vintagerando

I know, I know....this has been discussed ad nauseam. Let me tell you where I am coming from: I have completed (and registered for a couple more) 100km rides that are run locally where I live. I have done these with just the hard-copy cue sheet. After this weekend, I will NOT go on one of these rides without a GPS/bike computer again. I got lost in 28 degree weather and added a nice distance to the 100km route. So, I plan to do more 100km and try a 200km also. Maybe, maybe, some day do a 400km. I am not racing...I guess its slightly competitive, touring, see how- you-do kind of riding. I am currently do maybe 60 miles a week. In the future, I would like to get a power meter, maybe stages.(Probably far more tech than I need.)
So, navigation, clear, easy to see navigation is important. what I am confused about is pre loading maps versus having a device that works like a car GPs.
What Garmin would be best? I am not going into the price range of the Garmin 1000. So, I narrowed it down to the 520 or 800 series.
What would be best for the type of rider I am ?
Thanks.

Silvercivic27

1000. Just spend the money.

turkey9186

If you want a moving map, you need the 800 or 1000 series. If you can find a used 705 in good shape, it will also do what you need.
I have heard good things about the new Wahoo GPS units also.
I use Ride With GPS for building and loading course maps. User interface for building maps is a little easier to use than Strava. You build the course then load it as a GPX file onto the GPS. The process is not that hard after you do it a couple times.
Battery life might be an issue at 400KM. I was able to barely get 12 hours out of my 705 and the best I have done with my 1000 is around seven hours. A 1500-2500 mAh battery is supposed to be a good option to extend the battery life.

njkayaker

Only get a 705 if it's in good shape and cheap. Used 800's are around $150 and the 800 is a better unit.

The Wahoo units is basically equivalent to the Garmin 520. The turn notifications might be a bit better and the map display is better (but no street names).

The 520 has a basic map (less detail than the Wahoo). You can install more detailed maps on the 520 but they can't be too big.

The turn notifications of the 800, 810, 820, 1000 are better.

The newer units aren't really any better for navigation than the old 800.

I use a 800 and generally keep an eye on the map. That way, you know what is coming up and can see that you are off course if you happen to miss the device telling you to make a turn.

chaadster

I'd go Wahoo ELEMNT. Upload routes from RWGPS, and do quick, on-the-fly route mods to the unit from my smartphone.

Obviously not a good choice for backcountry wilderness rambling when you want to reroute and no cell service is available, but otherwise, the good basemaps and 17hr battery life make the ELEMNT attractive.

njkayaker

The Garmins that use maps (800 and later), can be used like a car gps (but you don't get spoken instructions). But , usually, people load a track file (the path you made trying to follows) onto the device.

When using a track file, you get turn notifications. It take some experience getting used to using it, but, in my opinion, it works well (I've done long distance night time rides). Keeping an eye on the map makes the navigation more reliable.

They sort-of work like a car GPS, but you have to pay more attention than you need-to in a car.

Noahma

You could carry a battery pack and cable and charge it mid ride if you have time to get it setup. I have a 5500ma battery pack I have on my longer rides when I have my camera mounted, worked like a charm. I also have a 15,00ma pack I plan on bringing in my seat pack when I do the MS150 later this year to keep my phone, bike computer, and phone charged.

vintagerando

I am thinking the 820 is the way to go.

zymphad

The Bolt has world maps pre-loaded I thought. It should be able to find a route without a phone? At least that was my hope.

chaadster

Yes, it has maps preloaded (so it can show you where you are relative to other things), but it does not route (or reroute) on the head unit, so you'd need the smartphone app for that.

So for example, if you fail to take a turn and go off route, you can use the map to navigate back to the course, but ELEMNT will not work like a car GPS and tell you how to do it. It's like breadcrumb nav, just with a decent map (no street names, though).

Or, in an off course situation, you fould pull out the phone, reroute to a destination, and send to ELEMNT. That won't help you get back on the old course, though.

DGlenday

Garmin eTrex.

If you plan to do 400km rides, you need something that does not by charge via a USB port. The eTrex takes AA batteries. This is the unit that most ultra distance riders use.

deepakvrao

Are the maps in the Wahoo at least as detailed as the openstreet maps that you can load on the 520?

chaadster

No, if only because ELEMNT does not display street names.

chaadster

These two pics do a good job, probably, of helping understand how the 520 and ELEMNT/BOLT do maps differently.





I think there's no doubt the Garmin maps are nicer, but Wahoo has some nice features to keep you on track, which I think for a certain segment of riders is really all they're looking for, so the total ELEMNT package, including lower pricing, is pretty attractive.

Similarly, advanced map users, like tourers or randos, would probably prefer the 520 feature set.

It all depends on the rider's needs; map detail is only sacrificed if you'd otherwise use it, you know?

dmanthree

Can't USB units be charged via generator hubs?

dmanthree

One more note: don't discount support. I recently purchased an Edge 25, but have never been able to load an activity. Garmin has acknowledged the issue but offered no date for a fix. I'm moving to a Bolt.

njkayaker

Maybe.

Some of the units pop up a message when external power is shut off.

You can charge an external battery with the hub and use that to run the GPS.

njkayaker

A fair number charge by the USB port. The main problem with that is if it's wet. The eTrex is big.

redfooj

its very easy to load detailed maps to 520. thats not the problem

problem is tiny display, essentially no working control (pan, zoom, etc), terrible rate of display or refresh, finnicky notification settings and control...

when i go on a new route with my 520, i still bring a miniature cue sheet or use my phone at breaks

merlinextraligh

DC Rainmaker has a nice comparison between the 1000 and 820.

There's not much the 1000 does that the 820 doesn't.

My 1000 fell off and got run over by a car.

I'm going to replace it with an 820 because I don't see anything the 1000 does and the 820 doesn't that I care about.

I imagine the next iteration of the 1000 will push it out further, but with the 820 being more recently released than the 1000, the gap between the 1000 series and 800 series seems pretty small.

njkayaker

That was useful.

The Elmnt is $330 and the Bolt is $250. The Garmin 520 is $300 (the Garmin unit that mostly matches the Wahoo products). (If you are patient, you can get the 1000 for $400.)

People should buy the unit that is best for them rather than worrying about a small difference in price.

People really interested in navigation should forgo the 520 (and the Wahoo units). The 520 only displays maps and has very limited room for them. And you can't pan or zoom the map.

The Garmins (Edges and eTreks) let you install your own maps. Devices from other companies (Mio, Bryton, Wahoo) appear not to.

Better maps give you more options for navigation.

Details like water, improved indications of road classes, and street names provide a better sense of where you are.

I've worked out detours on the fly with the Garmin. That would be harder to do with the Wahoo.

I've used the Garmin for street names when using paper cuesheets.s.

njkayaker

With respect to how the units are usually used for navigation, the newer units don't really do anything better than the ancient 800.

The 1000 has a bigger/better screen, which helps with using the map (the 820's screen is a bit small). The computer in the 1000 appears to be faster than that in the 800/810 (don't know about the 820), which makes updating the screen faster.

Seattle Forrest

Fenix 5X. Best Garmin on the market.

chaadster

I agree with you on all those points, especially about those "really interested in navigation" forgoing the 520 and Wahoo units; I didn't realize the 520 has "essentially no working pan or zoom" as @redfooj points out, which would limit it's appeal for, say, ride leaders building routes.

njkayaker

I've used zooming and panning while riding to avoid backtracking after missing turns or to work around detours. It's a fairly basic feature.

Many riders with the "fancy" Garmins don't use them for navigation. Of those who do, some might not use the devices very effectively.