ti vs al
 

I have been riding for almost a year now and enjoy it more than I thought I would. I am considering upgrading from my $1100 specialized allez to something nicer even though I know the bike is more than adequate for my ability level. I have a few questions about titanium and would appreciate any input you guys may have.

People that have ti bike rave about how much better the ride is. Can someone quantify this a little more.
Are they more responsive? do they soak up road vibration better? What exactly makes ti better than al other than weight?

I have looked at Litespeed which has tons of options and different shaped tubes etc and Moots which seems to be closer to the custom side with the nice welds etc but less options. Has anyone owned both and do you have any opinions on them? Any other ti manufacturers out there that I should look at.

Basically I'm looking to get a smooth comfortable ride that will encourage me to spend more time on the bike, but also for the amount of money I want something with a little soul.

I have a Moots Vamoots and a couple of high end aluminum bikes. At 105psi with a Fizik Pave saddle and similar wheels - they all ride the same. Does the fact that they're high end frames guarantee that they will ride better than your allez - who knows. You might find they're not worth the newly spent 5 grand.

Buy any high end bike in any material because you're looking for an excellent ride.

Buy a ti bike because you like the way they look.

What he said. And despite Litespeeds shaped tubes and all thier hype about it,
makers like Moots,Seven and Merlin do a wonderful job with round tubes. Go for over the top shaping because you like the way it looks.

Ti is just real NICE:D

hahaha, MERTON is in the house!

i think what Trogon is saying above is true given a nicely paved surface. If your riding brings you on roads that are less than perfect then Ti beats Al in every single ride category (feel, comfort, life, power transfer) >> although high end Eddy Merkxx Al feels close to Lightspeed Ti.

The strength of good Ti frames lies in its welds and right amount of flex.

**weak: Ti has the 'soul' you are looking for. people love their Ti & CF & steel bikes. I've yet to find the unique love affair with Al that the owners of other materials boast about.

Gimmie a break! Where does this stuff get dredged up from?

:roflmao:

I just made the move from Al to Ti. I don't notice a difference in ride quality when I'm in the city. I notice a big difference when I'm out in the county on the chip sealed roads that haven't been maintained for years.

I only have ~200 miles on the Ti with a longest ride of ~50 miles. I'll probably put 80 miles in this week end. At that distance I can feel a difference in overall fatigue after the ride. I'm not talking about just being tired from the ride, but my joints don't ache and I'm more willing to get back on the bike the day after a long ride.

Is it the Ti? Is it the new bike smell? Only time will tell.

He's right. Its all about the look. Frames are all so light these days, and ride quality can be adjusted with a million other components, that people pay for the decals, shininess etc.
I might be wrong, so don't take my word for it.

I've found the ride quality of aluminium is not as good as my Ti bike.

Of course, I must qualify this statement as I've only ever ridden an empty aluminium coke can. It's lack of wheels, cranks etc, may have flavoured my rather negative view of the material. I must say though, the fatigue life was exceptionally poor.

Seriously, I have a Litespeed and I love it. Just make sure whatever you get fits.

While I understand that this matters not to the folks that ride for fun, 30-40-50 miles at a pop...given that there are several manufacturers that support pro cycling that also make titanium bikes, who in the pro peloton rides titanium?
Last one I could come up with was last year's Sierra Nevada team that rode Serotta Legend titanium frames.

With weight, power transfer, and comfort paramount to being successful on a bike that you ride for six hours a day, I'd think that the best riders in the world would want to ride what appears to be the best frame material going. No?

Why not?

More info and maybe a few answers

I don't think it's material so much as the engineering/design that goes into the product. Even poorly designed unobtanium would make for a bad frame.




People buy on Emotion, not because something is better. I find this be very true in the cycling world where Brand labels and graphics matter as much as anything else.

I don't see anything magical about titanium. I've ridden a Litespeed solano, what's the big deal about? My opinion these days is that Titanium's appeal is not based on it's ultility, but rather it's exotic status.

Sydney: you just keep believing that. It gets dredged up from people who have riden thousands of miles on each material. Do I need to spend $$$ on CF seatposts, rails, fork, etc on a non-Al bike to smooth out the ride? you can answer that. We are talking about all things equal, right?

I have nothing against Al. Given a 3K budget, i doubt many would choose a Al material. And if you hug your Al bike and love it then i apologize for the lack of soul comment. I just don't see it.

53-11 altheway rode a medium level Ti bike from a high end bike manufacturer and didn't see the difference.

Again, to answer the original question. We have a guy who is looking for a soulful, fast & comfortable ride from an upgrade of his current $1200 Al bike. I take that as someone who is looking for a $2.5K or more ride that inspires him to ride more and with more confidence than he did before. I think the answers here are all valid. If you have ridden on the potholed & beat up roads of the upper midwest and think that Al frames without highend CF in the right places is as smooth a ride as Ti then good luck to you. I've been on this forum long enough to argue the ride of differing materials.

But he needs to know. I'll say high end Eddie Merkyx Al is a nice ride.

Oh, really?

BTW..you mentioned the "right amount of flex"....the only way you are getting that is if the tubing was hand selected for you and measured as such by a qualified builder...because if I have two guys the same height who, in theory would ride the same size bike (given the particulars of their body styles) but one guy was 50 pounds heavier than the other, who has the "right amount of flex"? The light guy or the heavy guy?

this is more about "what I ride is best"...I sell titanium. If I get someone who just HAS to spend more money for a bike, "cash or credit?"...

BTW2...titanium is just like carbon and aluminum...not all of it is created equal. Having ridden a Litespeed and a Serotta, no comparison. Both are nice bikes, like a Ford and a Ferarri are both nice cars.

I should have test ridden a Vortex. Hopefully that does better than a Solano for power transfer.

Like I said, the design is more important than the material. You have to compare apples to apples.

Will Ti designed to equal the power transfer of a stiff aluminum frame have better ride quality?

Exactly, what is stiff for one guy is flexy for another. The ride can be "tuned" however the builder decides by the diameter and guage of the tubing etc.

If someone can show that "properly selected" Ti transfers power like stiff Aluminum, but rides better I'll believe in the "magical " qualities of unobtanium.

EDIT: The only reason I might like really stiff Ti is becasue it might be lighter than equally stiff Aluminum and possibly have a longer fatigue life (since Ti has a fatigue limit like steel, no?)

Heck, Click on my sig under frame fatigue tests. All the Cannondale CAAD frames pass the EFBe test under the maximum load (291 lbs to the pedals 100,000 times). How much fatigue life do you need?

To me a "comfort flex" Ti bike is like a "comfort flex" steel bike only it may be more light weight and it can't rust. ( I could be wrong about this, correct me if I'm wrong)

Now I ride a Lightspeed Ultimate, with the 6/4 & 3/2 Ti tubing. I find it stiffer than my buddy's lightspeed classic. But that is on a 59cm framset.

Roadwarrior: there is a difference between someone buying a Legend Ti (outswide the budget of this questioner?!) and completing it with a weight weenie saving CF material and someone who buys a Al bike and NEEDS to buy the road dampening effect of CF (i knew someone would bring that up, good catch)

**BTW: this is all good clean fun. again, if this original questioner is riding on the beat up, potholed roads many of us ride on, the ride characteristics of materials become more apparent.

i really have nothing against Al and would ride a Eddie Merkyx Al frameset anytime.

Riphraph, if the bike is stiff it shouldn't matter whether it is made out of Ti or aluminum. A stiff bike is a stiff bike. They both are going to ride hard.

If you want a frame with some flex in the tubing you'll have to go with a material with a fatigue limit. You can't do this with aluminum. To me that is the main difference.

I'll go ride a Vortex next I think. (litespeed's high performnace bike)

Oh really? You have actually ridden some? Which model? What makes Eddys so special?

i have riden a c'dale CAAD4 for extended miles. the eddy seems to be oversized in all the right places, the difference probably came in the more aggressive angles from a racing type framset.

<takes leave to look for BS filter,hip boots and shovel>

roadwarrior - fantastic link if you are considering having a hip replacement, are into Greek mythology or are building the starship Enterprise. :D

I may be wrong, but you appear to be asking a rhetorical question.

The question is 'why not?'. Cost, difficult of working with Ti, pros ridin' what they are given coz they ain't payin', Hein Verbruggens share interests in Taiwanese alumuminum frame manufactuering....can you elaborate.

Is the shovel Ti, aluminium, or steel?

No way am I asking what material the boots are made of.