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Originally Posted by TimothyH
(Post 19288151)
Not a chance in hell.
There is debris inside the roller - that could be part of the bearing or a piece of plastic cracked off the inside of the end cap. The end cap retention screw is cross threaded and there is now way to know how well it is holding the end cap on. It probably won't be a problem short term but I'm not taking the risk of catastrophic failure while riding, no matter how small, especially when I've never ridden rollers before. So no, isn't going to happen. I'm printing the UPS shipping label for the return right now. -Tim- Hi David; thanks for the forward. I don't have an account with that forum, so it won't let me post. The problem he's describing isn't quality, it's caused by a very hard smack on the end of the drum which causes one of the inner bearing shoulders to snap off, which allows the drum to migrate to one side and the inner shoulder then rattles around inside the drum as he's described. It's very rare, I've only had to warranty a few dozen over the 20 years of producing this design but if there is a common handling condition (shipping, the user, etc) which allows the roller to be abused like that, it could happen more than once. We are happy to replace these damaged drums for the lifetime of the product. We are the largest volume roller manufacturer in the world, we started by making the Nashbar brand of rollers 20 years ago, our brand, CycleOps (which we've been making for almost 17 years), Planet X (europe) and now Feedback Sports. We have made countless thousands of drums for rollers, the Omnium trainer, and trike trainers, all using the same design that we continue to evolve with quality enhancements. Many of our rollers are still in use after 20 years, and many have thousands of miles. We know how long belts last, because customers will contact us after almost exactly 10 years of hard use for a new belt. With a lifetime warranty and a reputation to protect with our private label customers, we can't afford poor quality. But, we also can't afford to make everything completely bomb-proof for the few time it may see abuse outside of normal handling. Bicycles and wheels are no different; to be performance machines, their design margins are very skinny, and will fail if the rider is too heavy, roads too harsh, etc. Aluminum bikes made by the top manufacturers will fatigue if you use them in a trainer because the rear triangle can't tolerate the fatigue twisting load of being clamped in (I've seen several bikes by Giant and Cannondale that have failed from trainer use). And unfortunately, like all manufacturers, we get caught with random bad material.. over the years we've suffered thru some small batches of bad bearings, bad end cap material (contaminated) and bad axle end cuts. These have caused patches of failures that we've covered without question around the world. But each time we investigate the root causes and take advance measures. Bearings are now single-sourced to one factory with our own controlled specs on ball roundness and race dimensions. End caps are molded locally, and we only buy material from a single validated source. Axles are now lazer-cut rather than sheared, etc. The quest for the best quality never ceases. I appreciate your support, and your sharing. I am hopeful that we can continue to earn your support and look forward to knowing what we can do to earn it. Pete Colan |
Roller replacement
The problem you're showing is caused by the drum(s) taking a hard hit on the end of the axle, which can snap off the inner bearing shoulder on one side, causing not only the drum to migrate to one side but also the noise you hear (which is the inner shoulder). This can happen during shipment. It's extremely rare, we've only seen a few dozen in the last 20 years (after many thousands of drums produced for all the brands we supply) and the shoulder has been beefed up several times over the 20 year life of the mold but we can't anticipate all the abuse it may see. We still support all of the original rollers we built that are in still service after two decades with new belts and feet that typically wear out with time, and are happy to do it!
The screw is there for dynamic balance.. we use a 2-plane dynamic balancer to identify any slight dynamic imbalance and use screws to offset, much like wheel weights on your car. It serves no other purpose. We have always honored lifetime warranty on our rollers regardless if you're the original purchaser. Please accept our apologies for the damaged drums you've received, and allow us to get you rolling again! --Pete |
Originally Posted by SportCrafters
(Post 19290149)
The problem you're showing is caused by the drum(s) taking a hard hit on the end of the axle, which can snap off the inner bearing shoulder on one side, causing not only the drum to migrate to one side but also the noise you hear (which is the inner shoulder). This can happen during shipment. It's extremely rare, we've only seen a few dozen in the last 20 years (after many thousands of drums produced for all the brands we supply) and the shoulder has been beefed up several times over the 20 year life of the mold but we can't anticipate all the abuse it may see. We still support all of the original rollers we built that are in still service after two decades with new belts and feet that typically wear out with time, and are happy to do it!
The screw is there for dynamic balance.. we use a 2-plane dynamic balancer to identify any slight dynamic imbalance and use screws to offset, much like wheel weights on your car. It serves no other purpose. We have always honored lifetime warranty on our rollers regardless if you're the original purchaser. Please accept our apologies for the damaged drums you've received, and allow us to get you rolling again! --Pete Mr. Colan As the original poster and one with the rollers, I do appreciate the response and it is comforting to know that the issue is shipping damage and not manufacturing quality. The offer to warranty the drum in spite of it not being a manufacturing defect is most generous. Thanks you. The rollers have been sent back to Competitive Cyclist/Backcountry and I've asked that a replacement set be sent. The idea of progressive resistance appeals to me and the many reviews about how well this product works have me wanting to give them a second try. I'm waiting to hear back from Backcountry on shipping a new set. Again, I do appreciate the response and the generous offer to warranty what is really shipping damage. -Tim- |
The new set of rollers came today.
They were packed differently. The first set was in a SportCrafters box which was pretty beat up and had clearly been wet. This set was in the same type of box but that was inside another shipping carton and both were pristine. I really think I got someone's returned item. If you buy from Competitive/Backcountry then check everything for wear and damage and don't hesitate to send it back. As for riding them, I fell. Going to admit this publicly, in my excitement I got on them backwards. Yep, front wheel where the back wheel was supposed to be. Rode them about 60 seconds, decided I could let go of the wall and down I went. No damage to man or machine. Tried again the right way and it took about ten minutes before I was riding without holding onto the wall. I have nothing to compare these to but was surprised at how much resistance there is. It takes some effort and after practicing for a while, stopping a million times, etc., I was able to get in two solid sessions, one each on the fixed gear and road bike. Definitely going to be some good workouts. They magnify every fault and really reward smoothness. Dead spots in the pedal stroke stand out, especially on the fixed gear and I've a newfound respect for the guys on youtube who make it look easy. -Tim- |
^Totally how it is. Usually this time of year I've started doing one-legged pedaling workouts on the rollers with the lazy foot wedged in the frame triangle. No chain slack allowed. That's meant to be aspirational. This year though I'm going to keep on with the once-a-week long FastPedal interval and not switch it to OLP until I start my more climbing-heavy riding in the spring. On my set, I FastPedal in my 39 X 25 but my set probably has less resistance than yours. OTOH I'm probably weaker.
I've fallen a few times. I usually get a pedal cut on my calf. |
Originally Posted by vze23c3q
(Post 19288769)
Send 'em back and get Kreitlers...you will not be disappointed.
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
(Post 19296440)
...
They magnify every fault and really reward smoothness. Dead spots in the pedal stroke stand out, especially on the fixed gear and I've a newfound respect for the guys on youtube who make it look easy. -Tim- Thing is that was what riding was all about in 70s/80s/90s. Just that the stupid kill joy power meters showed us a stomping produces more power. |
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
(Post 19296693)
OTOH I'm probably weaker.
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Originally Posted by Doge
(Post 19296776)
Tim,
Thing is that was what riding was all about in 70s/80s/90s. Just that the stupid kill joy power meters showed us a stomping produces more power. |
So, you in the doorway or not?
:roflmao2: |
Originally Posted by UnfilteredDregs
(Post 19297015)
So, you in the doorway or not?
:roflmao2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gymxlza3iz...s.005.jpg?dl=1 |
1 Attachment(s)
I got the new roller set a few days ago, & fared better than TimothyH in shipping- the nuts holding front feet had vibrated off and were lost,
but the replacements cost $.50 so NBD. First real ride today- GCN 1 hr workout running through the gears. The report: quieter, espec. at high rpms, larger, heavy drums spin smoothly, & extra width (18") makes for more relaxed riding while watching the TV, compared to the Performance/Travel Track set. |
I'm upgrading to the TruTrainers Rollers shortly. I tried them and the eMotion. I don't see the point of the eMotion, it allows for slop via the moving frame... yeah, you can play the "game" of not allowing the frame to move but the coasting is far superior on the TT's. You can easily stand on the TruTrainers, and they still demand that you hold a really tight line. I don't want forgiveness in the rollers, that's what the eMotions do, and it defeats the purpose of rollers IMO. Good luck, and enjoy. |
Originally Posted by UnfilteredDregs
(Post 19301188)
That works.. :thumb:
I'm upgrading to the TruTrainers Rollers shortly. I tried them and the eMotion. I don't see the point of the eMotion, it allows for slop via the moving frame... yeah, you can play the "game" of not allowing the frame to move but the coasting is far superior on the TT's. You can easily stand on the TruTrainers, and they still demand that you hold a really tight line. I don't want forgiveness in the rollers, that's what the eMotions do, and it defeats the purpose of rollers IMO. Good luck, and enjoy. Thanks. Where are you able to try rollers? Is there a showroom or LBS with them on display near you? Third time on last night - 3 by 15 minutes alternating between fixed gear (48-16), road bike and then fixed again. Concentrated on smooth pedaling but pushed the cadence as high as I could for the last two minutes of each session. Got a little bouncy at high RPM. Progressive resistance seems to work well as I was only able to push as fast on the rollers as I am on the road. -Tim- |
Very amusing:
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
(Post 19301276)
Thanks.
Where are you able to try rollers? Is there a showroom or LBS with them on display near you? Third time on last night - 3 by 15 minutes alternating between fixed gear (48-16), road bike and then fixed again. Concentrated on smooth pedaling but pushed the cadence as high as I could for the last two minutes of each session. Got a little bouncy at high RPM. Progressive resistance seems to work well as I was only able to push as fast on the rollers as I am on the road. -Tim- |
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
(Post 19301913)
C'mon, drop your heels, roll your pelvis forward, flatten your back, and get rid of all that upper body movement! Nice dismount though. I kept the sound turned off.
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
(Post 19301913)
C'mon, drop your heels, roll your pelvis forward, flatten your back, and get rid of all that upper body movement!
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
(Post 19301913)
C'mon, drop your heels, roll your pelvis forward, flatten your back, and get rid of all that upper body movement! Nice dismount though. I kept the sound turned off.
The sound was the best part with her Australien accent and explaining her sensations! |
Originally Posted by VNA
(Post 19302456)
Critical are we?
The sound was the best part with her Australien accent and explaining her sensations! |
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
(Post 19302500)
I'll certainly admit to being serious about cycling. I realize that she didn't ask for my criticism and so it's totally uncalled for but I thought maybe someone could get some value from it. Plus I almost never watch videos with the sound on because it bothers others.
1. Slow cadence trying to keep the heart rate low 2. faster cadence on the road bike after about 30 minutes riding. 3. Fast on the fixed gear after close to an hour of riding. Pretty wiped out at this point. |
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
(Post 19301913)
C'mon, drop your heels, roll your pelvis forward, flatten your back, and get rid of all that upper body movement! Nice dismount though. I kept the sound turned off.
Originally Posted by cycledogg
(Post 19302019)
Yeah, she definitely needs more time on rollers. Her pedal form was very choppy.
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
(Post 19301276)
Thanks.
Where are you able to try rollers? Is there a showroom or LBS with them on display near you? Third time on last night - 3 by 15 minutes alternating between fixed gear (48-16), road bike and then fixed again. Concentrated on smooth pedaling but pushed the cadence as high as I could for the last two minutes of each session. Got a little bouncy at high RPM. Progressive resistance seems to work well as I was only able to push as fast on the rollers as I am on the road. -Tim- You're definitely going to get bouncy at high RPM. Holding a good, still form at high RPM is a good place to be... I do the slow game as well...I'll mess around for say...10-20 minutes below 10mph, trying to go as slow as possible. It's nice not to have a cadence drum to swap out with the resistance drum. If you want to just work on form, it's great because it makes the rollers less forgiving. That's why I bought the inertia drum, besides the coasting I use the drum that was swapped out to accommodate it as a swap for the resistance and I just drop it in depending on what I feel like doing. |
Originally Posted by cycledogg
(Post 19302019)
Yeah, she definitely needs more time on rollers. Her pedal form was very choppy.
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
(Post 19302723)
I appreciated the advice, even if it wasn't meant for me, and would welcome critique.
1. Slow cadence trying to keep the heart rate low 2. faster cadence on the road bike after about 30 minutes riding. 3. Fast on the fixed gear after close to an hour of riding. Pretty wiped out at this point. |
Originally Posted by TimothyH
(Post 19302723)
I appreciated the advice, even if it wasn't meant for me, and would welcome critique.
1. Slow cadence trying to keep the heart rate low 2. faster cadence on the road bike after about 30 minutes riding. 3. Fast on the fixed gear after close to an hour of riding. Pretty wiped out at this point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEidzsXrYIU My guess on the movement is that you need to work more on moving the pedals with your legs only and very possibly saddle height might play into this. Another exercise: put your geared bike into a really big gear, so that you're out of zone 2 at a 50-55 cadence. Probably will take your 53 X 11 or thereabouts or maybe you can't even get that low a cadence - depends on the resistance. Anywhere under 70 is good. Big reason for having the resistance. Try to pedal only with your legs and without prying on the bars. No more than 10 minute intervals doing this. I never get tired of watching this video: |
Originally Posted by TimothyH
(Post 19302723)
I appreciated the advice, even if it wasn't meant for me, and would welcome critique.
1. Slow cadence trying to keep the heart rate low 2. faster cadence on the road bike after about 30 minutes riding. 3. Fast on the fixed gear after close to an hour of riding. Pretty wiped out at this point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEidzsXrYIU Maintain your maximum zone 2 cadence for between 15 and 45 minutes, no break. The no break is very important. Then finish with another 15' of zone 1 to let your legs go down. Or maintain that high cadence until your legs start really hurting or you see your HR ramping up even though your cadence is steady. When one is in good condition, this is an excellent recovery ride, as it stresses and energizes the legs without stressing the aerobic system. Training stress score will be fairly low, maybe 50 or less. I do this workout once a week for most of the year. Sometimes in the spring, I'll substitute the one-legged pedaling. |
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[MENTION=78894]Carbonfiberboy[/MENTION], I can't tell you how much I appreciate that you took the time to type that up. You have a lot of insight.
I'm very stiff and have to work at flexibility. I've not done that recently and it is to my shame. That is part of what you are seeing. Going to reread what you typed several times... |
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