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Do I need a gravel bike?

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Do I need a gravel bike?

Old 01-10-17, 10:55 PM
  #151  
Dave Cutter
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I had mentioned to a friend that I had just purchased a Gravel Bike (I may have also said Gravel Grinder). He asked "what is a Gravel Bike?"

I said: It's a road bike... designed to be durable enough to handle limestone paths, dirt or gravel roads, or any road condition my normal road bikes might be considered too fragile to handle well. I added that: My Gravel bike has fatter, slightly knobby tires, and disc brakes.

My explanation is in no way a definition of the term. But since gravel cycling isn't a sanctioned sport. And there is no governing body empowered to regulate design limitations. Simple little explanations might be as good as we get.
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Old 01-11-17, 08:26 AM
  #152  
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I love how people calmly accept and debate passionately the often razor thin differences between race/aero/endurance road bikes or trail/enduro/XC MTBs, but as soon as you start bringing up the comparatively major difference between cross/gravel/road, some people get all huffy and start rolling their eyes... I don't think any of these people actually ride endurance gravel so they have no frame of reference.
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Old 01-11-17, 08:51 AM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
I love how people calmly accept and debate passionately the often razor thin differences between race/aero/endurance road bikes or trail/enduro/XC MTBs, but as soon as you start bringing up the comparatively major difference between cross/gravel/road, some people get all huffy and start rolling their eyes... I don't think any of these people actually ride endurance gravel so they have no frame of reference.
Agreed!

One of the reasons is because gravel bikes evolved from CX bikes.... but at this point, they are two very different type of bikes for two very different purposes
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Old 01-11-17, 11:03 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
I love how people calmly accept and debate passionately the often razor thin differences between race/aero/endurance road bikes or trail/enduro/XC MTBs, but as soon as you start bringing up the comparatively major difference between cross/gravel/road, some people get all huffy and start rolling their eyes... I don't think any of these people actually ride endurance gravel so they have no frame of reference.


Well I've raced cross, and gravel, and understand the differences between what's currently marketed as a gravel endurance bike, and a traditional cross bike, own a cross bike, and am currently buying a gravel tandem.


And the differences are largely overblown when people start making statements like "a cross bike is a completely different animal than a gravel bike", "the only similarity is they both have two wheels", "People ride unicycles".


Taking your road bike analogy, Race, Aero, and Endurance are all marketing subsets of Road Bikes. Each of these three bikes can be used quite effectively for racing, centuries, club rides or tooling around the neighborhood.


Depending on your intended uses, and what you prioritize one may be more suitable to you than another, but they all work, and not many people would describe a Domain as a completely different animal from a Madone, or an S5 as completely different from an R5.


Similarly a cross bike, and a gravel bike are both bikes intended for riding off pavement, other than technical single track. Both work for cross, gravel races, or just riding down a country dirt road. Depending on how you want to use it, one may be more suitable than the other.
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Old 01-11-17, 11:07 AM
  #155  
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I'll also add, I think its silly to get hung up on titles. Whether a bike is marketed as a cyclocross, cross country, gravel endurance, or touring really shouldn't matter.


Whether it has the braze ons you need for your intended use, the gearing you need, enough tire clearance for the tires you need, want, how easy it is to carry (if cyclocross is one of your intended uses) and how it rides over the type of terrain you're going to use it on, are all more important than what tag a marketer puts on the bike.
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Old 01-11-17, 11:28 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
The point you made was a cyclocross bike would not be the tool of choice for Dirty Kanza, akin to choosing to ride a unicycle.

My post directly responded to your posts showing that the greatest female gravel grinder of all time chose to use a cyclocross bike for Dirty Kanza.

Go ahead and give a flip response when you can't respond substantively to the argument.
You're the guy who thinks disc brakes add a minimum of 3 lbs to a bike, right?
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Old 01-11-17, 11:30 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
You're the guy who thinks disc brakes add a minimum of 3 lbs to a bike, right?


No, one to two pounds, and if you compare published weights for similar bikes from the same manufacturer that bears out.


Take the Trek Domaine for example SLR7 has a published weight of 16.5 pounds.


SLR7 Disc, similarly equipped but disc instead of calipers has a published weight of 18.3 punds for 1.8 pound difference.


I'm sure you can find other examples where the difference is more and some possibly where its a bit less.


But the additional weight to the whole system, forks, stays, spokes etc. add up.


Now that I've refuted your attempt at an ad hominem attack, your style of argument is neither forceful, informative or becoming to you.


Whether discs add weight to a bike, and whether I believe that is irrelevant to this thread, and the point I made in it.

Rather than refute my point to which you take issue, you attack me personally, attempting to impune my credibility by raising an entirely unrelated point.


Such Ad hominem attacks are a common logical fallacy, and usually resorted to when you can't attack the actual argument logically.


And before you say me calling you out on this is itself an adhominem, the distinction is that my post actually addresses your argument and its logical fallacy, rather than attempt to discredit your credibility, which you appear to be handling quite well yourself.
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Old 01-11-17, 12:39 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Whether it has the braze ons you need for your intended use, the gearing you need, enough tire clearance for the tires you need, want, how easy it is to carry (if cyclocross is one of your intended uses) and how it rides over the type of terrain you're going to use it on, are all more important than what tag a marketer puts on the bike.
As an attempt to interject some reason into this discussion, and I use that term loosely, I do think Merlin is getting at some salient questions here.

We seem to be debating two different things here. One is: are there real differences between bikes categorized by a manufacturer as CX versus those marked gravel/adventure/all-road? The other is: do any of these differences matter in how the bike is used to prevent it from being used for something other than the designated intended use?

To the first question, we've established the question is a resounding yes. Bikes sold as "CX" usually differ from bikes sold as "gravel" in all the ways listed by Merlin. I would add geometry, as discussed up thread, as well. We have also seen, however, bikes marked as "CX" start moving away from pure race machines to include many of the features that define a "gravel" bike. This only adds to the confusion.

On the second question, to myself and many people responding to this thread, these differences do impact our ability to use the bike as we'd like. But, of course, it all depends on how you plan to use the bike so coming up with broad generalities is impossible. Maybe that is why the OP asked, rather smartly, "do I need a gravel bike?"

In my case, I initially got a CX bike for gravel riding, and while it was fine for the recreational, purely gravel rides I was doing, my use started to evolve. I began entering "ultra-cross" races that combine road, dirt, gravel and single track; I started linking up my own gravel rides with gnarlier terrain. At that point, it became clear that neither the tighter tire clearance nor twitchy geometry of a CX race bike were as well adapted to my use case as dedicated gravel bike that could fit 40+ and had slacker angles. Was I entirely unable to ride the way I wanted to on a CX bike? No. Will I be better suited by a gravel bike? Yes.

In short, differences exist between bike segments, but the more categories of bikes get invented the smaller those differences are. That doesn't mean they don't matter.

Now, back to your regularly programmed free-for-all...
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Old 01-11-17, 01:40 PM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Well I've raced cross, and gravel, and understand the differences between what's currently marketed as a gravel endurance bike, and a traditional cross bike, own a cross bike, and am currently buying a gravel tandem.


And the differences are largely overblown when people start making statements like "a cross bike is a completely different animal than a gravel bike", "the only similarity is they both have two wheels", "People ride unicycles".

Similarly a cross bike, and a gravel bike are both bikes intended for riding off pavement, other than technical single track. Both work for cross, gravel races, or just riding down a country dirt road. Depending on how you want to use it, one may be more suitable than the other.
Please note I stipulated all of this in my previous post.


Taking your road bike analogy, Race, Aero, and Endurance are all marketing subsets of Road Bikes. Each of these three bikes can be used quite effectively for racing, centuries, club rides or tooling around the neighborhood.

Depending on your intended uses, and what you prioritize one may be more suitable to you than another, but they all work, and not many people would describe a Domain as a completely different animal from a Madone, or an S5 as completely different from an R5.
You obviously don't spend a lot of time on RBR or WeightWeenies. To talk to some of them, the difference between a Venge and a Tarmac is night and day. The same is true of professional road bike reviewers. They split hairs and make mountains out of molehills.
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Old 01-11-17, 02:38 PM
  #160  
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Just because you don't care or feel the differences doesn't mean the differences are not there or are not important for others. It is not splitting hair, nor purely marketing ploy.
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Old 01-13-17, 05:12 PM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
I'll also add, I think its silly to get hung up on titles. Whether a bike is marketed as a cyclocross, cross country, gravel endurance, or touring really shouldn't matter.


Whether it has the braze ons you need for your intended use, the gearing you need, enough tire clearance for the tires you need, want, how easy it is to carry (if cyclocross is one of your intended uses) and how it rides over the type of terrain you're going to use it on, are all more important than what tag a marketer puts on the bike.
Unfortunately some participants do not understand what a forum is?
How about exchanging views that differ from others without getting aggressive or insulting?
Nothing is cast in stone--every one has the right to have their own opinion and be respected!
As far as I am concerned any one who becomes aggressive or insulting loose any argument--if there is one!
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Old 01-14-17, 11:13 AM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by VNA View Post
Unfortunately some participants do not understand what a forum is?
How about exchanging views that differ from others without getting aggressive or insulting?
Nothing is cast in stone--every one has the right to have their own opinion and be respected!
As far as I am concerned any one who becomes aggressive or insulting loose any argument--if there is one!
LOL... you could cut and paste your paragraph pretty much to any thread on any forum, and it probably won't make any difference
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Old 01-14-17, 11:52 AM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by dalava View Post
LOL... you could cut and paste your paragraph pretty much to any thread on any forum, and it probably won't make any difference
Moreover, his hypocrisy is pretty comical. He doesn't think his obvious insinuations are insulting or disrespectful, yet as soon as someone uses the word "you," it's over the line, no matter the context.
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Old 01-14-17, 04:12 PM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Moreover, his hypocrisy is pretty comical. He doesn't think his obvious insinuations are insulting or disrespectful, yet as soon as someone uses the word "you," it's over the line, no matter the context.
Can't help it: "J'accuse"

What was it about? Oh! yes those gravel bikes!

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Old 01-14-17, 06:26 PM
  #165  
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Lordy. No wonder roadies have a reputation. LOL.
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Old 01-15-17, 08:30 PM
  #166  
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Laughing at some of these responses. As a marketer myself, some of you are so serious about these so-called "campaigns"! You give us too much credit.

I just wanted to mention that I put my 32 mm Panaracer Gravelkings on the Plug 4 this weekend and encountered some muddy and icy areas here in Seattle (Lincoln Park in West Seattle). I'm really impressed with the Gravelkings — they are smooth on pavement and comfortable on dirt. Highly recommend if your riding includes all surfaces but skews more road than gravel.
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Old 01-16-17, 12:20 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Way overstated...
Looks like I missed the ****-storm.

lmao...

Anyhow, I guarantee that a 650b 40+mm wheeled endurance geo bike is a FAR more suitable ride for long distance gravel/dirt road riding versus CX.

There is a world of difference between a bike designed for a 32mm 700cc tire/wheel and a 40+mm platform.

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Old 01-16-17, 07:50 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by milacs View Post
Laughing at some of these responses. As a marketer myself, some of you are so serious about these so-called "campaigns"! You give us too much credit.

. . . .
Is it not all about "response rates" these days as it is a science with incredible precise results

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Old 01-22-17, 12:36 AM
  #169  
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I got in my first real ride on my Access, Old Turnpike today (I've been recovering from bronchus). And I like this bike.

The Taigra, dual front, rear 10 speed set... shifted smoothly. The bike... I think.. was very responsive. Those big 700X35 tires and full carbon fork made this the smoothest, cushiest ride I've ever had. The geometry of this bike is... very non-aggressive. I may end-up dropping the stem some. But then again... todays ride was very comfortable.

The heavy duty rear triangle/stays have what seems to be an extra wide stance. When test riding with platform pedals the heal of my shoe had tapped the rear stay on occasion. That had sort'a concerned me. But..... my toe had touched the front tire for that matter too even though the bike is plenty long enough. Todays ride with my clipless mountain bike pedals (and shoes) banished any concerns I had about the rear ends width.

One of my desires for this bike was winter riding. Although I hadn't been really up to it.... I did manage some in-snow cold weather short-test-rides earlier this month. The bike did good.
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Old 01-26-17, 01:31 PM
  #170  
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OP here. I just answered my question: YES! I do need a gravel bike.

Can't believe how much fun I already had with only 250 miles on this bike I finished building a few days ago. It's the most fun I had on a bike ever.
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Old 01-26-17, 01:36 PM
  #171  
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Nice rotors, @dalava.
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Old 01-26-17, 01:39 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by milacs View Post
Laughing at some of these responses. As a marketer myself, some of you are so serious about these so-called "campaigns"! You give us too much credit.

I just wanted to mention that I put my 32 mm Panaracer Gravelkings on the Plug 4 this weekend and encountered some muddy and icy areas here in Seattle (Lincoln Park in West Seattle). I'm really impressed with the Gravelkings — they are smooth on pavement and comfortable on dirt. Highly recommend if your riding includes all surfaces but skews more road than gravel.
Have you done Suiattle River Road, near Darrington? Tends to open early, I think the entire road was passable in Feb last year.
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Old 01-26-17, 01:53 PM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by dalava View Post


OP here. I just answered my question: YES! I do need a gravel bike.

Can't believe how much fun I already had with only 250 miles on this bike I finished building a few days ago. It's the most fun I had on a bike ever.

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