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Chinese/Taiwanese carbon frame DIY builders #2

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Chinese/Taiwanese carbon frame DIY builders #2

Old 03-24-17, 09:50 PM
  #276  
zymphad
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This situation is so bizarre. Sales manager is telling me it was definitely shipped express, by plane.

My question, how does a plane take FOURTEEN DAYS to go from China to NY. Well more, since it's still not in NY. No one knows where it is. How does a logistics company not know where a package is? As said, this situation is bizarre.

Also she doesn't seem to care even though bank has confirmed their dispute has gone through. So it's on them if they want the money as the bank and paypal has seen it prudent to side with me, considering the 1.5 month wait time + two weeks of shipping time with no product.

What surprised me most was, they delayed the shipping over two weeks. Most companies would then try to get it to the customer as fast as possible with reasonable costs. But they send it by a method that is now over two weeks? It's the exact opposite of what I would have expected. It's almost like intentional punishment.

I had asked previously if they could upgrade the shipping and I would pay extra for it. That went on deaf ears. It's frustrating all around.

Last edited by zymphad; 03-24-17 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 03-25-17, 07:18 AM
  #277  
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If package is being held by custom after landing in USA, that's really beyond the shipper's control.
Custom inspection of packages can take up to many days, plus extra tax/tariff payment due for recipient of package.
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Old 03-25-17, 09:14 AM
  #278  
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At this point I am pretty sure this is a troll post.

More seriously .... have you identified the airline? And called them? Have yo identified the port of entry and called customs there?

I see two choices: sue the company or refuse to pay--i.e. fight financially; or turn into a detective and track the thing down.

I am not clear on how the Paypal dispute was resolved, but tat this point I might tell Paypal, "I refuse to pay" and if the frame shows up, just keep it--let it be on your conscience f you pay or not, or how much.

Tell WW, "I have stopped payment. YOU guys find the bike, You guys find out what the problem is, and then, Maybe, send me a message when it is at a local shipper (post office likely.) Then I might pay for it. Until you can tell me the exact location with a phone number I can call to check, don't bother jerking me around with lies any more."

Also, send them two or six emails every day to the main site and to every person you have had any dealings with, and ask them, "Where is my bike."

My cable guide broke--freak occurrence, no impact, no damage, just cracked. I sent a polite email, then another one ... then started sending one a day to everybody. The second day of that i got a response.

In the header, put, "No bike, no cash---work this out now!"

I think you deserve some discount at the very least for all they have put you through. As I have said, I have Never heard of WW doing this .... but even if this is the first time, it should not be tolerated. Their job isn't selling bike frames but rather is getting those bike frames to the doors of their customers in good condition and in a timely fashion. That is part of the job, and if they don't do it, they haven't earned their salaries.

If you possess sufficient patience ... well I honor you for that. I would have ripped out all my hair and half my teeth. If you can wait another unspecified period ... well, I can tell you this ... when the box finally arrives you will be amazed.

When I got mine it seemed empty ... the box weighed more than the bike frame. The reality of a 900-gram, frame in your hand is shocking----it doesn't seem real that a bike frame could weigh so little.

Fully built up, I can lift my bike with one finger ... and it is a relatively heavy build.
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Old 03-25-17, 10:16 AM
  #279  
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Not sure how WW works. But when I ordered iPads and iPhones and they had to ship it straight from China and I got it within 2 days - I don't think it even went through U.S. custom.

A question to WW purchasers - did it reached U.S. custom before it was shipped to you? I was just wondering.
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Old 03-25-17, 12:07 PM
  #280  
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Originally Posted by cat0020 View Post
If package is being held by custom after landing in USA, that's really beyond the shipper's control.
Custom inspection of packages can take up to many days, plus extra tax/tariff payment due for recipient of package.
This is a bike frame, nothing for customs to do but say, OK keep going. 10 second X-ray would show it's not a bomb.

Also never paid extra from China, so no issue there either.


Originally Posted by JMH714 View Post
Not sure how WW works. But when I ordered iPads and iPhones and they had to ship it straight from China and I got it within 2 days - I don't think it even went through U.S. custom.

A question to WW purchasers - did it reached U.S. custom before it was shipped to you? I was just wondering.
Same, EMS Express from China for me has never taken more than 5 days. I have ordered frame before, it goes through US customs first.

Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I see two choices: sue the company or refuse to pay--i.e. fight financially; or turn into a detective and track the thing down.

I am not clear on how the Paypal dispute was resolved, but tat this point I might tell Paypal, "I refuse to pay" and if the frame shows up, just keep it--let it be on your conscience f you pay or not, or how much...
I have done all of the above. I told them multiple times, if you don't ship it on day you said you would, I'll be forced to dispute. That threat didn't work. After two weeks gone with EMS, I told them I had now spoken with bank and the dispute filed. I had also spoken with Paypal so they are aware of the case as well.

Last night I told them, yes the dispute went through, the charge was cancelled. If you want your money, you're gonna have to do something soon, cause even if it arrived 2 weeks later from now, so it would not be about 2.5 months late, I'm not paying.

What is bizarre they haven't contacted EMS to try to expedite the shipping. I know the shipper can change the shipping method. This is awful, especially since I offered to pay for this.

I also expressed that disappointment. I said, you had initially said it would be shipped Feb 22nd. Then 28th, then March 4th, and finally didn't do it until March 11th. Any other company would have tried to make up for it by expediting shipping to guaranteed overnight or 2nd day. But no, you shipped it so slow, it's still not in US it's now been two weeks. I don't know how your CS works.

I also mentioned that when I realized they were delaying shipping over two weeks after the date I was told, I had asked, hey I want to pay more for expedited shipping. Please ship express DHL. Yeah, that went on deaf ears. Weird since they claim they do offer DHL shipping.

Last edited by zymphad; 03-25-17 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 03-25-17, 12:30 PM
  #281  
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Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
This is a bike frame, nothing for customs to do but say, OK keep going. 10 second X-ray would show it's not a bomb.
LOL ... i figured it out ... and it Is All Your Own Fault.

Homeland Security has your bike. They are trying to figure out what makes it a "Chinabomb."



Seriously, at this point, take the bike when it arrives and pay nothing. Send Workswell a note saying you will be happy to consider them when buying your next frame ... since the price was so nice this time.

Time is money, I hear, so you have already paid.
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Old 03-25-17, 05:25 PM
  #282  
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What is so odd is that none of the problems with WW have precedent...not just not all, but not any.
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Old 03-25-17, 06:03 PM
  #283  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
What is so odd is that none of the problems with WW have precedent...not just not all, but not any.
I have asked why so many on BikeForums got their frames quickly without issues.

Reply was: Don't worry, this is normal. Some quick, but this is normal.
Me: Uh, Bikeforums dude ordered AFTER me, and he got his frame two weeks ago!
Reply: This is normal, you wait.
Me: I dispute and get my money back. This normal when I don't get what I paid for!
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Old 03-26-17, 10:21 AM
  #284  
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There's must be more in the story than they told you... There's must be some reason your order delayed while others got theirs quickly and I don't think "this is normal" really answered to your question. Have you tried talk to their supervisor? Or anybody higher than those order takers that can explain the whole reason. I think you deserved one.
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Old 03-26-17, 11:10 AM
  #285  
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Originally Posted by JMH714 View Post
I think you deserved one.
There is a perfect example of a step too far.

How can nay of us judge what he "deserves"? By what system of values? We don't know what is going on ... yet we feel free to judge the guy's behavior?

Sorry but that is beyond irrational.

here is a rule of thumb: if you still have questions about what is going on, you are not yet ready to draw conclusions about what is going on.

Unless you are one of those people who really enjoy talking about what you don't know about. Most people are it seems.

I don't even know if this is a troll thread. Maybe this guy never even ordered a frame. Maybe he messed up the Paypal account or messed up his address or ... anything.

Whatever.

Maybe WW screwed up. the fact that none of us have heard of this happening with Workswell ... I think all of us have heard of similar things happening at other places, so it isn't unprecedented.

Maybe WW waited until they had a sizable order, or didn't want to lay up another run of frames until they got more orders. Then maybe the shipper wanted to wait until they had a full container.

Maybe the shipper mixed up stuff in the container, mislabeled something ... any one else here ever worked in shipping? It happens.

Maybe some odd box (his bike) with two conflicting and inaccurate labels, got sent to a couple different places ... then maybe some guy on a loading dock somewhere didn't know where to send it, and the shipper wouldn't take it back, and no one wanted to take responsibility, and no one wanted to call China ... so it got stuck in a corner of the loading dock and sat there for a couple weeks ...

And no one wanted to admit they had stuck in a corner so everyone ignored it, and none of the people along the way wanted to admit they had delivered it to an address which they couldn't read or weren't sure about. When the guy loading the truck saw it had two labels, neither of which made sense, he wasn't about to Not ship it and take the blame ... his job is to make sure everything on this skid goes onto the truck.

Likely everyone else had left and he was there late to do the last load of the evening for UPS or whatever shipper ... so he had no one to ask, and the driver didn't want to refuse it and maybe take the blame, so he stuck it on the truck and figured the morning driver could deal with it ....

So ... exactly What did zymphad do to deserve any of this?
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Old 03-26-17, 11:24 AM
  #286  
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I think he meant I deserved an explanation. I agree and now been conversing with sales manager who says this is normal despite me linking multiple posts where WW customers received their frames in 7-9 days or even less. Or that another user got same frame weeks ago when he ordered two days after. The reaction has been apathetic with this is normal.
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Old 03-26-17, 12:21 PM
  #287  
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Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
I think he meant I deserved an explanation.
Way to invalidate a good rant.



Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
I agree and now been conversing with sales manager who says this is normal despite me linking multiple posts where WW customers received their frames in 7-9 days or even less. Or that another user got same frame weeks ago when he ordered two days after. The reaction has been apathetic with this is normal.
Yeah, but now ... when the frame arrives ... you can subtract as much as you want from the bill for the delay, the lies, the pain and suffering ...
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Old 03-26-17, 03:15 PM
  #288  
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lol... sorry! I do meant zymphad deserved an explanation.
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Old 03-26-17, 04:05 PM
  #289  
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Originally Posted by JMH714 View Post
lol... sorry! I do meant zymphad deserved an explanation.
Yeah, I sure missed the mark with that post.
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Old 03-26-17, 07:34 PM
  #290  
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Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
This is a bike frame, nothing for customs to do but say, OK keep going. 10 second X-ray would show it's not a bomb.
Regardless what is in the package, if custom wants to hold it for inspection until tariff/taxes are paid, they just hold the package indefinitely as they please; they do not notify the shipper of the status.. only give notification to the shipping service.. that may take a while before the shipper gets any status report on it.

Last edited by cat0020; 03-26-17 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 03-26-17, 07:36 PM
  #291  
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Originally Posted by cat0020 View Post
Regardless what is in the package, if custom wants to hold it for inspection until tariff/taxes are paid, they just hold the package indefinitely as they please.
No tarif, no taxes, let it go. There is no reason for customs to hold this frame.
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Old 03-27-17, 06:47 AM
  #292  
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You're not getting it probably. Hopefully you got your money back and can move onto your next option.
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Old 03-27-17, 06:53 AM
  #293  
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Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
No tarif, no taxes, let it go. There is no reason for customs to hold this frame.
Maybe for you, not for custom agent.
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Old 03-27-17, 07:05 AM
  #294  
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Originally Posted by cat0020 View Post
Maybe for you, not for custom agent.
Seriously dude, this is not the first time someone has bought a frame, nor is it mine. Customs do not keep chinese carbon frames long. There are hundreds of postings that show they keep the frame around 1 day. That's it. There are no complications. Let it go, this is not the reason for the delay.
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Old 03-27-17, 07:10 AM
  #295  
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Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
Seriously dude, this is not the first time someone has bought a frame, nor is it mine. Customs do not keep chinese carbon frames long. There are hundreds of postings that show they keep the frame around 1 day. That's it. There are no complications. Let it go, this is not the reason for the delay.
And yet here we are. Funny how reality works, innit?
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Old 03-27-17, 07:12 AM
  #296  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
And yet here we are. Funny how reality works, innit?
It's not at customs. That's the problem. If it was at customs, it would be on the way. It's not funny at all.
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Old 03-27-17, 09:12 AM
  #297  
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Having looked over my shipping records, I see there was a 2 1/2 week delay between when they said they shipped, and when I got mine.

I figure it was the sort of things mentioned above----waiting for a full container, nobody being particularly concerned about the time frame, maybe someone missing one week's outgoing delivery and holding it until the next week.

Unless there is some reason to think the frame is in customs ... why would anyone think that? it is not impossible ... the whole crate could be set aside for inspection and last on a long list ... but is there even any notice that it was shipped to the U.S.?

Seriously, I am glad you are getting the frame for free. Not even you deserver this kind of treatment ... well, not So Much of it.
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Old 03-27-17, 10:47 AM
  #298  
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Yar, speaking of... It updated. Says it arrived in NY today and cleared from customs today. As said, customs wasn't the problem.

It's more likely as rpenmanparker said, EMS waits until they have enough to ship or something, it's delay on their part.

It's not customs. I've had many items from EU and China arrive in 3-5 days. This is EMS inconsistent service. This is why I prefer DHL over EMS, when EMS is efficient, their value cost/service unmatched. But as others say, you get what you pay for. DHL/FedEx/UPS all guarantee certain time frame for express. It's clear to me EMS Express only guarantees it will be a few days faster than shipping something by boat.

As I reiterated before, it's the lies that irritated me.
- All of this occurred a week after Chinese New Year was over. I waited specifically until CNY was over to do this.
- I was told frame was in stock to shop at time of purchase. They really begged for quick payment while I thought it over.
- I was expecting it to ship 13th, I ordered Friday 10th.
- No communication for a week. It wasn't until I communicated that I was told it would be shipped the 22nd.
- Delay to 28th
- Delay to March 4th
- Wasn't shipped until 11th
- BikeForums member with same frame, ordered 2 days after me, received his frame week of the 4th.
- His frame didn't have seatpost. They shipped and it arrived in 7 days. He now has two shipments from WW arrive before my frame. Furious.
- Another WW customer received his on the 7th.
- I am furious.
- I was not told how EMS Express works as previous EMS Express purchases on Ebay/AliExpress were all in 5-7 days prior. The delay and lack of knowledge of where it was pissed me off. I was given the tracking number on the 4th, but it wasn't actually shipped to 11th. Both days are Saturdays, and no reason given why they didn't ship on the 4th.
- I was told frame was ready and in QC. I don't believe anyone QC a frame for two weeks. I have hard time believing a small factory like this QC every frame. Even Apple would not do this but do random batch item QC.

I'll have to see what is up with the dispute, since it already went through, not sure. But keeping the frame and not paying is certainly not the right thing to do, despite the awful communication. I'm am peeved that they delayed shipment from 22nd to 11th and opted to ship it two weeks... That is so irritating, as said, I offered to pay extra for expedited shipping.

Last edited by zymphad; 03-27-17 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 03-27-17, 11:01 AM
  #299  
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get half off on your next frame ... order now to get it by Christmas.
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Old 03-27-17, 11:03 AM
  #300  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
get half off on your next frame ... order now to get it by Christmas.
Naw, I think my next frame will be a BMC Roadmachine. That may have 2 month delay too, since it seems wherever I ask about framesets at LBS, they never have my size in stock and estimate restock usually seem to be 2-6 months. But at least the shop will be up front about it, so I'm not freaking out over WTF happened to my frame!?!?!?

Though HongFu have some interesting frames too. Either way I think this is last time I buy from WW.

Last edited by zymphad; 03-27-17 at 11:20 AM.
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