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Tubeless tire puncture, is this tire done?

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Tubeless tire puncture, is this tire done?

Old 08-31-16, 09:14 PM
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Tubeless tire puncture, is this tire done?

I picked up a chunk of glass... I was running tubes and didn't notice anything until well after the ride. Seems like a good reason to use the tires as tubeless, but is this hole too big? 25mm giant gavia tubeless tire.

Is the tire done? Can I seal it with superglue or something? I could put a tube in it, or is that hole too ugly?

The next difficulty is getting the tire seated with that hole in the tire. With the tube, I needed a lot of soapy water and letting the tire sit at 125psi before it could gradually slide its way into position. It's not fully seated right now, so it's lumpy, and I can only get it up to 60psi with my floor pump.
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Old 08-31-16, 09:27 PM
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Nah, I'd put a patch on the inside of the tire and move it to the back wheel. (if its not there already)

As long as there is no major casing damage, (no bulges) that tire should have significant life left in it.
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Old 09-01-16, 04:19 AM
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you can definitely get it to work with a tube, just do the crazy glue trick. basically flip the tire inside out and pour liquid crazy glue on the inside of the tire and let it penetrate through the hole as quickly as possible, then just try to quickly and carefully match up the sides to try to seal the hole as much as possible, then let it sit for an hour or so to dry. then, flip the tire right side out and put it on the wheel with a tube like you normally would, and inflate to whatever you would normally use...

the whole reason for this is so that you don't have to use a patch or boot on the inside of the tire, and honestly it can usually be done well enough that you won't even remember where the hole was. any excess crazy glue that penetrates through to the outside of the tire casing will wear away after about 10 miles on the road, which is why you pour the crazy glue on the inside of the tire and let it penetrate out. if you get worried, you could always use a folded piece of duck tape where the hole was as a boot, but i highly doubt you'll need that if you did it right, i never did...
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Old 09-01-16, 05:42 AM
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If it was any bigger, I'd suggest trying a car-tire plug!
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Old 09-01-16, 06:26 AM
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I'm not sure I understand...is the cut all the way through, or just in the tread? You say you didn't notice the cut on the ride, but then say you can't get the pressure beyond 60psi, and I'm confused if those things are related, you flatted and changed the tube, or there is a slow leak, or what.

In any case, if avoiding trouble on the road is important to you, I'd recommend trashing the tire and getting a new one. That is always going to be a vulnerable spot on the tire forever more, and one well placed rock or piece of debris will reopen or go right through, and the irregular shape of the cut will be prone to ripping just through regular tread distortion during riding.

I haven't done the super glue thing in years, but that's because it doesn't work in my experience. It may for some certain situations, but I've never seen it hold a tread cut closed. If you're a gambler, try it, and consider booting the tire from the inside if it's cut through.

This is a tubeless tire, right? Depending on the type, you may be able to use a regular tube patch on the inside easily, and if not, you may try a Hutchinson kit for tubeless.

If it's cut through, I think the potential frustration level goes up with tubeless setup, and I frankly wouldn't bother, especially if you don't have the right equipment to make installation easy.

I know tubeless tires are pricey, but I have a hard time imagining this tire returning to a normally durable service life because of the vulnerability of the cut site.
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Old 09-01-16, 06:31 AM
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Get a new tire and ride.
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Old 09-01-16, 07:15 AM
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Use some shoe goo. Dab it right in the hole. It will patch and harden some. I had a hole in a tubed tire and it worked great.
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Old 09-01-16, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Frank72 View Post
Use some shoe goo. Dab it right in the hole. It will patch and harden some. I had a hole in a tubed tire and it worked great.
This is good. Or I've used superglue to seal cuts like that.
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Old 09-01-16, 09:40 AM
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I feel life is too precious to ride a tyre with a cut that big. Even when I lived in Palatine, maybe I ride in WI for the day and hit 35~40mph on a descent, is that a tyre I want on my bike?

What's your insurance deductible compared to a new tyre?
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Old 09-01-16, 07:36 PM
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Thank you all for the comments.
Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I'm not sure I understand...is the cut all the way through, or just in the tread? You say you didn't notice the cut on the ride, but then say you can't get the pressure beyond 60psi, and I'm confused if those things are related, you flatted and changed the tube, or there is a slow leak, or what.
On closer inspection, the cut is all the way through and more of a tear than a simple thorn-like puncture. While riding, I think the tube (butyl, 0.9mm wall thickness) helped to slow the leak (felt like it was gripping the glass as I tried to remove it) and I have to guess that it happened just before I arrived home. The glass (~3x3x2mm) was embedded in the tire rubber quite well, hence the surrounding damage. With the tube then removed and tubeless valve installed on the rim, I tried to pump the tire to seat it on the rim (hoping to add sealant). Futile, yes, but I also wanted to see how close I could get to seating a tubeless tire without CO2 or a compressor.

Regardless, I swapped a tire from my other bike on there and will toss this tubeless tire out. I must have a funny mix of good/bad luck with new tires. This tire made it home, then gave out. First time I tried a Michelin Pro4, I hit a stick funny and got a sidewall gash, but with no apparent problem until I got home and put the bike up (then the tube popped like a balloon).
Originally Posted by Mr IGH
I feel life is too precious to ride a tyre with a cut that big. Even when I lived in Palatine, maybe I ride in WI for the day and hit 35~40mph on a descent, is that a tyre I want on my bike?
Oddly enough, I live in Palatine and might be riding in WI on Saturday
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Old 09-01-16, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
I feel life is too precious to ride a tyre with a cut that big. Even when I lived in Palatine, maybe I ride in WI for the day and hit 35~40mph on a descent, is that a tyre I want on my bike?

What's your insurance deductible compared to a new tyre?
Sure, I have absolutely no problem riding that. Patch it from the inside and it's fine. Tubeless tires (when run tubeless) don't have catastrophic blow-outs. The worst case is a relatively quick flat, and that's only if the patch completely fails.
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Old 09-02-16, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by gsa103 View Post
...Tubeless tires (when run tubeless) don't have catastrophic blow-outs. The worst case is a relatively quick flat, and that's only if the patch completely fails.
Blowout or quick deflation makes little difference on a 10% downhill when you're going 45mph around a corner with oncoming traffic in the next lane. A crash is enviable, going over the guardrail or running into oncoming traffic can be deadly. These kind of choices exist in the Rockies....
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Old 09-02-16, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by black_box View Post
Oddly enough, I live in Palatine and might be riding in WI on Saturday
I lived on South Royal CT from 1996 to 2014. Once my youngest graduated Fremd HS, I escape the State of Ill. Wisconsin is where Chicago vacations.
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Old 09-02-16, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by gsa103 View Post
Sure, I have absolutely no problem riding that. Patch it from the inside and it's fine. Tubeless tires (when run tubeless) don't have catastrophic blow-outs. The worst case is a relatively quick flat, and that's only if the patch completely fails.
Well, I dunno about that...

I had a similar cut on a tubeless Pro One which would not seal with Stan's, so I tubed it and finished ride. Once home, I think I KrazyGlued it and reinstalled with Bontrager TLR sealant, the combo of which seemed to work; it held overnight, and rode for about 15 miles before it reopened. This time though, the Bontrager sealant did the job, although it grew a weird lump of the sealant outside the tread! That was weird, but I pulled it off and rode on, and it leaked down a bit before sealing up ok. It did another couple of rides, about 60 miles, before it let go again with a mighty boom big enough to go instantly flat. I stopped without incident, and upons examining it, I could see the cut also ripped open more, or perhaps was re-damaged by road debris, but I didn't see or feel anything.

Anyway, point being was that the tire emptied out really damn quick, nearly instantaneously. The bead stayed put, though, at least one side did. I don't really remember clearly whether the other one broke loose before I stopped or popped free once I started handling it.
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Old 09-02-16, 04:08 PM
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Here's mine after the final blowout:

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Old 09-02-16, 05:02 PM
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I've glued bigger cuts than that on both tubed and tubeless tires. Superglue the cut (I use AKA R/C tire glue, because it has rubber dissolved in it) then patch the tire from the inside. Ride until the rest of the tire wears out. The tire is dead when you can't glue/patch it. If too much of the cording is cut, the gash will just continue to grow. But you should easily get another couple hundred miles out of that tire, if not more.
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Old 09-02-16, 06:42 PM
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It's just a flesh wound! [/python accent]
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Old 09-02-16, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
I've glued bigger cuts than that on both tubed and tubeless tires. Superglue the cut (I use AKA R/C tire glue, because it has rubber dissolved in it) then patch the tire from the inside. Ride until the rest of the tire wears out. The tire is dead when you can't glue/patch it. If too much of the cording is cut, the gash will just continue to grow. But you should easily get another couple hundred miles out of that tire, if not more.
Hmm, maybe the AKA stuff is better than KrazyGlue for this application, but then again, I've never had KrazyGlue or any of the similar superglues work on tires; they just never hold permanently, and wind up being a weak spot causing another flat.

I'd much rather have the piece of mind of an intact tire than bother to gamble on a glue and patch job, but I won't lie: eating the $80 for that tire kind of stung!
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Old 09-02-16, 10:12 PM
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Krazyglue is just awful, for anything. There are a whole smorgasbord of cyanoacrylates, and some work a whole lot better on rubber than others. I have the AKA on hand from an R/C background-- it's R/C tire glue. It somehow manages to keep a tire glued to a plastic rim at like 20,000rpm, when centrifugal force has turned a 4" tall tire into an 8" disc. I've never had an issue with it repairing tears in R/C tires, much less bike tires. If anything, good tire glue will make that spot on the tire tougher than the rest of the tire.

But like I said, if too many cords are cut, the tear will just keep spreading. That's how both of my Schwalbe Ones died.
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Old 09-03-16, 06:25 PM
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Yep, just patch the inside. I've had plenty of Road Tubeless tires with cuts like that. No biggie.
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Old 09-04-16, 11:25 PM
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Patch the inside. I think my rear has 3 like that as well as balding section from skid out I had to do... actually, about time to replace but too lazy...
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Old 09-04-16, 11:48 PM
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I've been repairing tubed tires with much bigger casing holes and tears with a method that works for the rest of the life of the tire. (My favorite wet road tire is the Vittoria Open Pave which is famous for picking up road debris and getting real cuts and slices. They cost $75. I cannot afford to toss them with 400 miles on them.)

My repair method is to glue a dacron sailcloth patch with contractor's contact cement. (Ask a sailmaker for a scrap of sailcloth appropriate for a small boat.) Make the patch much larger than the hole. I often go 1 1/2" past in both directons and bead to bead.

The only think I would gdo differently for a tubeless tire would be to put on a small tube patch over the hole before I glued on the sailcloth.

I did this repair on a newish Open Pave with a 3/4" slice through the tread and casing before Cycle Oregon several years ago and used it as the rear tire on my fix gear. 500 miles. 35,000' both up and down. Many downhill corners. Used it sporadically after. Flatted it the other day late on a long ride. Took one look at the totally trashed tread and casing at the repair and immediately thought the worst , assuming the tire was a basket case and hoping I could limp home with all my paper currency as a boot. Took the tire off and looked a the inside. The sailcloth patch was pristine. I had a little piece of truck tire wire elsewhere and a tiny hole in the tube there. And paper thin tread Fine silk letter paper thin. That patch did its job. (And took me successfully around many corners on big time descents with me being completely unaware it was there. Looking at the tire or running my hand over it, the damage was obvious. Riding it, I never felt the tire was anything but perfect.)

Ben
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Old 09-05-16, 05:08 AM
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Only patching the inside and leaving the tread open is a risk level I find unacceptable for me. A patch is nowhere near as robust as the tread, and is unquestionably a weak spot because of that. A piece of debris will not only go through the patch far more easily, the open gash in the tread is liable to catch and trap that debris.

I done doubt people have many lucky miles; people win at the casino, too.
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Old 09-06-16, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I done doubt people have many lucky miles; people win at the casino, too.
And it is all in the probabilities... in this case, the unlucky mile = win at the casino.
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Old 09-06-16, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by FIVE ONE SIX View Post
you can definitely get it to work with a tube, just do the crazy glue trick.
Cyanoacrilates like Crazy Glue and Super Glue dry hard.

Silicone sealant like Shoe Goo or Goop is a better choice...
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