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The meat slicers are at it again.

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

The meat slicers are at it again.

Old 02-23-17, 10:12 AM
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Roman Vintfeld
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The meat slicers are at it again.

Doull claims Kittel's 'lethal' disc brake bike almost caused serious injury | Cyclingnews.com



"My shoe was cut to pieces. That’s definitely a disc brake that has done that,” said Doull.
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Old 02-23-17, 10:20 AM
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wow
:
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Old 02-23-17, 10:36 AM
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Very interesting to see the fight between MFG and folks actually riding the bikes.... Yes popcorn indeed.
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Old 02-23-17, 10:36 AM
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Only one bicycle with discs in there too. What are the odds?
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Old 02-23-17, 10:42 AM
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I wonder what the orange discoloration between the two sliced bits of the shoe could be from?
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Old 02-23-17, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP View Post
I wonder what the orange discoloration between the two sliced bits of the shoe could be from?
Disc coloration?
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Old 02-23-17, 10:55 AM
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Hmmm. I wonder how the spokes allowed the disk to be that far toward the center of his shoe. Were the spokes gone?

And does he not know that this year's disks have rounded edges?

If the disk were being powered at a high rpm at the time, I could see one eventually wearing a hole in a shoe. But if there's not power being applied (as in a crash situation), the disk/wheel would stop spinning long before the disk wore a hole in the shoe. The shoe itself acts as a brake, folks.

I smell the delicate bouquet of bovine excrement.

Last edited by FlashBazbo; 02-23-17 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 02-23-17, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP View Post
I wonder what the orange discoloration between the two sliced bits of the shoe could be from?
Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
I smell the delicate bouquet of bovine excrement.
Probably that. Or old blood from its previous victim.
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Old 02-23-17, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP View Post
I wonder what the orange discoloration between the two sliced bits of the shoe could be from?
I think that's the key clue to whatever penetrated the shoe. Clearly wasn't a brake disk, for any number of reasons. (Placement of the cut, the rounded edge on this year's brake disks, the wide scrape on the shoe, the lack of any electric motors to drive the disk (oops), his foot being on the wrong side of the bike to be cut by somebody else's brake disk, etc., etc., etc.) Maybe road debris -- a piece of glass on the road?

Last edited by FlashBazbo; 02-23-17 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 02-23-17, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
Hmmm. I wonder how the spokes allowed the disk to be that far toward the center of his shoe. Were the spokes gone?
This is what I've been wondering, too - discs only protrude so far from the spokes and you would think that that would mitigate a lot of the potential for serious danger. As far as the potential for minor danger, such as seen here, okay, but weigh that vs the benefits.
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Old 02-23-17, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
Hmmm. I wonder how the spokes allowed the disk to be that far toward the center of his shoe. Were the spokes gone?

If the disk were being powered at a high rpm at the time, I could see one eventually wearing a hole in a shoe. But if there's not power being applied (as in a crash), the disk/wheel would stop spinning long before the disk wore a hole in the shoe. The shoe itself acts as a brake, folks.

I smell the delicate bouquet of bovine excrement.
So what's your theory? Dude kept a knife in his back pocket for just the right occasion?
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Old 02-23-17, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels View Post
So what's your theory? Dude kept a knife in his back pocket for just the right occasion?
My theory? Road debris. There's a wide scrape that runs over the cuts. (A disk wouldn't make that mark and neither would a knife.) Maybe a piece of glass on the road.

EDIT: Now that I've seen the post-crash video . . . he crashed in the last km against the barriers on his left. Maybe a piece of the bracketing / supports on the barriers did it. It appears that the barriers are the only thing he hit to his left. And the discoloration may have come from scraping the banners that covered the barriers there.

At the end of the crash, the guy's bike, several feet, and Kittel are between him and Kittel's bike. He's positioned well behind and probably 15 feet from Kittel's bike. Three other bikes end up a lot closer to him than Kittel's bike did. Unless Kittel's brake disk did some kind of "grassy knoll" gymnastics, this isn't a plausible explanation. On the other hand, the barrier was knocked out of position and the banner was partially torn down right where the guy ended up. My theory is that the barrier / supports / clamps did it.

Last edited by FlashBazbo; 02-23-17 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 02-23-17, 11:34 AM
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Ok, I'm too curious. The highlight video shows some brief footage of the aftermath starting around 1:41. I don't even see where Kittel landed, but Doull is clearly pulling himself from underneath the road barrier. Highly likely that there could have been a sharp edge on the bottom of that thing for some reason. It would also account for the large rust colored rub mark along the shoe.
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Old 02-23-17, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels View Post
Ok, I'm too curious. The highlight video shows some brief footage of the aftermath starting around 1:41. I don't even see where Kittel landed, but Doull is clearly pulling himself from underneath the road barrier. Highly likely that there could have been a sharp edge on the bottom of that thing for some reason. It would also account for the large rust colored rub mark along the shoe.
BUT, I can totally understand his frustration. He's in the heat of the moment receiving treatment just after a crash and sees a super clean cut in his shoe. Kind of scary when you make a living pushing pedals with your feet. Without going back and looking at any video or anything, he's wondering what the hell he could have gotten that cut from and then he realizes the very popular topic of disc brakes and knows Kittel was involved in the crash. You can see where his mind might go from there.
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Old 02-23-17, 11:44 AM
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So let them ride without brakes, or what ever they fancy. What ever happens in a pileup is not applicable to general road riding anyway.
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Old 02-23-17, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels View Post
Ok, I'm too curious. The highlight video shows some brief footage of the aftermath starting around 1:41. I don't even see where Kittel landed, but Doull is clearly pulling himself from underneath the road barrier. Highly likely that there could have been a sharp edge on the bottom of that thing for some reason. It would also account for the large rust colored rub mark along the shoe.
Those road barriers are concrete aren't they? Hard to imagine that something sharp would be sticking out of the concrete. Those slices were done from another bike although maybe not a disc.
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Old 02-23-17, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP View Post
Disc coloration?


you win the internets today!
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Old 02-23-17, 11:51 AM
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@0:26 it looks like Kittel was on his right side. The shoe had a cut on the left so I'm not sure why Kittel is getting blamed. Kittel ended up far away from him after the collision @0:39



VIDEO - Team Sky's Owain Doull suffers nasty bum injury in Abu Dhabi - Abu Dhabi Tour - Video Eurosport
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Old 02-23-17, 11:53 AM
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How much difference do rounded edges really make? If you have a thin piece of metal (possibly very hot) spinning at high RPM, it's still going to do a lot of damage.

Covers would look Fredly, but seem like the only real solution to me.
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Old 02-23-17, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by enzo thecat View Post
Those road barriers are concrete aren't they? Hard to imagine that something sharp would be sticking out of the concrete. Those slices were done from another bike although maybe not a disc.
Check out the highlight video in the link from the original post. It's one of those temporary metal gate style barriers.
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Old 02-23-17, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by DXchulo View Post
How much difference do rounded edges really make? If you have a thin piece of metal (possibly very hot) spinning at high RPM, it's still going to do a lot of damage.

Covers would look Fredly, but seem like the only real solution to me.
In woodworking, cutting/scraping tools with 90° cutting edges are not uncommon - they can be quite sharp. Easing the edges on a ~1.5mm disc would blunt a lot of the cutting potential, hot and spinning or not.
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Old 02-23-17, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by enzo thecat View Post
Those road barriers are concrete aren't they? Hard to imagine that something sharp would be sticking out of the concrete. Those slices were done from another bike although maybe not a disc.
No. They are tubular steel with flat steel supports and with steel clamps bolting them together, end to end.
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Old 02-23-17, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ARPRINCE View Post
@0:26 it looks like Kittel was on his right side. The shoe had a cut on the left so I'm not sure why Kittel is getting blamed. Kittel ended up far away from him after the collision @0:39



VIDEO - Team Sky's Owain Doull suffers nasty bum injury in Abu Dhabi - Abu Dhabi Tour - Video Eurosport
Yeah, a careful look at that tells you he didn't even hit Kittel, but he DID hit the fence.
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Old 02-23-17, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ARPRINCE View Post
@0:26 it looks like Kittel was on his right side. The shoe had a cut on the left so I'm not sure why Kittel is getting blamed. Kittel ended up far away from him after the collision @0:39



VIDEO - Team Sky's Owain Doull suffers nasty bum injury in Abu Dhabi - Abu Dhabi Tour - Video Eurosport
Agreed. He might want to blame Kittel for putting him into the barriers, but he never came close to Kittel's brake disk -- not with his left foot, anyway. He hit the barriers pretty hard -- knocked them back several feet. That's the only thing he hit with his left foot.
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Old 02-23-17, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels View Post
Check out the highlight video in the link from the original post. It's one of those temporary metal gate style barriers.
Thanks. I see it now and I agree, coulda been the metal barrier.
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