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Enve SES 4.5 AR - thoughts?

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Enve SES 4.5 AR - thoughts?

Old 11-29-16, 09:51 AM
  #51  
Seattle Forrest
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I ordered my set yesterday. From a store that's 185 miles away in the summer, I don't know how far it is by the winter route but it's a couple more hours. Hope I don't regret it. That shop has done right by me, many times, and they'll have the opportunity to help me out again in the future.
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Old 12-10-16, 11:52 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I ordered my set yesterday. From a store that's 185 miles away in the summer, I don't know how far it is by the winter route but it's a couple more hours. Hope I don't regret it. That shop has done right by me, many times, and they'll have the opportunity to help me out again in the future.
I think you will like them. I was new to road tubeless (had mtn bike tubeless for awhile), and had some pain getting the tires on the rims and then the valve to seal. Once I figured it out, all ok. FWIW, you probably know, but put an extra layer of rim tape or two over the valve hole, and poke the smallest hole possible through to put the valve stem. That did the trick for me.
Best,
Mark
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Old 12-10-16, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by hogger453 View Post
Rim brakes have the ability to lock the wheels, the limit of adhesion.
I can lock up the wheels with a broom handle. Doesn't mean it's a good braking system.
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Old 12-17-16, 06:00 AM
  #54  
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I got my set delivered by UPS yesterday...just wish it wasn't -30 degrees out with snow.

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Old 12-19-16, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mtbpete View Post
I would also like to know how well these new rims perform with tubeless cyclocross tires, specifically how burp resistant are they at cyclocross racing tire pressures? If anyone has experience using the SES 4.5 AR disc rims for this purpose I am very interested.

If so;
What is your riding weight?
What tires did you use?
What air pressure did you run?
How easily did they inflate tubeless, was a floor pump good enough?
Did they lock in the bead fairly tight or can they be easily pushed into the center channel when deflated?
What tape and how many layers comes installed on these rims?

Thanks!
Pete
My answers below, not from cyclocross race, but riding generally, on road and light gravel, so hope it is of some help:
I weigh 140lb plus 20ish from bike and tools, maybe 10 more water, clothes, etc., so 170lb total;
Schwalbe Pro One 28mm tubeless, 55psi rear 52psi front (more or less)[these are 31mm when inflated on the rim];
I used an air compressor to seat initially, so don't know about floor pump. I think it would have worked (once I got the valve sorted out, which took awhile--see comment below);
First time I tried to take the tire off the rim after inflating, but before riding it, in order to fix the leak around the valve, pretty damn hard to break the bead. I finally got it broken using a pair of rubber coated clamps that hold a gopro camera mount. After the first time, it was easier to break free, and I think that after riding a bit I could do it on the road sufficient to get an emergency inner tube in for the ride home if I had a flat.
On the tape, I used tape supplied by ENVE. A bit more flexible/thinner than Stan's. The valve leak issue was corrected when I put a couple more layers of tape around the valve hole, and poked the smallest possible hole through it to put the valve through. This was using ENVE valves, which have a cylindrical cross section so they won't rotate in the rim channel. However, this type of valve I think is a bit sensitive to the tape and size of the valve hole, since it wasn't sealing initially. Once I got more tape and a small hole, it did seal. I use Orange Seal. The rim came, from Wheelbuilder, with 2 layers of the ENVE tape on the rim, but with a fairly big hole poked through the tape at the valve hole. Too big I think given my experience.
No burping so far, but I am not riding on a cyclocross course.
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Old 12-23-16, 06:12 AM
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Does anyone know why Enve lists Non-Tubeless tires as 'Not Recommended'?

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Old 12-23-16, 11:33 AM
  #57  
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https://cyclingtips.com/2016/12/enve...ging-the-game/

apparently he's running 60psi on these wheels. Sixty!

Last edited by cthenn; 12-23-16 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 12-24-16, 09:44 AM
  #58  
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Pic of 4.5s on a bike

Here is my finished bike with the 4.5 AR wheels. I'm riding now with 50-52 psi rear, 50 up front (I weigh 140).

Mosaic-R.jpg

Last edited by Mark Manner; 01-28-17 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 12-24-16, 11:09 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Mark Manner View Post
Here is my finished bike with the 4.5 AR wheels. I'm riding now with 52-52 psi rear, 50 up front (I weigh 140).

Attachment 546758

Beauty! What tire and setup is that (tubeless, etc.). How did you tape the rims?
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Old 12-24-16, 11:54 AM
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Holy cassette, Batman!! How many teeth you have back there?!
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Old 12-25-16, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Silvercivic27 View Post
Holy cassette, Batman!! How many teeth you have back there?!
HA! It is an 11-40 11 speed cassette (46/30 up front). Works great with the di2 mid-range rear derailleur with wolftooth roadlink. I ride a lot at altitude on steep roads and I am weak!
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Old 12-25-16, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SkepticalOne View Post
Beauty! What tire and setup is that (tubeless, etc.). How did you tape the rims?
Schwalbe Pro One 28mm tubeless clinchers (which as ENVE and Schwalbe say are in fact right at 31mm when inflated on the rim). I used ENVE rim tape (thinner than Stan's), 2 layers with 3 around valve hole, Orange Seal (40ml) sealant.
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Old 12-25-16, 12:26 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Mark Manner View Post
Schwalbe Pro One 28mm tubeless clinchers (which as ENVE and Schwalbe say are in fact right at 31mm when inflated on the rim). I used ENVE rim tape (thinner than Stan's), 2 layers with 3 around valve hole, Orange Seal (40ml) sealant.
Thank you

How did you find installation of the tire over the rim? (i.e.: how much elbow grease?)
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Old 12-25-16, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Manner View Post
HA! It is an 11-40 11 speed cassette (46/30 up front). Works great with the di2 mid-range rear derailleur with wolftooth roadlink. I ride a lot at altitude on steep roads and I am weak!
That's a really wide range! Does it actually shift OK?
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Old 12-25-16, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SkepticalOne View Post
Thank you

How did you find installation of the tire over the rim? (i.e.: how much elbow grease?)
It was pretty hard, I ended up getting some Schwalbe Easy Fit Tire Mounting Fluid and that helped a lot, better than a soapy solution I tried. I was able to get the 2nd on without tools with the fluid, the first one with soap I had to use a single plastic lever. I found that putting on leather work gloves and the easy fit made it relatively manageable. I think after riding them a bit I would be able to break the bead on the road and stick an inner tube in if the sealant didn't work.
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Old 12-25-16, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Silvercivic27 View Post
That's a really wide range! Does it actually shift OK?
It shifts very good, pretty much indistinguishable from the 11-32 or 11-36 (without Roadlink in). I have another road bike set up with di2 mtn bike derailleurs operated by road levers, with the same 11-40 rear cassette, and this setup shifts pretty much the same as the mtn bike setup does.
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Old 12-27-16, 12:27 AM
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[QUOTE=SkepticalOne;19267280]Does anyone know why Enve lists Non-Tubeless tires as 'Not Recommended'?

I believe it is because the SES 4.5AR rims have no hook, and rely on the inherently tighter bead of tubeless ready tires to ensure that they stay on the rim tightly. I can attest to the fact that the Schwalbe Pro One tubeless ready tires in fact are 'tighter' than the normal non-tubeless clinchers I have used.
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Old 12-27-16, 07:12 AM
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[QUOTE=Mark Manner;19272978]
Originally Posted by SkepticalOne View Post
Does anyone know why Enve lists Non-Tubeless tires as 'Not Recommended'?

I believe it is because the SES 4.5AR rims have no hook, and rely on the inherently tighter bead of tubeless ready tires to ensure that they stay on the rim tightly. I can attest to the fact that the Schwalbe Pro One tubeless ready tires in fact are 'tighter' than the normal non-tubeless clinchers I have used.
Thanks Mark - you've been very helpful...I'm following your approach and have the Pro Ones, Schalbe Easy Fit and Orange sealant on order. I'm hoping to avoid levers altogether.

I found it strange that Enve changed their recommendation at some point. Note below, they originally seemed to be endorsing the Continental GP4K IIs for a period. That seems to have changed somehow...Enve has provided me a generic answer describing the attributes of tubeless, but I've been curious to understand to potential ill-effects of running the Contis with tubes as an alternative.

Tell us about your impressions on the road?!

Previous recommendation:
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Old 12-27-16, 08:18 AM
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[QUOTE=SkepticalOne;19273166][QUOTE=Mark Manner;19272978]


Tell us about your impressions on the road?!

I have ridden mostly on road and greenway surfaces, a little light gravel so far (I plan on riding on some steep gravel when it dries out a bit). So far, the setup feels really nice. The lower pressure and wider contact of the tires are obvious in the ride when going over bumps and around corners. It is much more comfortable and feels more secure. It has taken awhile for me to go to even 25mm tires, as I came from a riding background in the late sixties and early seventies riding silk-walled tubular tires that were 19mm wide and 130psi (at my 140lbs). I am a convert now. As far as rolling resistance and aerodynamics, who knows! I still struggle to keep up with my friends with big engines on the decommissioned airport runway we use for intervals, but it doesn't seem to be any harder, so I don't think that the 31mm tires on these wheels feel slower than my 23mm ones. The few watts improvement may be difficult for me to actually prove, but I believe the data I have read, and so the clearly better comfort and cornering are good enough for me. I also think that the side wind performance is better than my Zipp 404 or 303 wheels. I seem to have less steerer pressure when it is really windy from the side. Still there to some extent, just not quite as bad. They also look pretty good, but of course that is never a consideration for we bikers.
I will report on the gravel in more detail. It is one of the other reasons I wanted to get these for versatility on dirt/gravel side roads.
Best regards,
Mark
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Old 12-27-16, 11:26 AM
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Thanks for sharing your impressions, Mark. I'm jealous, I thought I'd be picking my wheels up last week but they haven't arrived yet. (But I got skis instead so I can't complain.)
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Old 12-29-16, 03:01 PM
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If the tire was a little difficult to unseat from the bead that looks promising for low pressure cyclocross use.
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Old 12-30-16, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbpete View Post
If the tire was a little difficult to unseat from the bead that looks promising for low pressure cyclocross use.
FWIW, it was more than a little difficult, so my bet is it will work well at lower pressure than what I am using (50psi). I am going go out to some steep gravel one of these days and try lower pressures and will let you know.
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Old 01-01-17, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Manner View Post
It was pretty hard, I ended up getting some Schwalbe Easy Fit Tire Mounting Fluid and that helped a lot, better than a soapy solution I tried. I was able to get the 2nd on without tools with the fluid, the first one with soap I had to use a single plastic lever. I found that putting on leather work gloves and the easy fit made it relatively manageable. I think after riding them a bit I would be able to break the bead on the road and stick an inner tube in if the sealant didn't work.

I haven't ben able to get the damn tire on the rim...still waiting to receive the 'Easy Fit Fluid'...I'm concerned about what would happen in a flat situation...here she is with the tire 90% mounted:/

Any tips on techniques to get these tight tires to clear the rim?


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Old 01-01-17, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SkepticalOne View Post
I haven't ben able to get the damn tire on the rim...still waiting to receive the 'Easy Fit Fluid'...I'm concerned about what would happen in a flat situation...here she is with the tire 90% mounted:/

Any tips on techniques to get these tight tires to clear the rim?


The fluid will help a lot. Before I got it for the second tire, I used dilute dish soap. It helped but not as good as the fluid. One thing that helped me get the last bit over the rim was putting a rag against the bead and that allowed me to apply more pressure with my fingers to the bead to push it over the rim without hurting my fingers. I was able to get it over the rim. As far as fixing a flat out in the world, I was really worried about it after I got the rims sealed and then tried to break the bead to work on the valve stem. I ended up using a gopro clamp (rubber jaws with a big spring) to squeeze the tire (not the rim) and break the bead. Once it broke the bead a couple times it became easier, and I believe after riding on them a bit that will also help ease it up a bit. I am no longer worried about the flat situation (if it happens--I think that getting a flat with these tires with sealant won't happen much).
Keep at it, and good luck,
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Old 01-02-17, 12:59 PM
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I was putting them on the 3.4s, but my Pro1s went on super easily. It was also middle of summer in Phoenix and the tires had sat out in a hot shed for a few days.

I wonder if you heated the tire up slightly with a blow dryer if it would stretch enough to go on the tire.
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