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Under what conditions would you consider a 1x11??

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Under what conditions would you consider a 1x11??

Old 09-22-16, 04:05 PM
  #76  
ShortLegCyclist
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Run on sentence:

If the weight and gear ratios were the same and the derailleur system shifted the FD so all you had to do was push an up or down button to move between every gear, would you even care how many rings were on front or cogs in the back?
Sounds like an internal gear solution.

If you could give me a Pinion or Rohloff that weighed no more than a derailleur system, I would take that on all my bikes.
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Old 09-22-16, 04:36 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
A friend recently had a 1X11 built up because he wanted a very light bike. It's a Cannondale frame and SRAM components. 40t rear and 40 or 42 front. He seems happy with it and it only weighs 12 lbs. It's pretty hilly here, I think light weight was his priority. He rides lots of miles but I don't think he obsesses about gear steps, cadence and all that.
Alright, I'm not going to do the maths, but what is the weight savings for a 1x with an 11-40 in back? If it's 3-400 grams (which I'm sure it's not), then maybe it's worth the hassle, only if your primary concern is building the lightest thing you can. But, I've seen more than one non-weird 1x, normal 2x road bike that weigh under 12lb at the bike shop I frequent (other people's bikes, not stock stuff).

Last edited by cthenn; 09-22-16 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 09-22-16, 05:40 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
... I have no issues whatsoever shifting and trimming a FD, even under race conditions. This seems like a rider issue, not a mechanical one. ...
Hi cthenn,

I can say the same thing about shifting and trimming a front derailleur with a friction shifter. But there's another issue that I forgot to mention: Dropping a chain off the small chainring. Why do many pros use chain guards below their front derailleurs? Because even a properly adjusted front derailleur can, when the bike is being ridden hard, drop a chain on the inside of the small chainring during shifting. This isn't unique to index shifting---it is just as serious of a problem with friction shifting---but it is almost never a concern for road cyclists with 1x setups. I've seen the bottom bracket shells of many composite carbon frames scared and some ruined by this.


Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
... If you are riding 50x28, that is a severely crossed chainline that probably does cause a problem with your FD. ...
I agree. Cross-chaining from the large chainring of a 2x setup to the large sprocket of the cassette is problematic. As I explained, my 2x setup was a 34-50t x 11-26t ---I didn't switch to a 11-28t cassette until I converted to 1x. And I avoided cross-chaining from big chainring to big sprocket with my 2x setup except when I was testing the gear ratio to see if a 1x setup would work for me.


1x drivelines are less severe than 2x drivelines
Another benefit of a 1x drivetrain is a centered chainring. A single chainring in the center of the driveline will have a LESS severe angle when the chain is crossed to either end of the cassette compared to a 2x chainring setup. In a 2x setup, the fact that the large chainring is off-center to the outside of the driveline means that crossing from the big chainring to the biggest sprocket is MORE severe than a 1x setup. The same is true when crossing the small chainring to the small sprocket because the small chainring is off-center to the inside of the driveline. A 1x setup reduces the severity of cross-chaining, making it more usable.

I use a lot of geometry in my work and the driveline geometry was one of my top concerns before I converted to a 1x setup. I wanted to be certain that converting a 2x crank for 1x use would place the chainring near the center of the driveline. Fortunately, it worked very well with the SRAM X-Sync chainring. If I remember correctly, SRAM recommends placing the 1x chainring a millimeter or two to the outside of the driveline. Even in this position, the angle from the chainring to the large sprocket is less than a comparable 2x setup.

Kind regards, RoadLight
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Old 09-22-16, 06:09 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Jiggle View Post
... That makes no sense. If you were using a higher cadence you would tend to use smaller gears, not larger.
Hi Jiggle,

I can see why you'd think that. But you're forgetting that I also wrote "... as my cycling improved and I trained to a higher cadence ...". Yes, to increase the cadence you shift down to a smaller chainring or a larger sprocket. But as I improved my hill-climbing, I found that I no longer needed to shift down to such a small gear ratio in order sustain a good cadence.

I'll share part of my progression: For many years, I would usually get out of the saddle when I climbed. As I began to work on increasing my cadence, I found it better to stay in the saddle. When I did this, I discovered that it was easy to pull the pedals as I climbed in a seated position. This was a "revelation" to me. I'd been told for decades that a superior pedal stroke will have the cyclist applying power for the largest possible arc. But I never felt comfortable pulling the pedal up no matter how long I trained at it. It still doesn't feel comfortable when riding on level roads or down hills.

When I started working on hill-climbing from a seated position, I discovered that pulling the pedals up on the back of the stroke (from 6 to 12 o'clock) not only enabled me to apply more power for a greater portion of the pedaling arc, but it also reduced the stress on my quads and I benefited from increased endurance. Today, climbing is one of my favorite and most powerful parts of cycling and I rarely ever need the three biggest sprockets (22, 25, 28t) unless I'm battling a very stiff headwind. Now, during the winter months when I train indoors, I'll use HIIT drills and practice pulling.

Kind regards, RoadLight
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Old 09-22-16, 06:49 PM
  #80  
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I put 1x on my commuter because the frame didn't have a braze-on FD mount.

In all seriousness, I just wanted to try it. I did a Force group with an 11-42 Apex cassette so I didn't have to worry about the XD driver body for my Hope hubs.

I have bikes in the garage with Di2, eTap and EPS, as well as several mechanical group sets ranging from current to the mid-80s and I just wanted to try it.

I'm 100% road (don't even own a MTB), a buddy works for SRAM and putting together a group set was about the same as cost as a Tiagra/105 build.

I kept the standard 42t chainring and I can't complain on form and function (regarding the gaps). The bike it's on will never see a race, will most likely never see a group ride (unless commuting in a non-paceline format with other people is considered that). Someday it might be used to do a tour, I specifically built the bike to be about comfort/endurance.

I didn't care about weight, heck the cassette is something like 530g alone. With loaded panniers, the bike exceeds 33 pounds anyway.

For me, it really came to having something 'different' and I like riding conversation pieces.
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Old 09-22-16, 07:08 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
A 50x28 at 80rpm is 11.2mph. Are you serious or just misquoting your actual cadence/speed? Then again, if you are climbing 12.5% grades at 11.2mph we are clearly quite different cyclists.
Hi joejack951,

No, that's no typo and 11 mph is about right. That seems incredibly slow to me when I'm spinning uphill at 80 rpm or higher while moving less than 12 mph. It's harder to hold a straight line because it feels like I've lost a big part of my balance on the bike when I lost the forward momentum that I usually have on lesser grades. So it's difficult for me to imagine using a gear ratio lower than 50x28t. I'll probably feel differently when I have the opportunity to climb steeper and longer hills (which is why I'm planning for an 11x32t or 11x36t cassette down the road).

I'm not sure if my being a "quite different cyclist" is good or bad. Most of the time, when I climb the two biggest hills in my area with 12.5% grades, I power up in 50x19t at 16-17 mph while holding a power of 370-420 watts. On one of the shorter hills with about the same grade I typically race up in 50x14t at 19-21 mph. Again, this latter example is a short hill and I only have to hold my power at 520-570 watts for about 20-30 seconds before the grade starts to reduce. (I use a Stages power meter on one of their new composite carbon crank arms to match my SRAM Red crank.)

Look, I don't pretend to represent "all" cyclists---not even an "average" cyclist. But I am trying to answer the OP by providing one cyclist's perspective on the switch to a 1x drivetrain. My posts tend to be wordy because I try to write so beginners can benefit from them. (I remember what it's like to be the new guy trying to learn the lingo and inside tricks.) So I try to spell things out, avoid too many acronyms and provide explanations and examples.

Obviously, that causes trouble when other members disagree over the details. And that's fine---we each have our own perspective on cycling. But I am amazed at the apparent dislike of 1x. I was happy with a 2x6 drivetrain for many years. But I love what index-shifting has done for the rear derailleur! And today's 1x11 drivetrains only have one less gear combination than the 2x6 on my vintage bike (which I still have).

Kind regards, RoadLight
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Old 09-22-16, 07:32 PM
  #82  
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The flatter it is the more you want the 2nd chainring. I have a 1x11 on my fat bike but that's because I want the extreme dependability in extreme conditions and I'm willing to give up the close spacing. On hills the change needed from one gear to the next is not as critical as on the road when a breeze comes up or a 1% grade comes up and you want to just change your gearing a tiny bit to keep that perfect cadence. Even changing from a closely spaced 11 cog to a 12 cog makes for a significant difference in cadence and that's no big deal if, for instance, you'r'e about to hit a 3% grade but if you just hit a bit of a minor headwind and want to maintain a comfortable 90rpm (you put in the comfortable number) then having closely spaced gearing is, IMHO, a HUGE positive and I would NEVER put a 1x11 system on a typical road bike. If I were the ruler of the universe it would be illegal !
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Old 09-22-16, 08:43 PM
  #83  
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1x is ugly
Itty bitty mtb chainring and a Pizza pie in the back
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Old 09-23-16, 08:30 AM
  #84  
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After trying 1x on the mountain bike, I wanted the same for road. Then I realized how often I find myself between gears on long stretches with my 50/34 11-30 9-speed setup. Until we have CVTs, my FD isn't going anywhere.
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Old 09-23-16, 08:38 AM
  #85  
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I'd never consider 1x drivetrain.

Even with a 1x12, I'd still have to compromise either gearing range, or get larger steps between gears. Plus have more cross chaining when climbing and stressing the chain.

Triple, or a 28-46 double are better for me. Extra weight - not a problem. Chain dropping - can't remember last time that happened when using correct FD, RD and chain length. A few times when doing some incompatible mix-matching in between drivetrain changes. But even then very, very seldom.
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Old 09-23-16, 08:46 AM
  #86  
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Guess I'm lucky that a 5rpm cadence chance doesn't ruin my day.
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Old 09-23-16, 08:50 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by digibud View Post
I would NEVER put a 1x11 system on a typical road bike.

If I were the ruler of the universe it would be illegal !
Originally Posted by redfooj View Post
1x is ugly
Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
I'd never consider 1x drivetrain.
Love it
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Old 09-23-16, 09:07 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
Guess I'm lucky that a 5rpm cadence chance doesn't ruin my day.
+1

I didn't realize people changed gears or watched their cadence this closely.
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Old 09-23-16, 09:52 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by SpeshulEd View Post
+1

I didn't realize people changed gears or watched their cadence this closely.
I haven't paid any attention to my cadence for almost 5 years, because my Garmin speed/cadence sensor broke in 2011. Before that I noticed my average cadence was consistently 89-96 depending on the type of terrain.

Last fall I demoed a Stages PM for a month, and my average cadence was consistently 89-93.

I have no need to pay any attention to my cadence, because it's it's naturally right about where it should be.
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Old 09-23-16, 10:09 AM
  #90  
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I'm with RoadLight on this one. I love the 1x11 speed set-up and I think it's perfect if you don't ride many hills. I've got a 52x11-28t and I do probably 99% of my riding in 52x21 or 52x19. I'm going to swap to a 12-25 cassette next year to add an 18 ring. I'd love to get a 20 as well.

If I moved to the mountains, I would probably reconsider.
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Old 09-23-16, 10:33 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by SpeshulEd View Post
I didn't realize people changed gears or watched their cadence this closely.
This prompted me to go back and look at the actual numbers. I've ridden my 1x road bike 13 times now since the switch. Here's what I found:

My average cadence on the last 13 rides on 1x: 81
My average cadence on the previous 13 ride before 1x: 77

Apparently, 1x has increased my cadence. I thought I noticed it on rides, but now I see the data to back it up.
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Old 09-23-16, 11:40 AM
  #92  
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I don't ride much road and didn't read all 4 pages of replies but my next mtb will be a 1x11. For the trails that I ride on, technical and slow with mots of climbs, a 1x11 is just right. No need to worry about the front drive rings or the chain coming off from a hard bump, just pedal and worry about the trail with the comfort of knowing that I have a wide range of gears available to me on the cassette.

Sometimes more isn't better, just redundant. On a road bike, with not much of a need for rapid and drastic changes in gear ratios, I would think the standard compact is near ideal.
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Old 09-23-16, 11:50 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by RoadLight View Post
Hi joejack951,

No, that's no typo and 11 mph is about right. That seems incredibly slow to me when I'm spinning uphill at 80 rpm or higher while moving less than 12 mph. It's harder to hold a straight line because it feels like I've lost a big part of my balance on the bike when I lost the forward momentum that I usually have on lesser grades. So it's difficult for me to imagine using a gear ratio lower than 50x28t. I'll probably feel differently when I have the opportunity to climb steeper and longer hills (which is why I'm planning for an 11x32t or 11x36t cassette down the road).

I'm not sure if my being a "quite different cyclist" is good or bad. Most of the time, when I climb the two biggest hills in my area with 12.5% grades, I power up in 50x19t at 16-17 mph while holding a power of 370-420 watts. On one of the shorter hills with about the same grade I typically race up in 50x14t at 19-21 mph. Again, this latter example is a short hill and I only have to hold my power at 520-570 watts for about 20-30 seconds before the grade starts to reduce. (I use a Stages power meter on one of their new composite carbon crank arms to match my SRAM Red crank.)

Look, I don't pretend to represent "all" cyclists---not even an "average" cyclist. But I am trying to answer the OP by providing one cyclist's perspective on the switch to a 1x drivetrain. My posts tend to be wordy because I try to write so beginners can benefit from them. (I remember what it's like to be the new guy trying to learn the lingo and inside tricks.) So I try to spell things out, avoid too many acronyms and provide explanations and examples.

Obviously, that causes trouble when other members disagree over the details. And that's fine---we each have our own perspective on cycling. But I am amazed at the apparent dislike of 1x. I was happy with a 2x6 drivetrain for many years. But I love what index-shifting has done for the rear derailleur! And today's 1x11 drivetrains only have one less gear combination than the 2x6 on my vintage bike (which I still have).

Kind regards, RoadLight
Ummm.


16mph up a 12% grade would require about 800w give or take, depending on your weight.
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Old 09-23-16, 12:29 PM
  #94  
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16mph up a 12% grade should get a contract with Sky and a shot at the Tour. Maybe I'm off on that. Maybe only the Vuelta....
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Old 09-23-16, 12:58 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by 69chevy View Post
Ummm.


16mph up a 12% grade would require about 800w give or take, depending on your weight.
Happens in Zwift all the time.

I watched a guy do the entire climb (2000' / 10 miles) at 6.5w/kg last week. His nickname was advertising a coaching service, which I found a bit comical.
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Old 09-23-16, 02:12 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by jarrett2 View Post
love it
. ?
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Old 09-23-16, 02:18 PM
  #97  
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Strava or it didn't happen. People crushing 15% grades at 15+ mph happens all the time on the internet. 😉
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Old 09-23-16, 03:45 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by digibud View Post
16mph up a 12% grade should get a contract with Sky and a shot at the Tour. Maybe I'm off on that. Maybe only the Vuelta....
For 30 seconds. Not going to get a pro contract with that.

My last road bike had the smallest gear 42x25, which suited me fine sitting on 12% and standing on short 20%. I can see a 1x with a 50t front ring work ok....but with no macroshift I wouldn't want it. With modern smooth action front deraillers, you guys need to start viewing your front shift as just as useful as your rear.
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Old 09-23-16, 05:41 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
But what is the utility of it? As far as I can tell, you are only losing functionality by going 1x. You gain nothing and lose very little weight. And if the use case is flat roads, the weight doesn't matter anyway.
Aerodynamics? I'm sure the difference is tiny, but they always claim that the dumbest little things will save you 30 seconds.
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Old 09-23-16, 06:38 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by DXchulo View Post
Aerodynamics? I'm sure the difference is tiny, but they always claim that the dumbest little things will save you 30 seconds.
It is almost comical but that is the best claim they made. Everything else might be problems that SRAM users have gotten used to (dropped chains, noisy drivetrains, and chainrings wearing out) but are all non-issues with any bike I have ever owned.
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