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Enve SES 4.5 AR - thoughts?

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Enve SES 4.5 AR - thoughts?

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Old 08-31-16, 01:51 PM
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Seattle Forrest
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Enve SES 4.5 AR - thoughts?

Except for the price, these seem ideal for the riding I've been doing this year. Would love to hear impressions.

SES 4.5 AR Disc - ENVE Composites
New ENVE SES 4.5 AR Disc makes aero road bike wheels wider to match modern tires - Bikerumor
ENVE introduces Smart ENVE System 4.5 AR Disc | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos
First Look: Enve SES 4.5 AR Disc Wheels | Bicycling
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Old 08-31-16, 03:20 PM
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I have the 3.4 SES ENVEs laced to Chris King hubs and they're the best wheels I've ever rolled on.

ENVE makes a solid product...I'd definitely say they're worth the money.
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Old 08-31-16, 05:51 PM
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I was able to ride a few miles on a Trek Emonda with and without Enve SES 6.7, in rim braking flavor. They made a profound difference in how the bike rode and felt. Worth the asking price, I thought. But I have discs, and I ride a lot of dirt roads, too. The new 4.5 AR sound like they should have my name on them.

I'm wondering if hitting a washboard surface descending at speed is going to be a problem. Can't really see it until I'm on top of it, so it happens. I killed a set of OEM wheels, I assume it was the washboards and the climbing ... and the cheap spokes. But now I'm nervous, and these aren't cheap.

I'll get the DT 240 hubs if I get these.
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Old 08-31-16, 06:02 PM
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I've done gravel canal paths without issue.

About the worst gravel they saw was about 3 miles of washboard gravel road in South Phoenix. I think I averaged around 18mph, so not descending fast, but still not the normal pavement they're used to. They handled it without issue.

I'm around 190lbs and have 20 spoke front/24 spoke rear and I bunny hop mine quite often on pavement, jumping over potholes or off curbs. I've never had to true them or mess with them.

I also set them up tubeless and have been running them this way for a couple of months now. I did have to fuss with them a bit as they're not tubeless ready, but have had no issues since I worked out the kinks.
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Old 08-31-16, 09:29 PM
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Thanks a lot for sharing your feedback, SpeshulEd. That helps me a lot.
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Old 08-31-16, 10:59 PM
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I haven't done much research on them but I know Zipp came out with disc versions of a lot of their popular wheels, and also offer the "30" now which is tubeless ready and disc compatible, but not as deep. They do have the 404s in disc as well.

For me, the ENVEs were my dream wheel and I was able to swing it last year so I jumped on them. If I had the budget, I'd buy a set for all of my bikes, haha.
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Old 09-09-16, 02:32 PM
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The ENVE SES 4.5 AR wheels look pretty awesome for allroad/mixed terrain/gravel riding. I hope we see more rims like those in the near future. I have a few comments:
* $975/rim, yikes! Please let me know when they're $200.
* aerodynamically matched for 30mm (actual width) tires. 30mm tires are really fast on pavement, but only tolerably well on dirt. A 40mm tire isn't going to look so aero on these wheels. Hopefully these are the first in a series of aero rims for 35mm and 40mm tires.
* disc only. It makes sense for the intended market. I'd like to see similar rims with an aluminum braking surface, too. A carbon braking surface rim intended for gravel would be a poor choice.
* tubeless clincher and tubular options. Great choice for cyclocross.
*80psi limit with tubes, 100psi limit tubeless. Clydesdales take note. This should be a high performance wheel for heavier riders. Riders over 200lb will be best served with >30mm tires to avoid that pressure limit.
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Old 09-10-16, 12:18 AM
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ENVE hubs are garbage. Get the rims. They are super sweet. Then put Chris Kings in them or Industry Nines. Or if you can afford ENVE rims, you can probably afford Tune hubs, and those are super buttery.
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Old 09-10-16, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by OneIsAllYouNeed View Post
* aerodynamically matched for 30mm (actual width) tires. 30mm tires are really fast on pavement, but only tolerably well on dirt. A 40mm tire isn't going to look so aero on these wheels. Hopefully these are the first in a series of aero rims for 35mm and 40mm tires.
I've been using 28s and thinking I'd go to 32 mm for my next tires (pretty soon). Deep gravel, fields of bigger rocks, and sand are my enemies, but 28 has been good for all the dirt I've thrown at it.

I don't know how wide you can go and still be fast on pavement. I'm doing about 2/3 of my miles on paved roads and the other 1/3 on dirt roads. Haven't found the ideal compromise yet but I'm going to try 32 mm next.

This was doable on 28 mm, but a pain in the ass:



This was smooth sailing on 28 mm:

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Old 09-10-16, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by cpstwoart View Post
ENVE hubs are garbage. Get the rims. They are super sweet. Then put Chris Kings in them or Industry Nines. Or if you can afford ENVE rims, you can probably afford Tune hubs, and those are super buttery.
I've got a thru-axle in the front but a QR in the back. And want these to outlive my current frame. So that means the DT 240 hubs. You change the end caps and they fit whatever you put them on.
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Old 09-10-16, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I've been using 28s and thinking I'd go to 32 mm for my next tires (pretty soon). Deep gravel, fields of bigger rocks, and sand are my enemies, but 28 has been good for all the dirt I've thrown at it.

I don't know how wide you can go and still be fast on pavement. I'm doing about 2/3 of my miles on paved roads and the other 1/3 on dirt roads. Haven't found the ideal compromise yet but I'm going to try 32 mm next
My experience with combined bike/rider weight of 190-200lb has been this:
28mm (measured width) are fast on pavement and really smooth gravel. They really slow down when road conditions deteriorate.
30mm are just as fast, but can handle drier and wetter conditions on maintained dirt roads
32mm is the tipping point for me where tire inertia (with 450g tires) is noticeable on fast group road rides. Lighter 32mm tires, like Compass/Grand Bois or GP4000 on a really wide rim, would not be a handicap on fast group road rides. 32mm is also the starting size for fast gravel riding that can survive most conditions. Most of my riding is on pavement with 31-33mm tires, and I feel confident taking sandy or gravelly or rooty shortcuts with those tires.
35mm or more are reserved for rides that are >60% gravel or have some gnarly unmaintained roads. They still roll fast on pavement, but the air resistance and moment of inertia are apparent.
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Old 09-10-16, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by OneIsAllYouNeed View Post
The ENVE SES 4.5 AR wheels look pretty awesome for allroad/mixed terrain/gravel riding. I hope we see more rims like those in the near future. I have a few comments:
* $975/rim, yikes! Please let me know when they're $200.
* aerodynamically matched for 30mm (actual width) tires. 30mm tires are really fast on pavement, but only tolerably well on dirt. A 40mm tire isn't going to look so aero on these wheels. Hopefully these are the first in a series of aero rims for 35mm and 40mm tires.
* disc only. It makes sense for the intended market. I'd like to see similar rims with an aluminum braking surface, too. A carbon braking surface rim intended for gravel would be a poor choice.
* tubeless clincher and tubular options. Great choice for cyclocross.
*80psi limit with tubes, 100psi limit tubeless. Clydesdales take note. This should be a high performance wheel for heavier riders. Riders over 200lb will be best served with >30mm tires to avoid that pressure limit.
Why even bother responding? You are clearly not in the target market...so ignore and move on.
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Old 09-10-16, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cseaman View Post
Why even bother responding? You are clearly not in the target market...so ignore and move on.
These are the best bike wheels I've ever seen. Even though I'm not going to spend $3K on them, I think others should if they're in the market.
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Old 09-10-16, 01:57 PM
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Disc rims are a perfect place to roll on cheap chinese or taiwanese carbon (with ENVE stickers of course). Save the $$$ for the rim brake carbon clinchers.
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Old 09-10-16, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by OneIsAllYouNeed View Post
My experience with combined bike/rider weight of 190-200lb has been this:
28mm (measured width) are fast on pavement and really smooth gravel. They really slow down when road conditions deteriorate.
30mm are just as fast, but can handle drier and wetter conditions on maintained dirt roads
32mm is the tipping point for me where tire inertia (with 450g tires) is noticeable on fast group road rides. Lighter 32mm tires, like Compass/Grand Bois or GP4000 on a really wide rim, would not be a handicap on fast group road rides. 32mm is also the starting size for fast gravel riding that can survive most conditions. Most of my riding is on pavement with 31-33mm tires, and I feel confident taking sandy or gravelly or rooty shortcuts with those tires.
35mm or more are reserved for rides that are >60% gravel or have some gnarly unmaintained roads. They still roll fast on pavement, but the air resistance and moment of inertia are apparent.
Thanks very much for sharing your observations with me. Very, very appreciated.
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Old 09-11-16, 11:36 AM
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You can be faster than hell on pavement with wide tires. I know quite a few really strong riders who are doing the 650b 40mm+ thing on Compass tires, and these guys haul ass. It's the engine, they kick my ass constantly but then again they're all former racers of the CAT 1 variety...

What's game changing about these new ENVE's is the internal width... 25mm is no joke, anyone else doing that with a mid-profile road wheel?

Another thing to consider with mid profile carbon is they're stronger just because the triangle twixt rim @ hub is shorter & squatter, so, you could bash the crap out of these off road...then again ENVE dominates in off road carbon as well.

What experience do you have with carbon wheels? Overall I can't go back to alloy whatsoever after going to carbon, the difference in flex is readily apparent.
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Old 09-11-16, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
You change the end caps and they fit whatever you put them on.
Also true of WI. I have those and CK. Of the two, I prefer CK, but WI is very high quality, and a bit less expensive.
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Old 09-13-16, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I've got a thru-axle in the front but a QR in the back. And want these to outlive my current frame. So that means the DT 240 hubs. You change the end caps and they fit whatever you put them on.
Consider Hope hubs. They are still really good, and better than the Mavic ones on ENVE wheels. The are bomb proof, easy to repair if you ever do manage to mess them up, and they are significantly cheaper than DT 240 hubs.
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Old 09-13-16, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cpstwoart View Post
Consider Hope hubs. They are still really good, and better than the Mavic ones on ENVE wheels.
ENVE builds with either CK, DT or their own carbon fiber hubs. They do not use Mavic hubs, they've never used Mavic hubs.
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Old 09-13-16, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by cpstwoart View Post
ENVE hubs are garbage. Get the rims. They are super sweet. Then put Chris Kings in them or Industry Nines. Or if you can afford ENVE rims, you can probably afford Tune hubs, and those are super buttery.
The carbon ones? I haven't read any bad reviews of them...would like to hear why you think they're garbage.

I've read plenty of bad reviews about zipp hubs, but never enve.
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Old 09-13-16, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Jiggle View Post
Disc rims are a perfect place to roll on cheap chinese or taiwanese carbon (with ENVE stickers of course). Save the $$$ for the rim brake carbon clinchers.
No.

I wish I could take a baseball bat to every pair of cheap chinese rims with brand name stickers on them. I have black enve stickers on my enves to avoid attention. The sticker means nothing to me, it's the quality of the product that the sticker is on.

Slapping a sticker on a fake wheels just makes you look like a fool, imo.
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Old 09-14-16, 02:49 PM
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per ENVE the new wide rims are almost as aero with 28 than the old rims with a 25.
But why didn't they test the new rims with a 25...?
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Old 09-14-16, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bikebreak View Post
But why didn't they test the new rims with a 25...?
Because they're designed for a wider format @30mm.
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Old 09-14-16, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SpeshulEd View Post
Slapping a sticker on a fake wheels just makes you look like a fool, imo.
Fact, not opinion...

... unless you a putting a Huffy decal on a Serotta.
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Old 09-14-16, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by OneIsAllYouNeed View Post
* disc only. It makes sense for the intended market. I'd like to see similar rims with an aluminum braking surface, too. A carbon braking surface rim intended for gravel would be a poor choice.
The reason these are disc only is the rims don't have a brake track. It's not just that they don't have an alu one; that part of the rim is made for strength (impact resistance) and aerodynamics, not for heat dissipation, or to resist clamping force, or even shaped to be ideal for brake pads.

I've looked at a handful of wheelbuilder offerings that would set me back a lot less. A lot of people are taking normal wheels, changing the hubs, and calling them disc wheels. And it works. But one reason I'm potentially (or pretty likely) willing to fork out the extra dough is the R&D that went into these. Discs make sense because of the rain and mud, but if I'm using them anyway, I might as well reap all the benefits I can. Because I'm paying the weight penalty either way.
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