jslopez

Disclaimer: I'm a 9 month experience rider who is always looking to learn more.

Would be lesson for today, hill climbing.

I have been riding with the thought that spinning up a hill is better than standing up and mashing (less effort to spin and I've become decent at getting the cadence up). My favorite hill is this relatively short but steep hill at Pacific coast highway going to Pepperdine. While I know that there are A LOT of people who are stronger than me, my experience has been if I can pass a guy spinning and he's standing then I'll most likely get to the top first.

This wasn't the case today. I passed a guy halfway up the hill who was mashing all the way and he simply pushed harder, caught up and then passed me (edit : this hill wasn't the rolling type wher you have momentum). I'm now a big admirer (especially since he later said that he rides roughly 100 miles a day) but I just wanted to see if I should be trying to stand more in the hopes of getting stronger? Or am I at the right path and should just pay my dues as I will get stronger in the future?

Hopefully this isn't too silly a query but thoughts are appreciated.

Jakey

Do whatever feels the best for you. Spinning is better for your knees in the long run, though mashing will probably build muscles faster. I just recently went from a triple to a double...so where I could spin before, on some hills I gotta get up and hammer..

flyingasics

For me its just how good I feel that day, most hills around here don't need that much mashing. If its a really long hill, like 1.5-2 miles long, I will spin until my cadence falls under like 80 and then stand up, shift up and mash away.
When riding with a group, i've found that If I mash up it I can beat most people and have time to slow up a bit up at the top and let my heart rate come down a bit, letting them catch up to me. if I spin up easy I can keep up and stick with em at the top anyways. So I guess it dosen't matter to me if I mash or spin, lol my post was worthless in helping you out sorry but I am goingto post it anyways

Enthalpic

If the ride will be long spinning is the best idea so you dont blow up your legs and bonk. However if the ride is only an hour or so you might as well have fun and mash a bit.

jslopez

Thanks guys was a long ride with mostly rollies and flats, highlight being a few choice hills.

Whenever I see hills that I wont be powering thru my usual style is to go to the 39-23 and spin, going on to the harder gears if the spin is too easy or if I want the extra speed. A follow up question is I tend to spin high (sometimes 100 rpm) should I go to the harder gears and aim to be spinning at around 80rpm?

TheKillerPenguin

It depends on what you want to accomplish, how long and steep the climb is, what your mood is, how you're feeling, if you got more to ride afterwards, if its windy...etc....

I used to stand and mash a lot of the way up my climbs. I could do it, but by the time I got up to the top I was wiped. I've been forcing myself to sit down for my climbs now (unless its a small one, in which case I stand and sprint over), and find that while at the moment I go a bit slower than mashing, by the time I get to the top I don't want to fall over and die. Thanks to the change, I've gone from being able to climb 500ft or so without feeling drained a month ago to doing 4000ft today, and I could have easily kept on going.

I guess what I'm saying is just experiment with different styles and see what works best for you. Everyone's different, so everyone's gonna have a different way.

jslopez

Ooops I'm sorry with all the "Lance spins up hills" hype I always thought that one could technically spin with the same speed as a guy who mashes, advantage spinner cause he uses less effort. Maybe I misunderstood this concept.

lilHinault

You mash up a hill, you spin up a mountain.

terrymorse 

FYI, the average climbing cadence for riders in the Tour de France: 70 rpm.

Average climbing cadence for the "best climbers" in the Tour de France: 80 rpm.

Mashing accomplishes nothing over spinning, and it will fatigue your muscles more quickly. Mash only on short rollers, where the short duration won't cause enough fatigue to make a difference.

F1_Fan

Advantage: spinner because he's using less muscle groups, producing less lactic acid in the muscles he is using and relying on the cardio-vascular system. However, everyone has their limits and abilities. I might be faster than you if I grind or spin no matter what you try Also, no two hills are the same.

A piece of advice I read a long time ago said you could stand for hills less than 200m (if you wanted) but should sit for those that are longer.

giantbike

When it comes to hill I will usually doing either way depending on the day.But I found mashing for me is best doing when seat, by that I mean mashing much bigger gear with lower cadence on the saddle rather than standing,and I can go much quicker than standing.But I will usually stand to get a bit of change of using different mussle and relieve the other tired mussle,and I found best to use this standing technic when the hill levels out a bit in a long hill.

my58vw

F1 Fan is right... if the hill is small like a roller or a striaght up climb I will just mash up the hill, either out of the saddle or just dit and push hard. If the hill is long then I will spin as long as I possibly can then mash out of the saddle and repeat.

This does not apply to racing though. When racing I do what ever gets me to the top faster... which is usually mashing, generally because when someone attacks I feel I have more power when I am pushing a little harder gear than spinning at 100 RPMs or so...

For time trials... it just hurts so it does not really matter!

TheKillerPenguin

Doesn't LA mash up good portions of his climbs? And if its true that he does, doesn't that prove that mashing can be at least as good as sitting, provided you spend enough time training that way?

burtonbiker

Last summer was my first summer of good hard riding ; about 3/4 thru we started "attacking" on short hills instead of just surviving/spinning - IT WAS FUN! And it also added alot of mental confidence that we had alternatives to just spinning. After you've ridden a bit more this summer, try it.

26mi235

Several points. First, you are new, so mashing can be hard on the connective tissue and even the muscles, which have not had enough time to strengthen. Second, (Terry), it is more efficient more most riders to sit rather than stand, but many riders mash for at least part of the way on longer hills.

What you do in a race and in training are two different things. In training, the fact that standing is "less efficient" is not nearly so relevant. Overall, I would say that over time you stand and mash some for training purposes while doing the majority of the climb sitting. You can get more power standing, which is why it "feels right" to many riders. Try sitting for the hill until the top and than stand and push hard OVER the top of the hill until you get speed for the flat or decent. You will find that you suddenly gap peple that are climbing with you.

26mi235

No, is not necessarily a good inference from seeing Lance stand that mashing is good. First, I think that he stands when he attacks, but he sits and spins more than most. Second, I think he spins faster than the averages cited by Terry above, probably closer to 90+.

Third, there are some riders that can be very efficient while standing, Richard Virenque was the epitome of this style of rider. It is my impression that "standing climbers" tend to be further "back", not high over the handlebars but over the seat (go look at some footage to confirm). This style might require that the bike setup be a little different than standard in terms of the bar placement, but I am not sure.

Finally, the advantages of sitting apply not soley to that cllimb but to the last climbs of the day and to climbs the next day because the recovery is better, as you are stressing the cariovascular system and not the muscles. On rides with a dozen climbs, there are riders that will out climb me on the first few hills, but by the end they cannot maintain the power they had earlier in the ride, while spinning does not take as much of a toll. A second factor here is that I am very light and so my work rate is not so high and I am not red-lineing as much.

TheKillerPenguin

Okay, sorry bout that.

My point was that perhaps most people don't try out all their options when they learn to climb, as they are told sitting is the only good way. Maybe some would be better standing most of the way, but will never know because they were told don't try it. Like I said before, everyone's different, so everyone has their own style that works for them.

aikigreg

Heh. You said sit and spin...

SpongeDad

[QUOTE=jslopez]Disclaimer: I'm a 9 month experience rider who is always looking to learn more.

Would be lesson for today, hill climbing.

I have been riding with the thought that spinning up a hill is better than standing up and mashing (less effort to spin and I've become decent at getting the cadence up). [QUOTE]

I tend to make it a progression. As my cadence climbs on a particular hill, I find that by the time I'm averaging 100rpm, I'm ready to go up a gear or sometimes 2 and start the progression again. I'm not a big power guy, so taking small whacks at it like this is the only way I've been able to get my speed on hills up.

RiPHRaPH

try it all. climb standing, sitting, back on the seat, high cadence, lower cadence, etc.

when you are caught in the wrong gear you'll know it.

it will all help you. no two climbs are the same, so you will use it all.

a 160lb guy and a 200lb guy can't climb the same way.

don't spin out, but don't bog yourself down either.

DC_Emily

This is kind of off the subject, jslopez, but this guy told you he rides about 100 miles a day?! must have alot of free time on his hands!!

Anywho, mashing gets easier as you get stronger (obviously) and is best for short climbs where you want to keep your momentum. Everyone here's given great advice.....good luck!

26mi235

No Sorry needed as the combination of comments adds to the overall picture. I tried to say, but not so clearly as you, that trying all of the options to see how they work and develop methods that work for you is the way to go. You can pay heed to what is the "right answer by some measure", but don't swallow it whole and ignore other ways to do things. By the way, are you a Linux guy?

TheKillerPenguin

Nope! XP for me. I just like Penguins

PhatRoadie

Everyone does it differently.

What works for me is staying in the saddle except on really short >300m hills.

Also during long climbs of 3+ kms, I will alternate between sitting and standing to spread the work around the muscle groups.

Swiss Hoser

Well written. I agree.
Keep in mind, though, one man's mash is another man's spin.