platforms cater more to our shorter attentions, they offer fewer opportunities for breadth and depth. (huge generalization, but there is some truth there, I think). I don't know if anyone here is arguing that Fred-it is better, per se, but we're all just acknowledging that the bulletin board format is not the only game around anymore, and that accounts for some change here.

May I add, it's pretty hilarious that we now have an acceptable stand-in for a non-swear word censored word. I can understand censoring swear words, though it's not my preference, but why censor other things? That is another thing the rest of the internet has left behind.
Oh you wait. Wait for a completely sanitized society controlled by artificial intelligence. Every statement here can be controlled by an algorithm including combination of sentences which can automatically be edited to make them more benign. Billy is going to lose his job which btw he will likely gladly donate ...and eventually so will doctors who will be replaced by robots with a vastly broader data base.

A brief comment about the pitfall of lack of censorship... Let's call it lawlessness or anarchy or the ISIS of posting on the web. I have seen it in the context of even a cycling forum a few years back. I believe the forum was called cyclingforums...or something like that...I can't remember the name of the site honestly. It was beyond repugnant. There was no moderation. Name calling was the order of the day. The site was inhabited by trolls who were hateful. It was almost farcical the rhetoric was so over the top. I admit to being incredulous that a site like that even existed on the web and I would go there occasionally for the shock value alone....to see just how despicable people could be. So there is a balance...in fact, an impossible balance. We are seeing this impossible balance today in America played out on cable TV 24/7. Why the intolerance and the hate? Stratification of socio economic status. Have's colliding with the have nots. No different than the middle east clashing with the West. How do you tamp this down or try to by a narrative of denial? Political correctness which nobody believes. Those that feel disenfranchised for not being part of the American dream demand it. But it is in effect a lie and even covers up the root cause of the malaise and why it can't stand as truth.

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Old 06-24-16, 09:05 AM
  #149  
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I love that this thread is 6 pages long.
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Old 06-24-16, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by walkson2wheels View Post
i love that this thread is 6 pages long.
Now 7 pages

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