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Roadies Pile up vs standing Policeman on a motorbike!!

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Roadies Pile up vs standing Policeman on a motorbike!!

Old 01-20-17, 08:52 AM
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Roadies Pile up vs standing Policeman on a motorbike!!

Just gross:

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Old 01-20-17, 08:59 AM
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Couple things wrong here. How many views do you need before you start making money?
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Old 01-20-17, 09:03 AM
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That's an old clip MAY 2016. Red Hook Crit in Brooklyn.
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Old 01-20-17, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot
Couple things wrong here. How many views do you need before you start making money?
not sure, hope to find out (?) hahah

pretty sure embebbed videos don't get nothing, same as such short videos, anyhow, if this thread does not belong here / has a couple of things wrong, I'm sorry and hopefully a mod can delete it.

Thanks for your help and sorry if I did something wrong.

Have a nice day!
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Old 01-20-17, 09:19 AM
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I don't know why people find these types of video's interesting.

Morbid fascination with the macabre or a celebration of death.
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Old 01-20-17, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
I don't know why people find these types of video's interesting.

Morbid fascination with the macabre or a celebration of death.
100% disagree, because firstly no one died, and secondly the entire wreck was the fault of the guys on the bikes. An equivalent would be the entire field at a Cup race piling into the pace car... which just doesn't happen. It's not like that motorcycle drove in off the street and started mowing people down. Those guys "raced" head down right into the back of it. Mind you, that race hadn't even begun yet (if memory serves) they were sprinting for the start.
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Old 01-20-17, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope
100% disagree, because firstly no one died, and secondly the entire wreck was the fault of the guys on the bikes. An equivalent would be the entire field at a Cup race piling into the pace car... which just doesn't happen. It's not like that motorcycle drove in off the street and started mowing people down. Those guys "raced" head down right into the back of it. Mind you, that race hadn't even begun yet (if memory serves) they were sprinting for the start.
Because during a race the most logical place for the motorcycle is the center of the raceway with a large group of racers barreling down on that position. Pace car is a bad example they don't just stop in the middle of the track.
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Old 01-20-17, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope
100% disagree, because firstly no one died, and secondly the entire wreck was the fault of the guys on the bikes. An equivalent would be the entire field at a Cup race piling into the pace car... which just doesn't happen. It's not like that motorcycle drove in off the street and started mowing people down. Those guys "raced" head down right into the back of it. Mind you, that race hadn't even begun yet (if memory serves) they were sprinting for the start.
And I 100% disagree with your take. No way the guys in the back had a chance. The moto is stalled in a very narrow section of the course, and the race is on full gas. The first guys in the pack see it and avoid it, but the guys further back only have a chance to see the stopped moto a fraction of a second before they're on it.

Additionally, you're conditioned doing crits on closed courses to expect the absence of obstructing vehicles, other than other rider. No one expects a motorcycle to be stopped dead in the middle of the course. I've done 100s of crits and never seen a motorcycle stopped dead on the course.

And your analogy to a pace car in an automobile race breaks down. The Moto in a crit isn't there as a pace vehicle, its there to make sure the course is clear for the racers, and to officiate rules violations.

And its not like the moto was getting in front of the pack and slowing them down; he was stopped dead in a terrible position.

To play out your pace car analogy, this would be like the pace car suddenly pulled on to the track immediately in front of the field and came to dead stop. Lets see how well that would work out.
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Old 01-20-17, 10:07 AM
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Take it with a grain of salt as I am a committed non-racer: I have never raced a bicycle, and it is overwhelmingly likely that I never will. But answer this: did the bicycles hit the motorcycle, or the other way around? It's just like dodging any other obstacle on a course. If a few guys had gotten tangled up right there and the whole field had plowed into them, would people view it any differently? The motorcycle had a mechanical failure and stopped. These things happen. Assuming that the course ahead of you is wide open is how you end up in a pile of bicycles.
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Old 01-20-17, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope
Take it with a grain of salt as I am a committed non-racer: I have never raced a bicycle, and it is overwhelmingly likely that I never will. But answer this: did the bicycles hit the motorcycle, or the other way around? It's just like dodging any other obstacle on a course. If a few guys had gotten tangled up right there and the whole field had plowed into them, would people view it any differently? The motorcycle had a mechanical failure and stopped. These things happen. Assuming that the course ahead of you is wide open is how you end up in a pile of bicycles.
You really don't understand. If you're 10 back in that field, your ability to see up the road is very limited, so the guys that actually hit into the moto had almost zero chance.

You're also in a situation where if you touch brakes, you're 1) going to lose 20 places or more, and 2)you're likely to cause a wreck.

Crits are raced on closed courses, its natural to assume there are not going to be vehicular obstacles, and if you ride with such caution that you can avoid the vanishingly rare stopped vehicle, you're not going to be competitive, and you're going to be a danger to the field.

You put a field of pro tour level riders in that situation, and I doubt the outcome would have been different
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Old 01-20-17, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
You really don't understand. If you're 10 back in that field, your ability to see up the road is very limited, so the guys that actually hit into the moto had almost zero chance.

You're also in a situation where if you touch brakes, you're 1) going to lose 20 places or more, and 2)you're likely to cause a wreck.

Crits are raced on closed courses, its natural to assume there are not going to be vehicular obstacles, and if you ride with such caution that you can avoid the vanishingly rare stopped vehicle, you're not going to be competitive, and you're going to be a danger to the field.

You put a field of pro tour level riders in that situation, and I doubt the outcome would have been different
Add to that the fact there were no brakes on any of these bikes.
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Old 01-20-17, 10:52 AM
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RHC is fixed gear, drop bars, and no brakes.
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Old 01-20-17, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by TenSpeedV2
RHC is fixed gear, drop bars, and no brakes.

That is its own level of insanity.
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Old 01-20-17, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
That is its own level of insanity.
It's not that you can't stop, you just have to rely on your ability to skid. Velodrome races are the same. No brakes, drops only.
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Old 01-20-17, 11:47 AM
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Do we need proof that tailgating, especially at speed is highly risky? If so, there ya go.
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Old 01-20-17, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TenSpeedV2
RHC is fixed gear, drop bars, and no brakes.
What could possible go wrong?!?!?!
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Old 01-20-17, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by TenSpeedV2
It's not that you can't stop, you just have to rely on your ability to skid. Velodrome races are the same. No brakes, drops only.
Skidding doesn't give anywhere near the same amount of stopping power or control. Not that presence or lack of brakes would make much difference here.

Dynamics of this race look very different than velodrome.
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Old 01-20-17, 01:38 PM
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In any case ... anyone who watches cycling has seen numerous pileups when two riders cross wheels and ten more hit them ... it's not that they are stupid, it is that in the peloton you can only see a couple riders right ion front of you, and if you turn or brake to avoid and obstacle ahead, you simply cause a secondary crash along with the one you are trying to avoid ahead.
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Old 01-20-17, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope
Take it with a grain of salt as I am a committed non-racer: I have never raced a bicycle, and it is overwhelmingly likely that I never will. But answer this: did the bicycles hit the motorcycle, or the other way around? It's just like dodging any other obstacle on a course. If a few guys had gotten tangled up right there and the whole field had plowed into them, would people view it any differently? The motorcycle had a mechanical failure and stopped. These things happen. Assuming that the course ahead of you is wide open is how you end up in a pile of bicycles.
Racing is different. The rules are not like that on the road. There is an assumption of like equipment. Brakes are not allowed on the track for this reason (among others). This is also part of the argument about disc brakes in a pack where, again unlike the road riders are inches from each other. If one brake type works significantly better than another, there will be pileups more often than not.

Pretty much the same in pack car racing too.
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Old 01-20-17, 05:23 PM
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No one skids on velodromes. And the lack of brakes and obstacles makes track racing safer than road racing. This pileup was caused by the stalled moto, full stop. A similar cluster occurred at a NRC crit (Tulsa? Athens?) last season. I'm sure someone can pull up the youtube of that too.
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Old 01-20-17, 07:05 PM
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A few years back IndyCar had a safety vehicle racing the wrong way down the track trying tot reach a turn-off while the entire field took the green and was bearing down at 180 mph.

That would have been a pile-up.
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Old 01-21-17, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by TenSpeedV2
It's not that you can't stop, you just have to rely on your ability to skid. Velodrome races are the same. No brakes, drops only.
But a race on a velodrome is a different environment. Admittedly, I've never raced track, but your typical track doesn't involve huge packs, doesn't have turns that need to be slowed for and accelerate out of, doesn't have pinch points, and doesn't have motorcycles stalled in the course. (even in a motor paced event, a stalled derny could just roll off into the infield.

Also, track racing has a whole set of rules and protocols to allow racing fixed gear bikes in relative safety.

I've got to think a fixed gear crit with a large pack is much more accident prone, than track racing on a velodrome, with all the riders having gone through training in track riding.
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Old 01-21-17, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
But a race on a velodrome is a different environment. Admittedly, I've never raced track, but your typical track doesn't involve huge packs, doesn't have turns that need to be slowed for and accelerate out of, doesn't have pinch points, and doesn't have motorcycles stalled in the course. (even in a motor paced event, a stalled derny could just roll off into the infield.

Also, track racing has a whole set of rules and protocols to allow racing fixed gear bikes in relative safety.

I've got to think a fixed gear crit with a large pack is much more accident prone, than track racing on a velodrome, with all the riders having gone through training in track riding.
This is part of the draw. Adrenaline already pumping from a race, and then you add this factor in. Sometimes done at night to add even more uncertainty to it. Not like a typical road race at all.
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Old 01-21-17, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
But a race on a velodrome is a different environment. Admittedly, I've never raced track, but your typical track doesn't involve huge packs, doesn't have turns that need to be slowed for and accelerate out of, doesn't have pinch points, and doesn't have motorcycles stalled in the course. (even in a motor paced event, a stalled derny could just roll off into the infield.

Also, track racing has a whole set of rules and protocols to allow racing fixed gear bikes in relative safety.

I've got to think a fixed gear crit with a large pack is much more accident prone, than track racing on a velodrome, with all the riders having gone through training in track riding.
24 racers in a scratch race can be a mess. For TTT pursuit training I've seen 20+ riders on the track. There is lots of opportunity there for a pack pile-up. Each team is going a different speed, entering, leaving and sometime single wander on (although they are not supposed to). I would fully expect a Keirin motor stopping in the middle of the track would be high opportunity for a pile of 3-4 riders. A points race, miss n out can and do have "pile-ups" when something sneaks its way onto the track.

Not really much of a pile-up but one goes down, and pretty easy for another to as well. Only 4 behind him, one went down - should be pretty good riders here. @5:00
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Old 01-21-17, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
A few years back IndyCar had a safety vehicle racing the wrong way down the track trying tot reach a turn-off while the entire field took the green and was bearing down at 180 mph.

That would have been a pile-up.
Jimmy Johnson had a little gearbox trouble and ...

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