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Carbon clinchers - yay or nay?

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Carbon clinchers - yay or nay?

Old 07-04-17, 10:12 AM
  #1  
Eyedrop
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Carbon clinchers - yay or nay?












I never liked carbon braking tracks. They always seem to get wavy and have alot of problems with heat, developing pits, wear, etc...

I was wondering if there is a special magic brake pad designed to minimize wear on the braking track? I dont even care too much about braking performance, especially since I live in dry hot Arizona. Im just worried the wheels will be ruined with normal use.

I once had a set of tubular Zipps that developed a permanent pulsing during braking. I do live in a hot, hilly area and was using el cheapo "carbon safe" pads...

How good can braking get on carbon? Ive always wondered about those $50 pads... Are carbon clinchers doable durability wise in the mountains with the right setup? I should I really just stick with a good alloy wheelset? I just want one set of wheels to use for group ride hammerfests, training long days in the hills and wind, and doing a couple amateur cat 4 races a year.

Last edited by Eyedrop; 07-04-17 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 07-04-17, 12:27 PM
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I've had no problems with carbon clinchers in high heat, but Phoenix doesn't have the long descents of the Prescott area. Maybe the problem isn't the air temps, but rather a braking technique issue.
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Old 07-04-17, 12:32 PM
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The magic brake that minimizes wheel rim wear and tear...are called discs.
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Old 07-04-17, 01:20 PM
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Carbon clinchers: No.

Let's think this through... you want carbon for weight savings. You may think you want carbon to allow for deep aero wheels, but these are possible in alu as well. They are just heavier.

Carbon rims do not brake as well as alu - either wet or dry - this is unavoidable, regardless of the pads; I've tried multiple pads on carbon. Plus the well-documented heat dissipation problems. Carbon tubular rims handle heat dissipation somewhat better than carbon clinchers.

If your objective is elite-level performance wheels, then you'll be on tubulars. Clincher rims cannot match the weight and structural benefits of tubular rims, regardless of price. If you want superior braking and heat shedding for general riding, then alu.

Bottom line: carbon clinchers are an awkward kludge that seemingly have no function.
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Old 07-04-17, 02:08 PM
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These work for me.



Riding Chinese carbon clincher knock-offs as my everyday wheelset, clydesdale racer, putting out enough torque to break frames, yet my rims/wheels with these brakes have never given me any trouble.

Except: on long, steep, winding descents. Take one of those out of that equation and I'm fine. All three? Enough heat to melt the carbon glue and delaminate the carbon layers in the rim.
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Old 07-04-17, 02:42 PM
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For me, it's a nay. I have 2 sets of carbon clinchers sitting in bags in my basement closet collecting dust.
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Old 07-04-17, 03:47 PM
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It's optional. Generally best to use the pads that the manufacturer provides and/or recommends.

I am not an early adopter for disc brakes, but agree that solves the issue definitively.
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Old 07-04-17, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Silvercivic27 View Post
For me, it's a nay. I have 2 sets of carbon clinchers sitting in bags in my basement closet collecting dust.
You might want to sell them so someone can use them and you can buy some other schwag...
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Old 07-04-17, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Carbon clinchers: No.

Let's think this through... you want carbon for weight savings. You may think you want carbon to allow for deep aero wheels, but these are possible in alu as well. They are just heavier.

Carbon rims do not brake as well as alu - either wet or dry - this is unavoidable, regardless of the pads; I've tried multiple pads on carbon. Plus the well-documented heat dissipation problems. Carbon tubular rims handle heat dissipation somewhat better than carbon clinchers.

If your objective is elite-level performance wheels, then you'll be on tubulars. Clincher rims cannot match the weight and structural benefits of tubular rims, regardless of price. If you want superior braking and heat shedding for general riding, then alu.

Bottom line: carbon clinchers are an awkward kludge that seemingly have no function.
This ^.
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Old 07-04-17, 04:00 PM
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If I could afford them, I would own a set or two.

Last edited by tarmacgreg; 07-05-17 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 07-04-17, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Carbon clinchers: No.

Let's think this through... you want carbon for weight savings. You may think you want carbon to allow for deep aero wheels, but these are possible in alu as well. They are just heavier.

Carbon rims do not brake as well as alu - either wet or dry - this is unavoidable, regardless of the pads; I've tried multiple pads on carbon. Plus the well-documented heat dissipation problems. Carbon tubular rims handle heat dissipation somewhat better than carbon clinchers.

If your objective is elite-level performance wheels, then you'll be on tubulars. Clincher rims cannot match the weight and structural benefits of tubular rims, regardless of price. If you want superior braking and heat shedding for general riding, then alu.

Bottom line: carbon clinchers are an awkward kludge that seemingly have no function.
Why are there pros using them?
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Old 07-04-17, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JagR View Post
Why are there pros using them?
Do you really think they have a choice?

Did Ryder have a choice?

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Old 07-04-17, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mpath View Post
Do you really think they have a choice?

Did Ryder have a choice?

Don't know...

Do you know them personally? Are you Ms Cleos relative?
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Old 07-04-17, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by datlas View Post
You might want to sell them so someone can use them and you can buy some other schwag...
Yeah, I know, but I'm not good at selling stuff and am too lazy to try to box and ship them, so I generally will only sell stuff to local friends, teammates, etc. I have a set of Enve 6.7, front freshly rebuilt by ENVE after I melted it, haven't used it so it's essentially a new wheel. Have a set of Zipp 303 firecrests too. The Zipps have been fine in that I haven't melted them, but I personally hate all the noises that carbon braking surfaces make, even tubulars. I also have a set of Zipp 404/808 tubular with the brand new Vittoria Corsa graphene tires glued on that I also have never used because I don't race anymore. What a waste! I like the silence of an alloy brake track.
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Old 07-04-17, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by JagR View Post
Why are there pros using them?
I'm not aware of any UCI world tour pro teams on carbon clinchers that aren't also discs or on TT bikes. Triathlon pros use carbon clinchers for aero reasons, but they also don't ride up or down many hills or use the brakes much (I think, what little I know about triathlon)

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Old 07-04-17, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Silvercivic27 View Post
Yeah, I know, but I'm not good at selling stuff and am too lazy to try to box and ship them, so I generally will only sell stuff to local friends, teammates, etc. I have a set of Enve 6.7, front freshly rebuilt by ENVE after I melted it, haven't used it so it's essentially a new wheel. Have a set of Zipp 303 firecrests too. The Zipps have been fine in that I haven't melted them, but I personally hate all the noises that carbon braking surfaces make, even tubulars. I also have a set of Zipp 404/808 tubular with the brand new Vittoria Corsa graphene tires glued on that I also have never used because I don't race anymore. What a waste! I like the silence of an alloy brake track.
You still may want to unload them even if you get half retail, that's still a lot of coin. The longer you sit on them, the less valuable they will be. Kinda like having a laptop or smartphone in the basement. Newer models come out and make the older ones less desirable. I believe there are stores that will sell/pack/ship for you via ScamBay, for a price of course!
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Old 07-04-17, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by JagR View Post
Why are there pros using them?
Pros aren't paid to brake, they are being paid to win, not lose.

Secondly, if the rims deform from braking, pros are SPONSORED. Do you have 150 spare wheels in your mechanic's truck?

Also... Pros don't get a choice, it's in their contract to ride gear provided by their sponsors, lulz.

Originally Posted by JagR View Post
Don't know...

Do you know them personally? Are you Ms Cleos relative?
You need to know the pros personally to know why they use their team's sponsor provided wheels? lulz

Why did Team Cofidis ride a light weight climbing bike from Orbea on flat races when all their competitors are riding aero bikes? Do you need to know a Cofidis rider personally to know, the reason is because they didn't have a choice, they rode whatever Orbea told them to ride?

Last edited by zymphad; 07-04-17 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 07-04-17, 09:27 PM
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A set of disc 303s or 3.4s sounds good to me. I'll stick with alloy on my BMC but the Tarmac is begging for carbon wheels.
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Old 07-05-17, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
Pros aren't paid to brake, they are being paid to win, not lose.

Secondly, if the rims deform from braking, pros are SPONSORED. Do you have 150 spare wheels in your mechanic's truck?

Also... Pros don't get a choice, it's in their contract to ride gear provided by their sponsors, lulz.



You need to know the pros personally to know why they use their team's sponsor provided wheels? lulz

Why did Team Cofidis ride a light weight climbing bike from Orbea on flat races when all their competitors are riding aero bikes? Do you need to know a Cofidis rider personally to know, the reason is because they didn't have a choice, they rode whatever Orbea told them to ride?
The question was..."Did Ryder have a choice?". Were you there? Do you know or are you making assumptions based off of your understanding?
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Old 07-05-17, 04:16 AM
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If you're using rim brakes, "nay" to carbon clinchers. The performance just isn't there.


But if you're using discs? "yay" Disc brake carbon clinchers offer the best of all worlds. Lighter weight. Better rim shaping. And the best available braking performance.
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Old 07-05-17, 05:09 AM
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Yay. For my application (road racing in the dry), with good tires it's 90% of the performance with 10% of the hassle of tubulars.
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Old 07-05-17, 07:29 AM
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I have ridden for years with a large guy on enve 3.4 clinchers disc brake. He loves them and they are very fast.


I still prefer tubular myself, but if I had disc brakes I would try clincher
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Old 07-05-17, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by zymphad View Post
Pros aren't paid to brake, they are being paid to win, not lose.

Secondly, if the rims deform from braking, pros are SPONSORED. Do you have 150 spare wheels in your mechanic's truck?

Also... Pros don't get a choice, it's in their contract to ride gear provided by their sponsors, lulz.



You need to know the pros personally to know why they use their team's sponsor provided wheels? lulz

Why did Team Cofidis ride a light weight climbing bike from Orbea on flat races when all their competitors are riding aero bikes? Do you need to know a Cofidis rider personally to know, the reason is because they didn't have a choice, they rode whatever Orbea told them to ride?
Black felt tip markers and electrical tape seems to solve this problem.
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Old 07-05-17, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Carbon clinchers: No.

Let's think this through... you want carbon for weight savings. You may think you want carbon to allow for deep aero wheels, but these are possible in alu as well. They are just heavier.

Carbon rims do not brake as well as alu - either wet or dry - this is unavoidable, regardless of the pads; I've tried multiple pads on carbon. Plus the well-documented heat dissipation problems. Carbon tubular rims handle heat dissipation somewhat better than carbon clinchers.

If your objective is elite-level performance wheels, then you'll be on tubulars. Clincher rims cannot match the weight and structural benefits of tubular rims, regardless of price. If you want superior braking and heat shedding for general riding, then alu.

Bottom line: carbon clinchers are an awkward kludge that seemingly have no function.
10 years ago, perhaps. But not today.

Today you can get high temp resin wheels with great braking tracks, and swissstop black pads for carbon, and they stop as good as alloy when dry, and almost as good when wet.

I have a set of Roval CLX40's I picked up on ebay for around $1k with new 25mm tubeless schwalbe pro ones (already installed). Added a new set of pads and some titanium skewers (~80g lighter than Roval skewers) and I am loving them.

Light enough (1375 grams), aero enough (at 40mm), and just a great all around wheel set.
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Old 07-05-17, 03:50 PM
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Ummm.. you can pick up a sub-1,000 gram carbon tubular wheelset for less than $600. New.

Not only would you shave a pound of rotating mass, but you'd have the tubular advantages of no pinch flats, no rim strip failures, and the ability to ride your tires at pressures anywhere between 50-170 psi.

Plus tubular rims are far more resistant to impacts, and if necessary, you can ride a flat tubular in relative safely.

Why is everyone so fussed about getting little glue on their hands?
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