DrIsotope

42-11 @ 110rpm is about 35mph. On the flats without wind, would take about 450w to sustain it. I do not have now, nor will I ever have the desire to ride amongst the group of mythical beasts who could produce that output for any amount of time.

I just did 8,400ft of climbing this morning with the 42T 1X setup, and was not especially disadvantaged going up or down the hill.

HTupolev

Dean V (and myself) is mostly talking about group descents. The point is that if a group is falling down a hill faster than tucking and drafting can sustain, a 100-inch gear is a tangible disadvantage.

DrIsotope

We are we going down this theoretical hill in such a hurry? Are there free donuts at the bottom? Is there some other prize? Outside of a closed course race, who is continually spinning out big gears to get to the bottom of a one hour descent 3 or 4 minutes faster?

And during the recent local race, you know what the peleton was doing down the long descent? Coasting. Because that's where they rest.

HTupolev

For fun.

Also, because I wasn't kidding about that tandem and recumbent. D:

DrIsotope

So is there a number where the fun kicks in? Am I incapable of reaching that number with my ridiculously disadvantageous gearing? because if so, total bummer, maaaaannn.

Bike Gremlin

Descent is another matter, but even then - not sure about the others, but for me, spinning past 35 mph makes little difference to just tucking.

znomit

No.

HTupolev

Rules of thumb like that can work for solo rides, since your single-rider weight and profile characteristics are relatively fixed, and there's roughly a particular grade where that flips.

Group rides, depends on speed and grade, and also who you're behind. If a great descender at the front is really hammering on a shallow grade, tucking and relying on gravity to suck you downhill isn't necessarily going to cut it.

Well, uh.

It's difficult.

wheelhot

Sounds like you just described the '17 Specialized Roubaix

RJM

They are also riding tubulars.

DrIsotope

...and are being pursued by a fleet of support vehicles with complete replacement wheels.

znomit

Somewhere beyond 41

DrIsotope

According to the 41, nothing exists beyond the 41.

kbarch

Some have no desire to ride among the mythical beasts who sustain cadences of 110 while producing 450 watts. It's really a matter of what one is used to, and I suppose we're all reasonably adaptable, but if one spends all day mostly below 80 and rarely above 90, 110 feels downright spastic. While occasionally I'll maintain a higher average cadence (during which rides 130 or so may still feel reasonably well-controlled), most of the time I maintain a fairly recreational 80-90. I also find that lower cadences feel more controlled/safer when going fast, and I suspect many others feel the same.

reef58

Maybe not everyone wants to ride like you. Maybe I don't want to ride in a fast group pedaling 110rpm. I don't want to pedal 100rpms. I would prefer 80 to 90 and keep something in reserve.

If i do the AOMM I would like to stick with the fast group to Marion and don't want to try that with a 42/11, especially with the climbing in the last 25 miles. So go do it with your 42/11. It can be done. I bet the second time around you would not opt for the 42/11 unless you are really stubborn.

Good luck fitting in the pace line with those huge gaps in your cassette. Good luck with your 42 front ring in the last 25 miles. There are certainly better tools for the job than what you suggest.

DrIsotope

Conversely, maybe not everyone wants to ride like you. The odds of finding me in some mythical 30mph paceline is equal to the odds of me running into you on some nature paths or horse trails. The mere thought of configuring my bike to fit the needs of a paceline gives me the desire to stick a pencil in my ear until the lights go out.

Whether you have a desire to spin or not, 42/11 @ 90rpm is a tame 27mph. So what the living hell does that have to do with climbing? Unless you're fitting a triple, I'm better outfitted to do any climbing than you are, as my final gear is 1:1. Or is this about chasing the guy in front of you down the hill, so you outfit the bike with a 53T so you can use ti for 20 minutes during a 4 hours ride? I'll just coast down, and get to the bottom 2 minutes later fully rested.

Lastly, if you think your choice of cadence determines your "reserve capacity," well, I can't help you there.

HTupolev

I like that strategy. My gravel bike has a 113" top gear (48-11), a 22" low gear (24-28), and step sizes averaging about 8% in the interval from 55 to 96 inches (giving me decently tight spacing from the upper teens to around 30mph). It provides what's needed for speedy road pacelines and mountainous gravel roads, with just a 7-speed cassette.

If there is a guy in front of you, and they're a much stronger descender than you for whatever reason (to where you can't keep up by merely tucking and coasting in the draft), then that can matter. In that case, a big ring might actually be the ticket to getting to the bottom rested, since spinning super-high cadence is tiring. Getting dropped by 2 minutes also works, but then that 2 minutes might become much more than 2 minutes over the next several hours, if it means not working with someone else for the rest of the ride.

reef58

You said this:

As I tell everyone thinking about going to bigger chainrings up front, (oh, that good 'ol mid-compact!) "If you're thinking about pedaling down the hill, you didn't pedal hard enough going up it."

I say you are wrong. I don't care what you ride. Suit yourself, but just because I don't want a 42/11 does not mean I am not going up the hills hard enough. We have different riding styles. I respect that. I am not the one who insinuated you were not riding hard enough.

As far as the cadence goes if I am spinning at 110 rpm and then I need to go faster then what? I don't like to nor do I intend to spin away at 110 rpm's for any extended period of time. Yes it does impact "reserve" you can only spin so fast unless you train at excessive cadence. I don't nor do I want to. Go spin your 42/11 for 10 minutes at 110 let me know what your heart rate is. I suspect you will be at max or close to it unless you train to spin that high.

Have fun with your 42/11 I will enjoy my 50/11 or 30/28 whichever suits my needs.

reef58

Oh I forgot, you asked about climbing. Your quote also was in reference to a 1x drive train. For my example the compact double is a much better choice than a 1x11 with a 42 tooth gear. Like I said if you prefer to do a ride like the Assault on Mt. Mitchell on a 42 tooth 1x11 more power to you. I don't and I don't think my line of think is unreasonable. You would probably see most of the riders doing AOMM agree with me.

HTupolev

His point was that his low gear is just as low as yours (actually a bit lower). He's got an 11-42 cassette in back. Spacing isn't tight, but it can deal with the steep grades.

DrIsotope

Well, based on my measurements, 42/11 @ 110rpm on flat ground is about 900 watts. So my heart rate would be zero, because I would be dead. But hey, 50/11 drops to 89rpm at the same speed... but also requires about 900 watts. Let's clink glasses together to the fact that neither of us can do it.

reef58

I guess I will spend more time on this than I wanted. Your arguments are asinine.

1) I don't not want to ride in a group at 110rpms. I have no desire. Most folks riding in groups are not spinning at 110 rpms. Nor do they want to.

2) You wrote this: Whether you have a desire to spin or not, 42/11 @ 90rpm is a tame 27mph.

It does not take 900 watts to go 27mph on flat ground especially in a group. If I am in the group and the riders are strong I am likely around 200 watts unless I am on the front. As a matter of fact it does not take 900 watts to ride flat ground at 30mph all by yourself. Do you think riders in the TDF are pushing 900 watts sustained in a time trial?

It is generally accepted that if you are in a fairly aero position and can put out 300 watts you should have no trouble do 40km in less than an hour.

As far as taking two extra minutes vs holding a wheel it is going to cause more than 2 minutes and a whole lot more watts if you are riding solo versus staying with the group.

I am not saying you need to or desire to ride that way. I am saying a 42 tooth front is not for everyone, and not because we are soft pedaling hills. It is not optimum for riding with a fast group.

I will concede if you live on flat ground and ride by yourself it is not a horrible choice. I would still opt for a 46 likely on a 1x drivetrain. I tend to be a masher with a average cadence around 80rpm all said and done.

reef58

How is he going to get a lower gear with a 42 tooth ring than I can get with a 30 tooth ring. They make pretty large cassettes if you desire.

HTupolev

I think the assumption was that you were typically using a 28T big cog.

reef58

I am older now if I do the AOMM next year I will use a 32 or bigger. I may even, gulp, drop to a 48/28 or so. I may not be able to hang with the fast group.

Blue Ride Brutal I forgot to change cassettes and did that ride on an 11/23. Wont make that mistake again.