Roman Vintfeld

Kittel and Boonen, poor sods. Big Bike pushing them around telling them what to do.

datlas 

Spoiler. Reported.

Seattle Forrest

Speaking of pointless, are you trying to convince us that we shouldn't try to punch our bikes?

vinuneuro

The aero side of disc brakes is fascinating. According to Canyon's data there's an average of 3.3W (1-5W through the yaw angle range) loss with discs in the Ultimate. Cervelo on the other hand has optimized fork/crown/wheel interaction by leveraging the freedom afforded by discs and gained 2W compared to the rim brake version of their aero bike. It seems that if the front end is designed around disc instead of just plugging them in, there is actually an efficiency increase over rim brakes. Plus all the other feel and modulation benefits. Exciting times ahead.

WhyFi

This is the thread for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt - take this positivity elsewhere!

Seattle Forrest

And when the rims no longer have to be designed for heat dissipation and strength to resist a clamping force, suddenly they can be designed for aerodynamics instead.

vinuneuro

I spun up the rear wheel and put my wrist to the disc but it didn't work.

This is a great point.

Dave Mayer

Impressive effort for the win. Who says that having a dump truck full of money dumped on you by a sponsor isn't motivational. Imagine how much bigger would have been the winning gap if he'd been on a real race bike. Anyway, hollow victory: Cavendish had already flatted out.

This has got me thinking: could disks be used within the peloton to shred competitors tires? I was watching the classic movie 'Ben Hur', particularly the chariot race scene where the villain is riding a rig with 'Greek wheels'. Nobody wants a rider with disks behind them, so they let them win...

DXchulo

He rode today's stage on rim brakes.

Roman Vintfeld

Without disc brakes.

Races with disc brakes = crashes and almost murders someone.
Races without disc brakes = wins.

I think that this issue has been settled.

700

Disc Brakes are a competitive advantage which cost time and money to implement.
If they lowered the bicycle weight from 6.8 to 5 kilograms (achievable today) some riders would scream that bicycles that light are too dangerous.

Aren't manufacturers the biggest sponsors anyway?

Dan333SP

What a time to be alive!

nycphotography

Disk brake discussions, tubeless tire discussions, and electronic shifting discussions.... trump vs obama, christian vs (gasp) non-christian... it all just reminds me how real and unavoidable the bell curve is, and reinforces why the US was designed as a representative democracy rather than a direct democracy.

These discussions should be all be moved to P&R the moment they cross over from informational exchange into religious furor.

MC13

Same thing in Grease when Leo Balmudo tried to slash the tires of Greased Lightening on Thunder Road. Danny Zuko took damage to his door from Leo's blades rims, but avoided the slashing of his tires. In a deft move he forced Leo to spin out and stall in a puddle. The rest is history and Danny got the girl.

Dave Mayer

Yes, bike and component manufacturers are among the biggest sponsors. They place intense pressure on teams and riders to showcase saleable new tech, with the primary audience being dentists and other weekend warriors. Only a very few star riders can resist this pressure, the classic example being Lance Armstrong riding ancient LOOK-style pedals well after Shimano had moved on to a newer proprietary design.

And disk brakes are a competitive disadvantage due to the weight, aero, lack of compatibility, and awkward and slow wheel changes. Plus the constant rubbing. As far as the weight, disks carry an insurmountable disadvantage, in a sport where riders use unpainted bikes on the mountain stages - to save 30 grams. You always take mass off of the wheels, regardless of the UCI weight limit.

And as far as disks supposedly allowing lighter and more aero rim designs, this is also a non-issue, as elite level riding is done on tubulars, all of the time. Tubular rims are already have a perfect cross-section, which allows braking track strength and an aero profile.

WhyFi

Don't many have to add ballast to meet the UCI minimum?

MC13

"Yes, bike and component manufacturers are among the biggest sponsors...with the primary audience being dentists and other weekend warriors."

Ouch! I'm assuming this wasn't meant to be flattering toward the people who buy the bikes and supply the revenue that allows bike manufactures to innovate all cycling equipment and sponsor teams and events?

Dave Mayer

Sure, there has been real innovation. Brifters, carbon & electronic shifting. But a lot of faddish nonsense along the way. Remember this timeline:

• In 1972 everyone had to be on a '10-speed race bike'.
• 1984: a 'touring bike'
• 1988: a 'mountain bike'
• 1993: a 'full suspension mountain bike'
• 2005: a 'fixie'
• 2012: 'Fondo bike'
• 2015: 'gravel endurance bikes with disk brakes'

Plus adding a cassette cog every 7 years: planned obsolescence.

Through all of this, your average casual rider would have been much better off with a simple upright hybrid (no suspension) that were ubiquitous in 1955.

Back to road bikes: weekend warriors with disposable incomes come from mountain bike backgrounds. They had disks on these bikes. Therefore they expect disks on their new road bike. Why create sales obstacles? - give them disks. It is the job of the pros to sell stuff.

MC13

You paint with a pretty broad brush.

A fad implies something that gains popularity, then goes away. Most of what you list as fads are huge segments in the cycling industry today, so not sure how fleeting they were. I think what your timeline suggests is an evolution that makes cycling accessible to more people based on what they want out of it.

I also wouldn't necessarily classify anyone who gets most of their road miles in on the weekend a 'weekend warrior', it's just when their career and family likely allows for them to get out for most of their miles. Their personal success (i.e. disposable income) and commitment to fitness and training is the lifeblood for the industry and keeps innovation coming, bikes shops open, etc. They also raise millions upon millions for very worthy causes via charity rides. Be thankful for them. I'm done with that topic.

Anyway, it sounds like you don't like disc brakes, and only time will tell. I think they're here to stay and rim brakes may go the way of tube shifters in 10 years. I have nothing against rim brakes, it's just that the writing is on the wall and I believe the debate is already over.

Good luck!

zymphad

Well I think that's it for this year. Kittel is no longer riding disc. Sagan has chosen not to race disc, but trains with them. He said recently, he believes they are the future, but maybe in a few years. I think disc riders will cave to pressure from the rest of the peloton.

Hilariously, I can imagine it will be Peloton vs Manufacturers. 2018, Specialized: No, we only have disc bikes for you. We won't sponsor you with non-disc bikes. Suck it.

vinuneuro

Can you link the article where you read this? Not disputing the veracity, would like to read the article.

I wonder where this leaves Specialized for Flanders, Paris-Roubaix, etc. Since new up-level Roubaix is only disc, their riders will ride Tarmac's or Roubaix SL4 frames?

imi

Spoiler. Reported

zymphad

Sagan evasive about his form before Omloop Het Nieuwsblad | Cyclingnews.com

cthenn

Oh noes, another pro weighs in against discs. Discfan rage level has to be pretty high by now, they won't conform grrrrr!!!

Quintana: Disc brakes are heavier, less aero, and dangerous | Cyclingnews.com

TimothyH

This thread is why I and so many others care so little about pro cycling.