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My first go at road tubeless...inauspicious

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My first go at road tubeless...inauspicious

Old 01-03-17, 03:55 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post

One more downside of the tubeless compatible wheels was the rims had no spoke hole drillings, to make for a better seal. So if we ever need to replace a spoke nipple.. then what? Of course the provided nipples were custom hex-shaped, requiring a custom tool. Another PITA.

Easton Wheels just uses double threaded nipples. You thread the nipple into the rim, then the spoke into the nipple. It's actually very easy and much less of a hassle than removing the tire and rim strip.

I was quite impressed with that system.
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Old 01-03-17, 03:57 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Besides: if you need a bike to pick up groceries, or to park outside the pub, then tubed clinchers are the way to go. For high performance riding, tubulars are mandatory.
Very few people in the P/1/2 races I do use tubulars. Most everyone is on clinchers, usually GP4000s or the Specialized Cottons from what I can see.
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Old 01-03-17, 04:04 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
For high performance riding, tubulars are mandatory.
So if it ain't done with neutral wheel support or a team car, then it's not high performance. Got it.
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Old 01-03-17, 07:17 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
No, no, and no. My Maxxis tires go on with no extra effort. Neither did my Schwalbes. They maintain a seal because of the hook-shaped bead on the rim. Lastly, they are usually easier to install because there's no tube getting in the way.
I can mount amd remove standard clinchers on my HED rims without use of tools. Getting the tubeless Schwalbe Pro Ones on is a little harder but still no tolls. Removing the tubeless takes a bit more effort requiring a lever.
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Old 01-03-17, 07:56 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
All tubeless tire/rims combinations do fit tighter than standard tubed clinchers. They have to in order to maintain a seal. They are harder to install - this is basic knowledge.

Didn't know the Ultegra wheels were tubeless compatible before we got them; otherwise we wouldn't have - too much of a hassle installing tires, and especially removing them. Removing heavy-duty wire-bead tires on tubeless rims? Impossible.

Besides: if you need a bike to pick up groceries, or to park outside the pub, then tubed clinchers are the way to go. For high performance riding, tubulars are mandatory.

One more downside of the tubeless compatible wheels was the rims had no spoke hole drillings, to make for a better seal. So if we ever need to replace a spoke nipple.. then what? Of course the provided nipples were custom hex-shaped, requiring a custom tool. Another PITA.
There's quite a wide array of riding in between grocery shopping and high level racing for which clinchers are preferable. Most folks I know who race are on carbon aero wheels (Zipp 404 e.g) but are running clinchers with latex tubes. Tubulars are just not practical for most amateur racing applications. But I dont race so thats besides the point.

I really dont know yet whether tubeless offers me an upgrade over riding standard clinchers. I will get improved rolling resistance over my clinchers with butyl tubes, according bicyclerollingresistance.com, but I would get tne same improvement with latex tubes. So flats and ride quality would be the two areas tubeless would offer benefit. We'll see.

HED rims do have spoke holes and use standard nipples. I won't buy factory built wheels like Ultegra. Handbuilt wheels -- either by me or by a pro -- offer wider options and assurance that I know what I am getting.

I knew the HED rims were tubeless when I got em but thats not why I got them. I wanted the wider profile for smoother ride and lower rolling resistance, intending to ride clinchers. They deliver on both fronts even with standard tubed clinchers; a really spectacular riding rim. I got the tubeless tires to try em out to see if the fewer flats and better ride quality they purportedly deliver will make the extra effort to install worth the effort. Time will tell, and I'll either stick with them or go back to clinchers.
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Old 01-03-17, 08:12 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by DOS View Post
Removing the tubeless takes a bit more effort requiring a lever.
Two plastic levers and a little chain lube make it a cinch. First place one lever under the bead, put a little chain lube on the rim and bead, place the second lever next to the first and slide. I carry a small bottle of NFS in my tool roll.
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Old 01-03-17, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by UnfilteredDregs View Post
Two plastic levers and a little chain lube make it a cinch. First place one lever under the bead, put a little chain lube on the rim and bead, place the second lever next to the first and slide. I carry a small bottle of NFS in my tool roll.
In a pinch, spit is surprisingly slippery too.
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Old 01-03-17, 08:33 PM
  #83  
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My question is what about when the tire gets a tiny bit worn out?

In my younger slightly less mature days, I used to head out for a long trip without checking my tire pressure. This would result in a fairly new tire being worn out pretty fast. Or Id brake so hard down hill that I'd wear a spot right through the casing, heck once I could actually see the tube.

With tubless does it take being a little more on the ball with maintenance? Do you need to replaces them ASAP all the time? They just sound slightly less forgiving to me.
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Old 01-03-17, 09:34 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
In a pinch, spit is surprisingly slippery too.
Why yes, I bet it is!
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Old 01-03-17, 09:48 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
No, no, and no. My Maxxis tires go on with no extra effort. Neither did my Schwalbes. They maintain a seal because of the hook-shaped bead on the rim. Lastly, they are usually easier to install because there's no tube getting in the way.
I've used both Easton EA90 and Shimano Ultegra tubeless wheels. I used the Eastons as both a tubed and tubeless setup. I never felt like tires were more difficult to get on, tube or no tube. If anything, I was surprised how easily my first set of tubeless tires went on. I was thinking they would be tighter so it would be easier to get an air seal.
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Old 01-03-17, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cbrstar View Post
My question is what about when the tire gets a tiny bit worn out?

In my younger slightly less mature days, I used to head out for a long trip without checking my tire pressure. This would result in a fairly new tire being worn out pretty fast. Or Id brake so hard down hill that I'd wear a spot right through the casing, heck once I could actually see the tube.

With tubless does it take being a little more on the ball with maintenance? Do you need to replaces them ASAP all the time? They just sound slightly less forgiving to me.
I wore out a Hutchinson Fusion 5 pretty far. You can see it here. It didn't have any problem holding air.

Obviously, you shouldn't be riding your tires down that far, tubeless or not.
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Old 01-03-17, 09:57 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by cbrstar View Post
My question is what about when the tire gets a tiny bit worn out?

With tubeless does it take being a little more on the ball with maintenance? Do you need to replaces them ASAP all the time? They just sound slightly less forgiving to me.
I generally have to refresh sealant once during the life of a rear tire-- I'm getting 3,000-3,500 miles out of each 700x32 Maxxis Refuse @ ~1,000 miles a month, so I check/refresh the sealant every 6-8 weeks. Once a week or so I give them the once over to pick out anything that might be stuck in the carcass-- pieces of wire, thorns, glass, etc. You know, stuff that would have flatted a tubed tire.

Originally Posted by DXchulo View Post
I've used both Easton EA90 and Shimano Ultegra tubeless wheels. I used the Eastons as both a tubed and tubeless setup. I never felt like tires were more difficult to get on, tube or no tube. If anything, I was surprised how easily my first set of tubeless tires went on. I was thinking they would be tighter so it would be easier to get an air seal.
"Tubeless are harder to mount" is the most popular excuse bandied about by those who have mounted tubeless tires between zero and one time. The rest of us know it to be no more difficult than mounting a typical clincher. My rims are 23mm wide internal but quite shallow, which if anything should make fitting a tire more difficult... but it doesn't.
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Old 01-04-17, 02:07 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by DXchulo View Post
I wore out a Hutchinson Fusion 5 pretty far. You can see it here. It didn't have any problem holding air.

Obviously, you shouldn't be riding your tires down that far, tubeless or not.
Well that's pretty good! I never know why a tire can suddenly get like that but it's always when you're in the middle of no where, and it's a battle of stamina and wits just gotta make it to the next town.
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Old 01-11-17, 08:13 AM
  #89  
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I've been running tubeless on my fat bike for about a year without any flats. I've also been running tubeless on my gravel/cross bike for about eight months with no flats. I have 36mm Clement MSOs on the gravel bike which I run at 35-50 PSI depending on the day. I've run the fat tires as low as 4 psi without problems. The Clements are absolutely amazing on the gravel bike: fast rolling, tons of grip, incredible supple ride, terrific durability. I really wish Clement made tubeless road tires.

At this point I'm convinced of the benefit of tubeless, at least at lower PSIs. As I have a set of tubeless-ready Ultegra wheels, I want to give tubeless a try on my road bike. I can only fit 23s and MAYBE 25s on my road bike due to tight clearances. I'm surprised at the fairly terrible selection of tires available. I'm not a fan of Hutchinson tires as I've tried the Atom and really didn't like it.

I'm looking for feedback on:
Maxxis Padrone
Panaracer Race A Evo3
Schwalbe One
The various Bontrager offerings
...any other suggestions people have.

I'd love to fit something like a Compass but as I said, no room in the frame.

All of these options are fairly expensive so I don't want to experiment too much. I'm not racing and I prioritize puncture/cut resistance over a few grams of weight. This will be for 100% pavement riding. I weigh about 150 lbs and want to run around 75-80 psi. I have a compressor and I've done this before a few times so no issues with mounting.

Last edited by Hiro11; 01-11-17 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 01-11-17, 08:48 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
...any other suggestions people have.

Specialized Roubaix. My frame builder recommended them. Feel really zippy.
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Old 01-11-17, 09:18 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Specialized Roubaix. My frame builder recommended them. Feel really zippy.
$90 a tire. Ouch.
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Old 01-11-17, 09:32 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
I've been running tubeless on my fat bike for about a year without any flats. I've also been running tubeless on my gravel/cross bike for about eight months with no flats. I have 36mm Clement MSOs on the gravel bike which I run at 35-50 PSI depending on the day. I've run the fat tires as low as 4 psi without problems. The Clements are absolutely amazing on the gravel bike: fast rolling, tons of grip, incredible supple ride, terrific durability. I really wish Clement made tubeless road tires.

At this point I'm convinced of the benefit of tubeless, at least at lower PSIs. As I have a set of tubeless-ready Ultegra wheels, I want to give tubeless a try on my road bike. I can only fit 23s and MAYBE 25s on my road bike due to tight clearances. I'm surprised at the fairly terrible selection of tires available. I'm not a fan of Hutchinson tires as I've tried the Atom and really didn't like it.

I'm looking for feedback on:
Maxxis Padrone
Panaracer Race A Evo3
Schwalbe One
The various Bontrager offerings
...any other suggestions people have.

I'd love to fit something like a Compass but as I said, no room in the frame.

All of these options are fairly expensive so I don't want to experiment too much. I'm not racing and I prioritize puncture/cut resistance over a few grams of weight. This will be for 100% pavement riding. I weigh about 150 lbs and want to run around 75-80 psi. I have a compressor and I've done this before a few times so no issues with mounting.
Clement makes a 32c tubeless tire...it's kind of a road/adventure tire...
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=80182

I used the Clement's on my Mr. Pink with good results. Only reason I'm swapping them out is because the new Dura Ace I put on the bike can't shift the FD with the bigger tires in the way.

I'd also recommend the Schwalbe Pro1, that's what I'm currently using on my cannondale with a lot of success.

Vittoria makes a tubeless Corsa G now that only weighs 205g - I'm curious to try them out next time I need tires.
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Old 01-11-17, 09:42 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by SpeshulEd View Post
Clement makes a 32c tubeless tire...it's kind of a road/adventure tire...
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=80182

I used the Clement's on my Mr. Pink with good results. Only reason I'm swapping them out is because the new Dura Ace I put on the bike can't shift the FD with the bigger tires in the way.
As I mentioned, I don't have room for anything more than a 23.

I'd also recommend the Schwalbe Pro1, that's what I'm currently using on my cannondale with a lot of success.
I believe many people have had bad experiences with durability on this tire, what has your experience been?

Vittoria makes a tubeless Corsa G now that only weighs 205g - I'm curious to try them out next time I need tires.
Tough to source domestically but a very good idea, I'll take a look.
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Old 01-11-17, 09:54 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
As I mentioned, I don't have room for anything more than a 23.

I believe many people have had bad experiences with durability on this tire, what has your experience been?

Tough to source domestically but a very good idea, I'll take a look.
Haha, it's still early...I read 23 as 32 and was thinking that it was odd that you said you could fit a 32 but a 25 would be tight. Ignore my comment, however, if you ever do have something you could throw 32s on, I'd recommend those Clements.

I love the Pro1s, however, haven't ridden any other options out there. I had a pair of Schwalbe Ultremos and really enjoyed them, so I gave the Pro1s a shot. I usually run them a bit lower than I would with tubes, but when I started trying really low pressures with them, I felt like I was bottoming out on a few hard bumps. That said, the Pro1s have come down dramatically in cost, so I'd definitely look at those over the normal Schwalbe Ones.

(I should also note, I'm running the Pro1s on non tubeless ENVE rims without issue.)

I'm hoping the Vittorias will be more available by the time I need tires again, probably this summer/fall...fingers crossed.
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Old 01-11-17, 12:18 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by UnfilteredDregs View Post
I carry a small bottle of NFS in my tool roll.

[thread drift] I assume you're referring to NixFrixShun lube. If so, how do you like it? How does it compare to Rock n' Roll (if you've used it)? Thanks![/thread drift]
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Old 01-11-17, 12:34 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
I'm looking for feedback on:
Maxxis Padrone
Panaracer Race A Evo3
Schwalbe One
The various Bontrager offerings
...any other suggestions people have.

I'd love to fit something like a Compass but as I said, no room in the frame.

All of these options are fairly expensive so I don't want to experiment too much. I'm not racing and I prioritize puncture/cut resistance over a few grams of weight. This will be for 100% pavement riding. I weigh about 150 lbs and want to run around 75-80 psi. I have a compressor and I've done this before a few times so no issues with mounting.

I have run Bontrager R2 tubeless, R3 tubeless, and Scwalbe Pro One tubeless in 23 & 25.


The R3s were an improvement in ride quality over the R2s. I did have one R3 that punctured, and somehow the sealant sealed the puncture at the tread, but didn't seal the puncture at the tire lining, so I ended up with a massive sealant bubble -- Trek replaced this tire under warranty. Eventually I punctured and lost so much air I had to pull over to inflate . . . when I did, the CO2 froze the valve stem and the valve stem sheared off. The tire was near the end of its life anyways, so that's when I switched to Pro One's.


Pro One's in 23 were a noticeable improvement in ride quality over the R3s. I'd have to say they're more puncture resistant as well; I never once had to pull over an add air (still running Bontrager TLR sealant). I got about 2500 miles out of my rear tire. I decided to move to 25s and replaced both tires even though the front showed little to no wear, even after 2500 miles. I'm ~190, and I rode these at 85F/90R.


Pro Ones in 25 are awesome. Only slightly wider and ever-so-slightly taller than the 23s. I've ridden these down to 70F/75R in testing . . . I think that was a bit low for my weight as I could feel they weren't rolling as fast vs. 80F/85R.


Comparing R3s vs. Pro One's, it's a no-brainer: Pro One's all the way. Faster tire, more supple, better puncture resistance, and MUCH lower cost: Schwalbe Pro One $38.99


I just purchased 3 of these to qualify for free shipping. Got them to my door in a week for less than what I paid for two Pro One's from Amazon.
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Old 01-11-17, 05:41 PM
  #97  
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You may not want Hutchinson, which is understandable (Fusion 5s are garbage, too) but I'm running Hutchinson Intensive tires right now and they are very durable. No flats so far and I think it will get 3,000 miles on the rear. I have 25s, but they're narrow for a 25 and would probably fit.
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Old 01-12-17, 03:18 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
And while it's impossible to prove that something isn't,
I know that this is a tubeless thread, not a theoretical math thread, but I have to disagree.
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