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Will 31mm super wide wheels become the new standard?

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Will 31mm super wide wheels become the new standard?

Old 10-11-16, 03:11 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
How about - When designed was designed to go as fast as possible on the roads it was designed for given the cost constraints for the market it was designed for.
That's at least 137% more kludgy and it brings you back to not being able to eliminate stuff like touring bikes (which I don't think should be eliminated, anyway).
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Old 10-11-16, 03:15 PM
  #127  
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I can see the relevance of mass-start legality in the 33, not sure about here. Like @Bandera, I see road cycling as an activity that takes much inspiration from road racing past and present, but is a big tent in and of itself. Do we need to rehash the argument over what a road bike, what road cycling is, in order to have a discussion about evolving wheel technology?
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Old 10-11-16, 03:53 PM
  #128  
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If we're talking about mass start legality, you'd have to throw out every weight weenie "road" bike.

Also, I feel the hashtag #dontbesucharoadie strongly applies to this thread. You guys are all being a bit over the top. lol.
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Old 10-11-16, 05:14 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I can see the relevance of mass-start legality in the 33, not sure about here. Like @Bandera, I see road cycling as an activity that takes much inspiration from road racing past and present, but is a big tent in and of itself. Do we need to rehash the argument over what a road bike, what road cycling is, in order to have a discussion about evolving wheel technology?
The reason is not exclusion or small tent as you say. Germane because this thread asks about a new standard.

I believe depending on how you define Road Cycling, I can give a very good - or not so good (I wouldn't bother answering) response.

My experience is most "racing bikes" sold are never raced, but other than tires, some gears, position and a few things hanging off of them, they are road racing bikes.
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Old 10-11-16, 05:22 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by SpeshulEd View Post
If we're talking about mass start legality, you'd have to throw out every weight weenie "road" bike.
I did adress that here:
Originally Posted by Doge View Post
A road bike is a mass start legal* racing bike.

*Legal for road racing for a National UCI feeding cycling authority. I think the UCI rules are too narrow. I don't think the USAC ones are.
A weight weenie bike is fine until getting into UCI definitions, which would also affect other things.
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Old 10-11-16, 06:13 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
The reason is not exclusion or small tent as you say. Germane because this thread asks about a new standard.

I believe depending on how you define Road Cycling, I can give a very good - or not so good (I wouldn't bother answering) response.
If you're going to get your knickers in such a twist regarding the definition of 'road bike,' why don't you focus on the loose use of 'standard' instead?
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Old 10-11-16, 06:29 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
... the definition of 'road bike,' why don't you focus on the loose use of 'standard' instead?
Because this is Bike forum, not a science/standards forum.
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Old 10-11-16, 10:28 PM
  #133  
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Wow...what bunch of nonsense.

I think the lingua franca that is the word road bike has a fairly obvious meaning.

You're all arguing with Doge for the sake of it.

...and I say that as an "All-Road" rider.

To answer the OP's question...too soon to tell. ENVE's move is pretty bold, nevertheless those are probably some high performance aero wheels in the real world, and depending on the tire, it's going to be all about lower psi, yet good speed because sidewalls will be straighter, road buzz even more effectively nullified, and contact patch is shorter...

It's cool that they did this, they probably saved the weight (older version of 4.5 is quite heavier) due to not having the hindrance of a brake track...and although disc brakes weigh marginally more, it isn't rotating mass at the edge of the wheel...
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Old 10-12-16, 03:33 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
A big factor is that we are used to the sensation of increasing vibration as speed increases,

so a high pressure tire feels faster, whether it is or not.

The riders that you ask will probably be subject to this.
Agree. If it "feels" faster, then it must "be" faster. Any input must be filtered. At least tires are an easy change to make and test.
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Old 10-12-16, 06:05 AM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by UnfilteredDregs View Post
Wow...what bunch of nonsense.

You're all arguing with Doge for the sake of it.
Well duh. It is the onset of the season before winter, after all.
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Old 10-12-16, 08:41 AM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
The reason is not exclusion or small tent as you say. Germane because this thread asks about a new standard.

I believe depending on how you define Road Cycling, I can give a very good - or not so good (I wouldn't bother answering) response.

My experience is most "racing bikes" sold are never raced, but other than tires, some gears, position and a few things hanging off of them, they are road racing bikes.
A new rim standard. Rims and tires in racing used to be much wider before they got narrow -- who's to say that narrow rims and tires weren't the historical aberration, and now things are finally getting back to what's sensible?
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Old 10-12-16, 10:53 AM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by link0 View Post
25mm is the current standard in the TdF. I suspect 28mm will be the standard soon.
Originally Posted by 69chevy View Post
AFAIK most pros use 25mm tubulars nowadays. That's the same width you get from a 23mm tire on a rim with 17mm inner width. When the race has roads with poor pavement, you can see 28mm tubs on pro bikes. That's a bit wider than a 25mm clincher on a 17mm rim. Even with wider rims, a 28mm tire will have an aero disadvantage (according the silca blog), so I doubt that it will become a "standard" for the tdf anytime soon.
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Old 10-12-16, 10:57 AM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
A new rim standard. Rims and tires in racing used to be much wider before they got narrow -- who's to say that narrow rims and tires weren't the historical aberration, and now things are finally getting back to what's sensible?
Most standards are determined by the consumer and what sells. Determining what is best for a specific ride is also an art. It is not only art and it is not only guessing but the experience of what works plays into it a lot. Some very fast riders will take the advice of others as to what equipment they should ride.

Others have responded as I have, that a 31mm will never be the fastest choice for the typical, as it stands today, TdF. But few ride the same wheel set in every stage. For smooth pavement, 140-170# rider on flats seems that size is 23-25. Up hill I believe it is 22-23. Rough road it is 25-28. These widths are not new. Clement del Mundos were 28mm late 70s tires.
What is newish is the carbon rim technology that is both deeper and wider than before and still pretty light. So I can see why some are trying new things again. But if you can make a light 28 wide rim, you still can make a lighter 20 wide rim, and for many road applications the difference is made up the hill where that lower weight matters.
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Old 10-12-16, 11:49 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by nemeseri View Post
AFAIK most pros use 25mm tubulars nowadays. That's the same width you get from a 23mm tire on a rim with 17mm inner width. When the race has roads with poor pavement, you can see 28mm tubs on pro bikes. That's a bit wider than a 25mm clincher on a 17mm rim. Even with wider rims, a 28mm tire will have an aero disadvantage (according the silca blog), so I doubt that it will become a "standard" for the tdf anytime soon.

I snagged that picture from an article that said that all Continental sponsored riders rode these during the 2016 TdF.


Is that true? I don't know.
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Old 10-12-16, 12:28 PM
  #140  
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It looked like the bike reported to be Froome's had a tyre was stamped 25mm Chris Froome's Tour de France-winning Pinarello Dogma F8 | Cyclingnews.com

They are often seen on FMB's and Froome was seen in prior years with off brand wheels for the climbs (ax-lightness SRT-24).
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Old 10-12-16, 02:23 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by nemeseri View Post
AFAIK most pros use 25mm tubulars nowadays. That's the same width you get from a 23mm tire on a rim with 17mm inner width. When the race has roads with poor pavement, you can see 28mm tubs on pro bikes. That's a bit wider than a 25mm clincher on a 17mm rim. Even with wider rims, a 28mm tire will have an aero disadvantage (according the silca blog), so I doubt that it will become a "standard" for the tdf anytime soon.
Yeah, I asked Vittoria, and they confirmed that tubulars have about the same volume as the standard volume for ONE-SIZE SMALLER clinchers mounted on narrow rims. That is due to the lack of the clincher bead channel in the tubular rim. The tire is flush on the surface of the rim.
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Old 10-12-16, 02:57 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Well duh. It is the onset of the season before winter, after all.
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Old 10-12-16, 03:05 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Sure, but it doesn't have aero tubing, so I guess it's not "designed to go as fast as possible," and it's no longer a road bike.

This is what I meant when I said that it was ambiguous and arbitrary.
Right and now that reality has forced us to drop that "designed to go as fast as possible" nonsense, a gravel road bike is a road bike again. Any bike designed to be ridden on the roads is a road bike. Glad I was available to clear that up for the people who are having trouble, I know it's confusing.
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Old 10-12-16, 03:07 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Also Paris Roubaix is on the very edge for being called a road race.
What do you mean "on the very edge?" It is or it isn't.
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Old 10-12-16, 03:17 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by 69chevy View Post
I snagged that picture from an article that said that all Continental sponsored riders rode these during the 2016 TdF.


Is that true? I don't know.
Check out the pro bikes from this year's vuelta and tour in this playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...8eMgRtVjEonQbE

Every single one uses 25mm tubulars.
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Old 10-12-16, 03:43 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
What do you mean "on the very edge?" It is or it isn't.
Not really wanting to get into racing discussions, but to answer.

It is a road race and done on less than 28mm tires "normally". While some have tried front shocks and very big tires, I do not expect it to be done on 31s.
Most the issue there is flat spotting and a 27 with more rubber and 50-70psi seems to work. PR does not have the glass and thorn issues of some paved roads.
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Old 10-12-16, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by nemeseri View Post
Check out the pro bikes from this year's vuelta and tour in this playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...8eMgRtVjEonQbE

Every single one uses 25mm tubulars.
So he had a good term - a "Pro Bike". Maybe that is one most can live with for talking about mass start legal bikes that are popular on group rides.
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Old 10-12-16, 04:13 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Not really wanting to get into racing discussions, but to answer.
So "it's on the very edge of being a road race" is long-winded for "it's a road race."
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Old 10-12-16, 04:17 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
So "it's on the very edge of being a road race" is long-winded for "it's a road race."
No. It is on the edge of the rules. And they disregard some of them.
I would not say Froome running without his bike made the TdF not a bike race. But it was on the edge of the rules, so they had a meeting about it.

Letter of the UCI rules, Paris Roubaix would be very different. So it is on the edge, or rules are broken and no-one cares. It is more a celebration with bikes involved using tyres smaller than 31mm.
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Old 10-12-16, 04:20 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by UnfilteredDregs View Post
You're all arguing for the sake of it.
Standard operating procedure. You new here?
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