Fizik; made in China
10-10-18, 01:34 PM
#26
Banned
Free Trade..
They cut labor costs to not have to raise the price,
by seeking a cheaper contract bid.
you new to this economic system?
Been to a better place, like on Venus ?
[ My Australian Blundstone boots were made in Vietnam ]
...
by seeking a cheaper contract bid.
you new to this economic system?
Been to a better place, like on Venus ?
[ My Australian Blundstone boots were made in Vietnam ]
...
Last edited by fietsbob; 10-10-18 at 01:39 PM.
10-11-18, 12:13 PM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Queens, NY for now...
Posts: 1,528
Bikes: 82 Lotus Unique, 86 Lotus Legend, 88 Basso Loto, 88 Basso PR, 89 Basso PR, 96 Bianchi CDI, 2013 Deda Aegis, 2019 Basso Diamante SV
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 939 Post(s)
Liked 156 Times
in
108 Posts
Originally Posted by cthenn
What's wrong with it? Are you implying Italian workers are, in fact, superior in some way to Chinese workers? If we're talking pay scale, and working conditions, I'm sure there is a difference in many cases, but I think what you are saying is not a serious statement either.
Do you know what an artisan is? Do you know what tradition is? Knowledge? Yes, a human being is a human being, and you can educate and work with any human that has a basic skill set to bring them up to a competent level. But if they lack years of practice and/or apprenticeship, they will never be able to reach beyond say 90% of the quality of a true artisan (unless they have some outlier level of talent, which doesn't apply to mass production). Thing is, most people will never notice that missing 10% of quality, and hence you get generalizations about things from countries with cheap labor being "just as good."
Like I said, a human is a human, so generally the quality you get is proportional to the time and attention given to each product produced, and that is where the cheap labor comes into the picture. But of course that doesn't make it right. That doesn't excuse the exploitation of workers and a culture of theft and dishonesty.
Originally Posted by Zaskar
Sure, the Italians are amazing designers, but when was quality ever tightly associated with Italian manufacturing? Fiat? Ferrari?
Riiight, because Ferrari only build some of the most finely engineered F1 cars in the world, right? Because Ferrari street cars have not become incredibly reliable given their performance, right? And FIAT? That company that now owns Chrysler?
Sure, there was a period during the late 80's and 90's when the appliances (and yes, that includes cars) coming out of Japan had better quality control and reliability (never mind that their cars were painfully boring and didn't perform particularly well), but those days have long since passed. Read any objective literature and you will see that, at comparable price points, the quality/reliability of all the major brands is more or less the same. Now if you want to talk about design and pleasure, that's another story.
10-11-18, 12:17 PM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 695
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked 231 Times
in
131 Posts
Originally Posted by robertorolfo
Do you know what an artisan is? Do you know what tradition is? Knowledge? Yes, a human being is a human being, and you can educate and work with any human that has a basic skill set to bring them up to a competent level. But if they lack years of practice and/or apprenticeship, they will never be able to reach beyond say 90% of the quality of a true artisan (unless they have some outlier level of talent, which doesn't apply to mass production). Thing is, most people will never notice that missing 10% of quality, and hence you get generalizations about things from countries with cheap labor being "just as good."
Like I said, a human is a human, so generally the quality you get is proportional to the time and attention given to each product produced, and that is where the cheap labor comes into the picture. But of course that doesn't make it right. That doesn't excuse the exploitation of workers and a culture of theft and dishonesty.
Riiight, because Ferrari only build some of the most finely engineered F1 cars in the world, right? Because Ferrari street cars have not become incredibly reliable given their performance, right? And FIAT? That company that now owns Chrysler?
Sure, there was a period during the late 80's and 90's when the appliances (and yes, that includes cars) coming out of Japan had better quality control and reliability (never mind that their cars were painfully boring and didn't perform particularly well), but those days have long since passed. Read any objective literature and you will see that, at comparable price points, the quality/reliability of all the major brands is more or less the same. Now if you want to talk about design and pleasure, that's another story.
Like I said, a human is a human, so generally the quality you get is proportional to the time and attention given to each product produced, and that is where the cheap labor comes into the picture. But of course that doesn't make it right. That doesn't excuse the exploitation of workers and a culture of theft and dishonesty.
Riiight, because Ferrari only build some of the most finely engineered F1 cars in the world, right? Because Ferrari street cars have not become incredibly reliable given their performance, right? And FIAT? That company that now owns Chrysler?
Sure, there was a period during the late 80's and 90's when the appliances (and yes, that includes cars) coming out of Japan had better quality control and reliability (never mind that their cars were painfully boring and didn't perform particularly well), but those days have long since passed. Read any objective literature and you will see that, at comparable price points, the quality/reliability of all the major brands is more or less the same. Now if you want to talk about design and pleasure, that's another story.
10-11-18, 04:12 PM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Queens, NY for now...
Posts: 1,528
Bikes: 82 Lotus Unique, 86 Lotus Legend, 88 Basso Loto, 88 Basso PR, 89 Basso PR, 96 Bianchi CDI, 2013 Deda Aegis, 2019 Basso Diamante SV
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 939 Post(s)
Liked 156 Times
in
108 Posts
Originally Posted by Zaskar
Sorry. You're Riiiight... for $400,000 USD, Italy can match the quality of a $40,000 Japanese car... or a $30,000 Korean car. They're just so well-known for quality and affordability.
Even at 30K (or whatever price point you want), your average FIAT or Alfa or Lancia is going to be at the same level of "quality", if not higher, than a comparably priced Japanese or Korean car, and it will most likely also look better and drive better.
10-11-18, 09:23 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,296
Bikes: Colnago CLX,GT Karakoram,Giant Revel, Kona Honk_ Tonk
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by robertorolfo
What are you talking about when you say "quality"? Do you mean reliability? Because yes, that 400K car will be just as reliable, but it will blow the doors off the 40K car and provide a lot more driving pleasure. And you can absolutely bank on the fact that the build quality will be higher.
Even at 30K (or whatever price point you want), your average FIAT or Alfa or Lancia is going to be at the same level of "quality", if not higher, than a comparably priced Japanese or Korean car, and it will most likely also look better and drive better.
Even at 30K (or whatever price point you want), your average FIAT or Alfa or Lancia is going to be at the same level of "quality", if not higher, than a comparably priced Japanese or Korean car, and it will most likely also look better and drive better.
As for Fizik shoes or any other product, it's the company standards of production that determine its quality not the country of manufacturing.
