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DengFu R01 / R02 - I bought and built one

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

DengFu R01 / R02 - I bought and built one

Old 04-12-17, 04:14 PM
  #26  
67stang
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Originally Posted by redfooj View Post
They don't need seller protection.

On record, they didn't sell you anything.

You didn't send money as a purchase. You apparently proposed, and were happy, to transfer money across the Pacific as a personal payment. This entitled you to Z.E.R.O. purchase protection.

You can't "screw" them. Your money went into their account.

You didn't seek the advice, but it's free. No refunds.

I bought a new car last year and went out of state to save on the sales tax - sheeit!, please school me on how I lost out on California consumer protection and bought a lemon
Even worse, I didn't pay the dealership through paypal

Not sure why you're so defensive of paypal bro; let alone why you're assumption is that any overseas seller MUST be screwing you over.

For your info, it was a PURCHASE, I have an invoice and it is referenced as such in paypal. Paypal is a middle man that I couldn't GIVE A FOCK about - the transaction is between me and deng fu, which I vetted and was comfortable with.

Secondly, as I said before, and as you acknowledged - the credit card charge is to pay pal. IF I had an issue, I would call my credit card and dispute it - and guess what, they'd reverse the charge and ask pay pal to prove the legitimacy of the charge. I'm confident I'd prevail - which is why I did the transaction the way I did it - and gee cowboy, my instincts must be ok because I have a frame, the seller got paid, no one got screwed and pay pal didn't **** me on fees.

But, you got any questions about the bike cowboy?
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Old 04-12-17, 04:26 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by 67stang View Post
I bought a new car last year and went out of state to save on the sales tax - sheeit!, please school me on how I lost out on California consumer protection and bought a lemon
Even worse, I didn't pay the dealership through paypal

Not sure why you're so defensive of paypal bro; let alone why you're assumption is that any overseas seller MUST be screwing you over.

For your info, it was a PURCHASE, I have an invoice and it is references as such in paypal.
Secondly, as I said before, and as you acknowleged - the credit card charge is to pay pal. IF I had an issue, I would call my credit card and dispute it - and guess what, they'd reverse the charge and ask pay pal to prove the legitimacy of the charge. I'm confident I'd prevail - which is why I did the transaction the way I did it - and gee cowboy, my instincts must be ok because I have a frame, the seller got paid, no one got screwed and pay pal didn't **** me on fees.

But, you got any questions about the bike cowboy?
If you paid cash, they would never have made you pay a fee no matter what you called the transaction. If you paid by credit card, you did pay a fee. Done and done. The only reason you think you didn't pay a fee is because you didn't have to pay it to Deng-fu. If you look at your Pay Pal account, I bet you will see the fees.
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Old 04-12-17, 04:32 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by 67stang View Post
I bought a new car last year and went out of state to save on the sales tax - sheeit!, please school me on how I lost out on California consumer protection and bought a lemon
Even worse, I didn't pay the dealership through paypal

Not sure why you're so defensive of paypal bro; let alone why you're assumption is that any overseas seller MUST be screwing you over.

For your info, it was a PURCHASE, I have an invoice and it is referenced as such in paypal. Paypal is a middle man that I couldn't GIVE A FOCK about - the transaction is between me and deng fu, which I vetted and was comfortable with.

Secondly, as I said before, and as you acknowledged - the credit card charge is to pay pal. IF I had an issue, I would call my credit card and dispute it - and guess what, they'd reverse the charge and ask pay pal to prove the legitimacy of the charge. I'm confident I'd prevail - which is why I did the transaction the way I did it - and gee cowboy, my instincts must be ok because I have a frame, the seller got paid, no one got screwed and pay pal didn't **** me on fees.

But, you got any questions about the bike cowboy?
i care about your car as much as i care about paypal.

im not defending they, you, or the seller.

im pointing out that skirting the paypal convention is not a triumph. its a gamble. where you assume all the risk.

an invoice is not proof of transaction. it's just that - an invoice.

you should give lots of fock about paypal, as they handle the money. your money.

if your cc issuer checks with paypal for transaction legitimacy, paypal will say yes, you legitimately sent personal payment to mr dengfu. you are a humanitarian to provide such a gift. nothing about bikes, tho.

i dont have anything against overseas seller. in fact i buy from them plenty.

you clearly still dont understand any of this. but hey you got confidence. thatll last you long. caveat emptor. (it means buyer beware). good luck
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Old 04-12-17, 04:42 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by redfooj View Post
i care about your car as much as i care about paypal.

im not defending they, you, or the seller.

im pointing out that skirting the paypal convention is not a triumph. its a gamble. where you assume all the risk.

an invoice is not proof of transaction. it's just that - an invoice.

you should give lots of fock about paypal, as they handle the money. your money.

if your cc issuer checks with paypal for transaction legitimacy, paypal will say yes, you legitimately sent personal payment to mr dengfu. you are a humanitarian to provide such a gift. nothing about bikes, tho.

i dont have anything against overseas seller. in fact i buy from them plenty.

you clearly still dont understand any of this. but hey you got confidence. thatll last you long. caveat emptor. (it means buyer beware). good luck

You make a lot of patronizing assumptions and kitschy one liners.
You'd make a good pay pal lower level employee, you tow the party line quite well.

But as it stands today; none of your sky is falling financial risk advise bore true - frame was delivered on time and to spec; they were paid said price; and I saved a few bucks. If I were buying the frame from a private party I'd bear the same risk - that was my rational.

cheers - go ride your bike, you're way to worked up over frankly nothing.
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Old 04-12-17, 04:42 PM
  #30  
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I think it could use some darker gray details or decals. Like a Navy jet.



(I wanted to look you up an example but I found pictures of the Advanced Super Hornet and the over-wing conformal fuel tanks made me gouge out my eyes, they're even uglier than the F-16 version)
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Old 04-12-17, 04:44 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
If you paid cash, they would never have made you pay a fee no matter what you called the transaction. If you paid by credit card, you did pay a fee. Done and done. The only reason you think you didn't pay a fee is because you didn't have to pay it to Deng-fu. If you look at your Pay Pal account, I bet you will see the fees.
paid mostly via pay pal balance; with about $90 on the cc tied to my pay pal. yes a small fee; but not the 4.7% on $712 applied by dengfu. make sense?
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Old 04-12-17, 04:45 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
I think it could use some darker gray details or decals. Like a Navy jet.



(I wanted to look you up an example but I found pictures of the Advanced Super Hornet and the over-wing fuel tanks made me gouge out my eyes, they're even uglier than the F-16 version)

Thank god... back on the subject of the bike! LOL
Yes, I wanted this look frankly:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eprCui8lrP4/maxresdefault.jpg
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Old 04-12-17, 04:53 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by 67stang View Post
Thank god... back on the subject of the bike! LOL
Yes, I wanted this look frankly:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eprCui8lrP4/maxresdefault.jpg
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Old 04-12-17, 05:11 PM
  #34  
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It's a great looking build. Never have understood why many people on these forums are fine with cheating Paypal though.
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Old 04-12-17, 06:17 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by exmechanic89 View Post
It's a great looking build. Never have understood why many people on these forums are fine with cheating Paypal though.
Thanks. I only speak for myself on the PayPal matter.... I built and sold two businesses that processed lots of payments through pay pal. Their nearly 5% fee is, IMO, excessive. Once they merged with eBay, the triple whammy of listing fee, sales commission and PayPal fee was enough to kill the margins for many small sellers. This has been written about extensively.

With respect to my transaction, PayPal did make a fee, just not the $42 originally proposed.

From a free market perspective, I have no remorse skirting the full fee - it's not against their ToU to make a personal payment, and yes while I accept the risk of not having perhaps their full "buyer protection" - I am ok with that because I feel it's my duty anyhow to make sure I am comfortable with the seller and what I am buying.

I will also admit that both as a buyer and seller on eBay I have taken a transaction off eBay to make the deal off line and save both parties the aforementioned fees.

You may even be shocked that I have bought/sold a house without a real estate broker taken a commission.

I'm sure the guy above who is on my ass about all this is just blowing an aorta now.



Cheers.
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Old 04-12-17, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 67stang View Post
paid mostly via pay pal balance; with about $90 on the cc tied to my pay pal. yes a small fee; but not the 4.7% on $712 applied by dengfu. make sense?
The cash balance wouldn't have incurred a credit card fee in any case. The 4.7% is likely a sum of the about 3% credit card fee and the currency conversion fee. I suspect you had to pay the conversion fee even on your cash. Just presuming.
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Old 04-12-17, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 67stang View Post
Thanks. I only speak for myself on the PayPal matter.... I built and sold two businesses that processed lots of payments through pay pal. Their nearly 5% fee is, IMO, excessive. Once they merged with eBay, the triple whammy of listing fee, sales commission and PayPal fee was enough to kill the margins for many small sellers. This has been written about extensively.

With respect to my transaction, PayPal did make a fee, just not the $42 originally proposed.

From a free market perspective, I have no remorse skirting the full fee - it's not against their ToU to make a personal payment, and yes while I accept the risk of not having perhaps their full "buyer protection" - I am ok with that because I feel it's my duty anyhow to make sure I am comfortable with the seller and what I am buying.

I will also admit that both as a buyer and seller on eBay I have taken a transaction off eBay to make the deal off line and save both parties the aforementioned fees.

You may even be shocked that I have bought/sold a house without a real estate broker taken a commission.

I'm sure the guy above who is on my ass about all this is just blowing an aorta now.



Cheers.
I'd put a 'like' on this post if I could.
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Old 04-12-17, 09:01 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by redfooj View Post
im pointing out that skirting the paypal convention is not a triumph. its a gamble. where you assume all the risk that paypal would have covered / insured.
FIFY. Not ALL the risk. Only the part of the risk that Paypal would have covered. but if your risk is covered / hedged other ways, how many insurance policies do you need for the same transaction?

If my car insurance covers rental cars, and my credit card covers rental cars, do I really need to ALSO pay Hertz for their loss waiver insurance policy?

As far as I'm concerned, I'm already paying for one insurance policy too many and sure as hell don't need a third one.

It's why I don't give the first ish about ebay "protection" if I'm paying with paypal. Or paypal "protection" if I'm paying by credit card.

That said, when dealing overseas for large amounts I do still make the sellers invoice thru paypal because paypal coverage is worth it and I'm already beating sales tax and about 4 intermediary markups.

But if I know the seller, or the seller has a brand on the line, then I'm inclined to just take my own risk on the deal.

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Old 04-12-17, 09:08 PM
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If you want a safety-crat to blow an aorta, explain how it is mathematically impossible for (actuarially accurate) insurance to ever be a good investment.

They (the actuaries) know the expected value (statistical expectation of loss) of the coverage. This is the actual statistical value to the insured. They (the company) then add commissions, profit, and overhead (someone has to pay for that skyscraper in Columbus full of sloth like corporate "workers").

At which it's a loser for the buyer, on average.
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Old 04-12-17, 09:29 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
If you want a safety-crat to blow an aorta, explain how it is mathematically impossible for (actuarially accurate) insurance to ever be a good investment.

They (the actuaries) know the expected value (statistical expectation of loss) of the coverage. This is the actual statistical value to the insured. They (the company) then add commissions, profit, and overhead (someone has to pay for that skyscraper in Columbus full of sloth like corporate "workers").

At which it's a loser for the buyer, on average.
Certainly on average people lose with insurance. But there will still be winners. Compensated for by the the losers.
They guy I know who has had 3 Pinarello Dogma's and a set of Lightweight wheels replaced on insurance is one of the winners .
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Old 04-12-17, 09:34 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
Certainly on average people lose with insurance. But there will still be winners. Compensated for by the the losers.
That EXACTLY describes the craps table in Vegas.

Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
They guy I know who has had 3 Pinarello Dogma's and a set of Lightweight wheels replaced on insurance is one of the winners .
My homeowners is $3k/yr w/ $5k deductible. 10 years w/ no claims, I'd probably still be a loser on 3 dogmas and a set of lightweight (lew) wheels.

It's really just fire/storm/total loss of the house, or the random $5m lawsuit for some idiot sliding on some other idiots dog **** on my sidewalk that I really have to insure against. the rest of the coverage I'm just stuck paying for whether I want it or not.
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Old 04-13-17, 03:54 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by 67stang View Post
Thanks. I only speak for myself on the PayPal matter.... I built and sold two businesses that processed lots of payments through pay pal. Their nearly 5% fee is, IMO, excessive. Once they merged with eBay, the triple whammy of listing fee, sales commission and PayPal fee was enough to kill the margins for many small sellers. This has been written about extensively.

With respect to my transaction, PayPal did make a fee, just not the $42 originally proposed.

From a free market perspective, I have no remorse skirting the full fee - it's not against their ToU to make a personal payment, and yes while I accept the risk of not having perhaps their full "buyer protection" - I am ok with that because I feel it's my duty anyhow to make sure I am comfortable with the seller and what I am buying.
nobody claimed you breached their use policy.
what you went around was use convention. swat team wont bust in your house for that. but what you did lose is their buyer protection.

so you begrudge their costs, but are captive to use their services anyway. so whos the angry party here?

congrats on saving 42$ tho, mr captain of industry. woah us more with your tales of financial success. the internet is never short of folks waiting to be impressed.

Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
FIFY. Not ALL the risk. Only the part of the risk that Paypal would have covered. but if your risk is covered / hedged other ways, how many insurance policies do you need for the same transaction?

If my car insurance covers rental cars, and my credit card covers rental cars, do I really need to ALSO pay Hertz for their loss waiver insurance policy?

It's why I don't give the first ish about ebay "protection" if I'm paying with paypal. Or paypal "protection" if I'm paying by credit card.

That said, when dealing overseas for large amounts I do still make the sellers invoice thru paypal because paypal coverage is worth it and I'm already beating sales tax and about 4 intermediary markups.
yup, that's exactly the thing. and actually, eligibility for cc coverage on car rentals requires declining the renting agency's c.d.w./l.d.w.

however, credit card protection applies if they are the processor for a transaction. in the case of funding a paypal gift/donation, as far as the cc is concerned, the transaction is complete - as the purchase is not recognized. at best it muddles up the claims process.

Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
If you want a safety-crat to blow an aorta, explain how it is mathematically impossible for (actuarially accurate) insurance to ever be a good investment.

They (the actuaries) know the expected value (statistical expectation of loss) of the coverage. This is the actual statistical value to the insured. They (the company) then add commissions, profit, and overhead (someone has to pay for that skyscraper in Columbus full of sloth like corporate "workers").

At which it's a loser for the buyer, on average.
anyone ever argued a case against this? insurers and casinos dont exist for altruistic reason. people dont buy health/car/house/employment/booty insurance because they do know exactly the future outcome (e.g. i will have only 1 accident costing $$$). people buy insurance because they don't know it.
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Old 04-13-17, 05:06 AM
  #43  
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So... about that bike build...
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Old 04-13-17, 06:37 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
Certainly on average people lose with insurance. But there will still be winners. Compensated for by the the losers.
They guy I know who has had 3 Pinarello Dogma's and a set of Lightweight wheels replaced on insurance is one of the winners .
Nobody loses on insurance. Nobody wins. You aren't buying a specific compensation that you may or may not receive. You are buying the protection and peace of mind. If you in fact received the protection (no reason to assume otherwise), then you got what you paid for whether you ever get compensated for a loss or not. Your belief is the classic misunderstanding about insurance.
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Old 04-13-17, 06:49 AM
  #45  
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I got nothing on pay-pal fees but I'm quiet envious of people who have complete Ultegra Di2 groups in their parts bin. I sort of like the gray, refreshing but still a bit bland. I'd like some anodized bits here and there. I have red on my bike but it's the basic matte black, I think some anodized blue would go well with the gray.

What's the BH G6 mentioned in the first post? I take it to be a TT bike maybe but didn't recolonize the model/name.
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Old 04-13-17, 06:57 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Nobody loses on insurance. Nobody wins. You aren't buying a specific compensation that you may or may not receive. You are buying the protection and peace of mind. If you in fact received the protection (no reason to assume otherwise), then you got what you paid for whether you ever get compensated for a loss or not. Your belief is the classic misunderstanding about insurance.
And this is the same misunderstanding about immediate annuities. You don't win if you live 40 years more. You don't lose if you die tomorrow. In each case you got what you paid for, guaranteed income until the day you die. No matter how short or long you live, you cannot outlive your money. That isn't for everyone, but it isn't about winners or losers. And after you die, what difference does it make. If you want money for your heirs, it isn't for you.
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Old 04-13-17, 07:17 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Nobody loses on insurance.
LOL, you must never have made a claim.
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Old 04-13-17, 07:19 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
LOL, you must never have made a claim.
As I said, nobody loses providing you get the protection you paid for.
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Old 04-13-17, 07:24 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
LOL, you must never have made a claim.
i've actually had very positive experience with claims.
except for an auto accident in italy. even with full documentation and police report.
lesson learned = dont drive your own car in italy. atleast in the southern part.
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Old 04-13-17, 07:51 AM
  #50  
seypat
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Looks like the primer is dry. Now you need to decide on a color and get it painted.
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