Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Will 31mm super wide wheels become the new standard?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Will 31mm super wide wheels become the new standard?

Old 10-12-16, 04:22 PM
  #151  
Doge
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,351

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3326 Post(s)
Liked 299 Times in 214 Posts
Originally Posted by BillyD View Post
Standard operating procedure. You new here?
Dear Super Mod,
Can you please add a Pro-Bike forum and define it as a Mass Start legal bike that people ride when not racing?
Doge is offline  
Old 10-12-16, 06:28 PM
  #152  
link0
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
link0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 794

Bikes: '11 Merlin Extralight, '98 Dean Castanza, '89 Schwinn Prologue

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by nemeseri View Post
AFAIK most pros use 25mm tubulars nowadays. That's the same width you get from a 23mm tire on a rim with 17mm inner width. When the race has roads with poor pavement, you can see 28mm tubs on pro bikes. That's a bit wider than a 25mm clincher on a 17mm rim. Even with wider rims, a 28mm tire will have an aero disadvantage (according the silca blog), so I doubt that it will become a "standard" for the tdf anytime soon.
I've seen many GCN videos of pro bikes where they use a caliper to measure their tire width. Most measure btw 24mm-26mm, mostly very close to 25mm.
link0 is offline  
Old 10-12-16, 08:31 PM
  #153  
nemeseri
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 465

Bikes: Trek Emonda SL build, CAAD10, Bianchi Pista '13, Litespeed Antares '03

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by link0 View Post
I've seen many GCN videos of pro bikes where they use a caliper to measure their tire width. Most measure btw 24mm-26mm, mostly very close to 25mm.
Yes. That's my point. They use tubular tires that have the same air volume / width as 23mm clinchers on 17c rims. So refering to pros simply doesn't support the need of wider tires. Of course wider might be faster, I just wanted to point out this.
nemeseri is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 07:15 AM
  #154  
PepeM
Senior Member
 
PepeM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,861
Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2738 Post(s)
Liked 114 Times in 57 Posts
What's this I hear about Tony Martin winning Worlds on clinchers?
PepeM is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 07:56 AM
  #155  
joejack951
Senior Member
 
joejack951's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 12,062

Bikes: 2016 Hong Fu FM-079-F, 1984 Trek 660, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2016 Islabikes Beinn 20 (son's)

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1225 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 49 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Yeah, I asked Vittoria, and they confirmed that tubulars have about the same volume as the standard volume for ONE-SIZE SMALLER clinchers mounted on narrow rims. That is due to the lack of the clincher bead channel in the tubular rim. The tire is flush on the surface of the rim.
I may be thinking slowly this morning but I don't see how air volume inside of the clincher bead channel is relevant. That zone is rigid; it adds no compliance to the tire. In effect, it is wasted space and weight on the tire, tube, and rim.
joejack951 is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 09:29 AM
  #156  
Doge
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,351

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3326 Post(s)
Liked 299 Times in 214 Posts
Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
What's this I hear about Tony Martin winning Worlds on clinchers?
Brandon also did/does clinchers for TT. In this case I believe Brandon was using 24mm (as I posted) tubulars.

Esp this course I can see clinchers as an option.
Clinchers tend to seat better and when things are real smooth the advantages on more air and grip and pinch flats are less. The mass difference is small and the change in speed is small.

Still - I think tubulars are the better choice. He may have won by 5 more sec :-)
Doge is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 09:38 AM
  #157  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 22,132
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15279 Post(s)
Liked 6,521 Times in 3,683 Posts
Originally Posted by Doge View Post
No.
So you're telling me the Paris-Roubaix is NOT a road race. In the other thread you said Cervelo's R3 is a a road bike because it has road in the url and the R3 is on the podium every year at the Paris-Roubaix. It's kind of the flagship race for this particular road bike. But now you're saying it's not a road race. Because some nonsense about bikes made to be ridden on the road aren't road bikes. Got it.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 10:12 AM
  #158  
Doge
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,351

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3326 Post(s)
Liked 299 Times in 214 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
So you're telling me the Paris-Roubaix is NOT a road race. ...
This was my quote about PR:
Originally Posted by Doge View Post
It is a road race and ...
I select tires more on construction and tread than width. And depending on construction/material two tires the same size at 50psi will not be the same size at 130psi. The measure is what they measure inflated to ideal ride pressure.
This is how I measure tire width.

TireWidth Veloflex.jpg
TireWidthWP_20160107_08_23_03_Pro.jpg

And then select based on tread and casing for the event. The left was used for a dirt "road race" and PR because of tread and material. The sizes of the casing was within 1mm (25.5 and 26.5). Left is cotton, right is silk. There is no question the better for a dry ride on clean (from glass and trash), but sidewalls there important. The mass differences is about 100g/tire.
FMBAndDugast pre Chico Feb 2015 sm.jpg
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Glueing FMB.jpg (96.1 KB, 92 views)

Last edited by Doge; 10-13-16 at 10:18 AM.
Doge is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 01:50 PM
  #159  
smarkinson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,003
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 332 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
What's this I hear about Tony Martin winning Worlds on clinchers?
Spec turbo cottons. 24mm front due to better Aero matching with the rim and 26mm at the back. Chosen because the team believe they are faster.

https://velonews.competitor.com/2016/...r-tires_422800
smarkinson is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 04:43 PM
  #160  
Doge
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,351

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3326 Post(s)
Liked 299 Times in 214 Posts
Originally Posted by smarkinson View Post
Spec turbo cottons. 24mm front due to better Aero matching with the rim and 26mm at the back. Chosen because the team believe they are faster.

No tubulars needed ? Martin wins worlds with clincher tires | VeloNews.com
Several things that are interesting. Nice to see he chose Shimano over the paired SRAM that normally goes with Specialized. Also using the USA made HED. So kinda all (Shimano USA drive a lot of product design) USA parts.

The hit on tubulars is they squish around / do not seat like clinchers. But they can. Using track glue, and doing something like in my post above - and lottsa glue and ropes to get a firm seal (there are better ways than what I did). So I guess I don't have a super strong opinion one way or the other here. The material on Tony's and Brandon's tires were the same. The profile about the same, and the brand the same. Brandon used tubulars and Brandon clinchers. Brandon was more dominant. Those roads were good. The tire type or construction was not being pushed much.

For those that think Tony gets more attention - probably so. But an American kid, doing what only two Americans before have done, who lives a 3/4 day drive from the HQ of the tires used by both, we shall see. USA is dominating in fast stuff. Clearly Specalized, HED - and Shimano are looking real good here. Did you notice the Tririg front brake on Brandon's bike? More USA stuff.
Doge is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 05:03 PM
  #161  
Bandera
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,932
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1112 Post(s)
Liked 169 Times in 112 Posts
Real world time here for most of us on this sub-forum.
Not being in contention for the UCI TT championships this AM, but being required to go out and ride some big hills in preparation for nothing in particular I glanced at the weather radar: not ominous but sorta dismal.

Selecting the Winter/Wet bike (pic attached) and stuffing a rain jacket to anti-aero my profile into a jersey pocket off I went.
Bands of light rain, big hills and a nice ride (always choose your old shoes) on 28mm tires, full mudguards, a steel frame and a cheerful bell.

It's not always the desperate sprint, lung-searing hilltop finish (been there) or amazing TT mostly it's lousy roads, debris and getting home w/o a flat.

Prosaic? OK. I don't have a follow car.

-Bandera
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Soma_4.jpg (98.5 KB, 74 views)
Bandera is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 05:20 PM
  #162  
Doge
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,351

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3326 Post(s)
Liked 299 Times in 214 Posts
I would think that fits into about <10% of what those on this sub-forum ride. And I used to ride such, but got rid of the wind scoops and just got dirty - and washed off and changed.

Are those even 31s?
Doge is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 06:04 PM
  #163  
HTupolev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,923
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1788 Post(s)
Liked 962 Times in 474 Posts
Originally Posted by Doge View Post
And I used to ride such, but got rid of the wind scoops and just got dirty - and washed off and changed.
The worst I've experienced was actually on a sunny day. Decided to go for a 50-mile ride in the mountains, and because I'm an idiot, I figured that dry weather meant dry+clean roads. 100% paved ride, but:







Ultra-fine sand buried deep into everywhere possible. I tried cleaning it off at home, but wound up having to take it to the LBS and use their air compressor to properly clear things out.

It was a gorgeous ride...



...but suffice it to say, I'm not doing that highway again in the winter time on that bike.
HTupolev is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 06:08 PM
  #164  
Doge
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,351

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3326 Post(s)
Liked 299 Times in 214 Posts
That is a Road Bike!
Doge is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 06:18 PM
  #165  
Bandera
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,932
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1112 Post(s)
Liked 169 Times in 112 Posts
Originally Posted by Doge View Post
I would think that fits into about <10% of what those on this sub-forum ride. And I used to ride such, but got rid of the wind scoops and just got dirty - and washed off and changed.

Are those even 31s?
on 28mm tires
Reading comprehension counts. 28mm w/ mudguards is all that frameset will fit, works fine on my roads.

Not being covered in the carcinogenic filth of automotive drippings, pesticides/herbicides and animal waste by fitting mudguards on a dedicated winter/wet bike makes more sense to me than being bathed in it on the road and washing off. It is a tradition for good reason to fit a "road bike" properly for reasonably comfortable miles in inclement weather to do the miles that keep the fair weather riders at home. Suit yourself, I do.

Since I saw no other cyclist out and about on my route today in the rain where I usually see several I got the seat time in where others were perhaps garage bound unwilling to get their self/machine filthy/wet/cold.

When it dries out the CF Merckx will re-appear, if that makes you feel better.
Horses for courses, as they say...

-Bandera

Last edited by Bandera; 10-14-16 at 07:09 AM.
Bandera is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 06:46 PM
  #166  
PepeM
Senior Member
 
PepeM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,861
Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2738 Post(s)
Liked 114 Times in 57 Posts
Nice ride, deserves nicer fenders.
PepeM is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 06:57 PM
  #167  
Doge
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,351

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3326 Post(s)
Liked 299 Times in 214 Posts
Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
...
Since I saw no other cyclist out and about on my route today in the rain where I usually see several I got the seat time in where others were perhaps garage bound unwilling to get their self/machine filthy/wet/cold.

When it dries out the CF Merckx will re-appear, if that makes you fell better.
Horses for courses, as they say...

-Bandera
Not a definition, but seems the optimized for speed [given the conditions] fits here. The fenders, well.

So what interests do you think non racing Pro-Bike riders have with fender bike riders? Is it the position and bent bars? I don't think it is tire width.
Doge is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 07:01 PM
  #168  
Bandera
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,932
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1112 Post(s)
Liked 169 Times in 112 Posts
Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
Nice ride, deserves nicer fenders.
It probably does, but being a dedicated Winter/Wet bike it's the cost effective function over frills "that which works, works" budget build.
Not going to win the UCI anything but (sorry) my arse stays dry, it works perfectly well and I get the seat time in that keeps Captain Fast garage-bound fearing a drop of spray on his Pinnalized/Specerello Team Shy replica.

Gotta love a good fast enough Beater w/ wider tires, mudguards and a comfortable ride for those days when just getting out should be no excuse.

-Bandera
Bandera is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 07:02 PM
  #169  
PepeM
Senior Member
 
PepeM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,861
Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2738 Post(s)
Liked 114 Times in 57 Posts
Unfortunately I don't have a winter bike but the fenders go on my 'pro-bike' the second the race season ends.
PepeM is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 07:08 PM
  #170  
Doge
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,351

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3326 Post(s)
Liked 299 Times in 214 Posts
What is winter again please?
Doge is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 07:28 PM
  #171  
Bandera
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,932
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1112 Post(s)
Liked 169 Times in 112 Posts
Originally Posted by Doge View Post
So what interests do you think non racing Pro-Bike riders have with fender bike riders? Is it the position and bent bars? I don't think it is tire width.
The Weather, the Time in the Periodic Training Cycle and My Requirements.
> 40 years ago my 1st coach had us strip the derail drivetrain off of our road machines and convert to fixed gears of ~70GI and fit full mudguards for winter Base Miles.
The widest tires that fit were SOP: Who needed a Flat in pissing-down rain 20 miles from home?

I still do both, although on two different machines, both running the widest tires that will fit their framesets.
It may be semi-arid here but when it rains: it Rains.
No need to hide w/ full mudguards fitted and an attitude to just have at it, or suffer in herbicide soaked penance and cattle ****e effulent.
Your choice.

(This is not news, we always rode the most comfortable tires for training and the most supple for racing that fit our
size/weight/terrain/budget "back when".)

Position is position for any flavor of drive train on a road bike, FG or not.

On the Hill Country roads that I have ridden at pace for several decades I have a pretty fair grasp on what works for me on my terrain:
Mudguards in the Winter, lots of Water in Summer, wide quality tires for all use.

Local experience trumps what the Pros use in TdF for Me in My Terrain in it's various seasons at My age & fitness on My Routes.
Unless someone will provide a follow car then give me that Team Shy doo-dads & bits 'n bobs: heated Ollong tea in my bidons and a mechanic for a quick wheel change......

-Bandera

Last edited by Bandera; 10-13-16 at 08:24 PM.
Bandera is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 09:41 PM
  #172  
Doge
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,351

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3326 Post(s)
Liked 299 Times in 214 Posts
Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
...
Local experience trumps what the Pros use in TdF for Me in My Terrain in it's various seasons at My age & fitness on My Routes....
Sure. 40 years means something.
So, based on your 40 years... do you thing 31 mm will be the new standard [for Road Cycling]?
Doge is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 10:02 PM
  #173  
woodcraft
Senior Member
 
woodcraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 5,836
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1734 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 803 Times in 497 Posts
Originally Posted by Doge View Post
I would think that fits into about <10% of what those on this sub-forum ride. And I used to ride such, but got rid of the wind scoops and just got dirty - and washed off and changed.

Are those even 31s?

According to Heine,

fenders are a wash -aerodynamically. The top- is a plus, the trailing end is a minus.
woodcraft is offline  
Old 10-13-16, 10:15 PM
  #174  
Bandera
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,932
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1112 Post(s)
Liked 169 Times in 112 Posts
Originally Posted by Doge View Post
So, based on your 40 years... do you thing 31 mm will be the new standard [for Road Cycling]?
Only time will tell, but for most road cyclists it may make far more practical sense than narrow high pressure tires.

Regardless of what the UCI mandates now there is an obvious divergence between what road cyclists who are venturing onto the varied terrain of North American (un-paved/interesting/rural) roadways are doing and traditional roadie use. Very different Requirements, just look at the pic that You posted in Post#67.
Back to the unpaved roads of the early days of cycling for that young cyclist? Looks like fun.

Personally I'm quite content w/ the well tested hardware configurations I'm used to, including a CF road bike w/ composite CF low spoke count wheels.
'Lectric shifting and hydraulic disc brakes are answers to questions that I never asked, but a more compliant, reliable, flat resistant, and faster wheel/tire combo:
Bring it on!

-Bandera

Last edited by Bandera; 10-14-16 at 10:41 AM.
Bandera is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
FlashBazbo
Road Cycling
64
06-04-18 08:15 AM
Tycho Brahe
Road Cycling
14
05-04-17 01:08 PM
zymphad
Road Cycling
25
11-04-14 07:32 PM
doctor j
Fifty Plus (50+)
28
06-26-14 12:04 PM
George
Fifty Plus (50+)
0
06-27-10 10:13 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.