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Tubeless tire set up disaster and mess. Help!

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Tubeless tire set up disaster and mess. Help!

Old 07-04-17, 01:23 PM
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Tubeless tire set up disaster and mess. Answered: I'm a moron!

Hey all, happy 4th of July.

tl;dr : road tubeless tire and rim combo blew off while being set up. Made a mess and blew my eardrum out. Need help figuring out why before I attempt it again.

So last night I took the plunge and started converting to tubeless on my Domane. I had acquired all the various bits over the prior couple of weeks, and decided that, since I had the next day off, I would do lit ast night so I could ride them today. Didn't go as planned!

I got the the front tire mounted, and checked the bead was solid all the way around. Inflated and deflated it a couple times. Seemed well sealed and locked in. Was holding are surprisingly well without sealant. So I injected sealant, and put about 20psi in and wobbled them around to distribute it, etc. Didn't see any leaks, really, just a little oozing by the bead, as expected. Seemed well sealed. So I left it for a bit and came back and it had lost a little air. Put more air in, about 40 psi, and flopped it around some more. Came back a bit later and pressure had held! So I started putting more air in...and then disaster struck!

At around 80 psi the tire blew off the rim! Sealant everywhere, and I think it punctured my left eardrum it was so loud. (No, seriously, I'm going to go to urgent care later and have it checked out.) So I need input on what I did wrong.

The rims are bontrager Affinity Comps, which are supposed to be tubeless ready. The tires are Challenge Strada Biancas, which are also tubeless ready. I used Stan's 21mm yellow tape, two layers, fit well and didn't wander into the bead hook area as far as I could see.

Now, here's one thing: Bontrager has their own tubeless rim strip, but after talking to the guy at the local trek store, he said I didn't need to use it, stans was fine, and he used it all the time. I also couldn't find ANYTHING online that said the rims HAD to be used with the bontrager rim strips. So I proceeded, since he didn't have the rim strips in stock, and in his experience I didn't need them.

So, can someone tell me what the heck happened? I didn't even know this was a possibility if the tire and rim were locked together well enough to not really showing much weeping of the sealant!

I'm not going to attempt this again until I have an idea of what happened. Actually, might just give it up as an idea entirely.

Has anyone else had experience with using Stan's tape on bontrager rims? Has anyone else had the tire blow off like this for apparently no reason? Help!

Last edited by Wheever; 07-04-17 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 07-04-17, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Wheever
The tires are Challenge Strada Biancas, which are also tubeless ready.
Where did you read that?

I can't find any information saying that the vulcanized clincher version is tubeless-compatible, and the polyester hand-glued version definitely isn't.
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Old 07-04-17, 01:39 PM
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I really have no idea, but it could be this. The tire and rim should both be suitable but not perfectly sized for each other. Maybe the tire needs a rim hook bead, but you don't have one. Is that the case?
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Old 07-04-17, 02:14 PM
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Strada Biancas are "open tubular," not to be confused with tubeless. Tire blew off because it needs a tube.
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Old 07-04-17, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope
Strada Biancas are "open tubular," not to be confused with tubeless. Tire blew off because it needs a tube.
Oh dear. Lol. Well, that WOULD explain it, now wouldn't it? I was certain they were. Well, lovely tires, but I guess I'll have to wait to try tubeless. Lol. I'm not as bright as I think, I guess!

Thanks for pointing that out!
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Old 07-04-17, 02:57 PM
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Cue psimet
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Old 07-04-17, 07:41 PM
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Uh. Except the Strada Bianca on the rear wheel, with a tube, just popped off.

It's been on there for a couple hours. It seemed fine. Came back into the room and it had popped off the rim! Umm? Never seen that happen before. Do these tires just not like these rims?
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Old 07-04-17, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Wheever
Uh. Except the Strada Bianca on the rear wheel, with a tube, just popped off.

It's been on there for a couple hours. It seemed fine. Came back into the room and it had popped off the rim! Umm? Never seen that happen before. Do these tires just not like these rims?
Do the rims have beads? If the insides of the walls are straight, a clincher likely won't hold to it.
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Old 07-04-17, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Do the rims have beads? If the insides of the walls are straight, a clincher likely won't hold to it.
They do. But these tires are so weird: When the tube is deflated, they are literally FLAT, not tire shaped, so the tread hangs over the edge of the rim. Doesn't want to be tire shaped at all. Lol. Makes it extraordinarily difficult to see what's happening at the bead and hook. I think I just didn't get the bead seated correctly, because of that.

When I remounted it, I put a little more air in the tube than I usually do, to give it more shape as I worked around the rim, and it's holding pressure fine now. Very strange tires. I hope they're worth the effort.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:07 PM
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Uh. The front tire just blew off. The whole tube split. Didn't look like a pinch flat, it looks like the sidewall just blew out. The entire sidewall of the tire was sticking out horizontally!

I'm going to return these and try something else. I don't think they work with these rims, my stupid misreading of their not tubeless nature not withstanding. At least when the rear popped off the tube was intact. The front tube turned to confetti for about half the circumfrence of the tire! Yikes!
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Old 07-05-17, 05:56 AM
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The Strada Bianca has a low max pressure, 90psi according to their site. I wonder if you might have overinflated them?
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Old 07-05-17, 06:01 AM
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Are the rims sound and not damaged? Chaadster has a point regarding inflation.

One other option...bum tires happen, although getting two of them is suspicious. I'd sooner suspect something wrong with the rim or mounting.
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Old 07-05-17, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
The Strada Bianca has a low max pressure, 90psi according to their site. I wonder if you might have overinflated them?
Actually says 90-130 right on the sidewall.

I dunno, I've been reading around and some people have the same problems I'm having with the sidewall randomly blowing out. I am ABSOLUTELY certain this wasn't a pinch. I took great pains to recheck it after the rear popped off. It might just be they don't like these rims--or the rims don't like them.

I am now too nervous to ever ride these tires, and am returning them posthaste and putting the GP 4ks back on. A shame, as they are so lovely, and supposed to be supple and grippy and tough. Oh well. Live and learn.
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Old 07-05-17, 05:07 PM
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Buy these and go tubeless. You've already done the hard part (tubeless rim tape + tubeless valves + sealant); you just need an actual tubeless tire. Plus, it'll ride/handle/lower rolling resistance than the GP 4ks. Not to mention the flat resistance, which in my opinion is the biggest reason to go tubeless in the first place.
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Old 07-05-17, 05:29 PM
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Wow, so sorry to hear of your challenges, and while I sympathize and don't really have any proper input as to why your clinchers would have blown off the rim (like you, I'd simply cut bait at this point with those puppies), I'd agree with Rnav and just get proper tubeless tires. I'm on probably my 8th set of tires and 3rd set of tubeless wheels (I come and go), they are simply incredible and don't require nearly as much attention as seemingly you're putting in.

I've simply mounted each tire, seated the bead once using a compressor, then removed air, added 1oz sealant, and pumped back up with nary a problem.

I hope you give them a chance and good luck!
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Old 07-05-17, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RNAV
Buy these and go tubeless. You've already done the hard part (tubeless rim tape + tubeless valves + sealant); you just need an actual tubeless tire. Plus, it'll ride/handle/lower rolling resistance than the GP 4ks. Not to mention the flat resistance, which in my opinion is the biggest reason to go tubeless in the first place.
That is exactly what I've done! (Well, I bought the S-ones, but close enough.) I'm waiting patiently (lol) for them to arrive. I get enough little flats riding around this stupid city that the flat resistance is really compelling. (Usually pieces of wire from blown tires.)

Honestly, after reading about the Strada Biancas, and the problems people (sometimes) have with them, I'd never feel comfortable with them on my bike. There was no reason at all that I could see for them blowing off except some inherent incompatibility between the bead and the rim.

Thanks for your input!
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Old 07-05-17, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by robbyville
Wow, so sorry to hear of your challenges, and while I sympathize and don't really have any proper input as to why your clinchers would have blown off the rim (like you, I'd simply cut bait at this point with those puppies), I'd agree with Rnav and just get proper tubeless tires. I'm on probably my 8th set of tires and 3rd set of tubeless wheels (I come and go), they are simply incredible and don't require nearly as much attention as seemingly you're putting in.

I've simply mounted each tire, seated the bead once using a compressor, then removed air, added 1oz sealant, and pumped back up with nary a problem.

I hope you give them a chance and good luck!
That is exactly my plan. I'm very excited to run tubeless, and have ordered up some proper tubeless tires. Can't wait for them to get here.

Gotta say, putting the GP 4ks back on my bike made me a little sad. I was looking to move to the next level, at least puncture-wise. Thanks for your encouragement!
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Old 07-06-17, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Wheever
That is exactly what I've done! (Well, I bought the S-ones, but close enough.) I'm waiting patiently (lol) for them to arrive. I get enough little flats riding around this stupid city that the flat resistance is really compelling. (Usually pieces of wire from blown tires.)
Good choice. I've been riding them since spring and I love 'em - I don't think that I'd buy another bike that couldn't accommodate their width. I actually had my first non-sealing puncture on them yesterday, but totally my fault because I hadn't checked the sealant since installing them - it was dried up in there.

Where did you find them? Had I known that I'd like them so much, I would have picked up more when Art's was selling them at $30 a pop, but I've only seen the new version (G-One Speed) since, at a best price in the $50 neighborhood.
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Old 07-06-17, 08:14 AM
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I had been using Schwalbe One Tubeless from 2013 to 2015, for approximately 12k miles. I had similar problems on multiple Schwalbe Ones. A couple of time there would be a "big fart" during the ride and the lost 20-40 psi. Finally I gave up tubeless. You'll find many people experiencing similar problems according amazon's review on Schwalbe One tubeless during late 2015 and early 2016.
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Old 07-06-17, 08:20 AM
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I've been running S-Ones since March of last year, and like them pretty well myself.

I have them on my gravel/winter bike, and for SE MI dirt roads, I have no complaints. Even on packed snow roads, they have gripped beyond my expectations.

They're acceptable on pavement, and comfy, although don't hold high speeds (>18mph) as nicely as, say, 23c Pro Ones. I do run the P1s on 19.4mm bsw AC Argents, so the airflow is probably better on that combo than it is on the 30c S1s on 18mm bsw AC Victory30s, which may account for some of the discrepancy, though both are 30mm deep.

I've found the S1s seem to soak up sealant initially, and so would recommend to either overfill a bit on setup, or make that first time checkup sooner than one might think, like in 4-6 weeks. After that first take-up, sealant seems to last longer.
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Old 07-06-17, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Good choice. I've been riding them since spring and I love 'em - I don't think that I'd buy another bike that couldn't accommodate their width. I actually had my first non-sealing puncture on them yesterday, but totally my fault because I hadn't checked the sealant since installing them - it was dried up in there.

Where did you find them? Had I known that I'd like them so much, I would have picked up more when Art's was selling them at $30 a pop, but I've only seen the new version (G-One Speed) since, at a best price in the $50 neighborhood.
I got them at chain reaction. Cheapest I could find them, at the moment, plus a $10 off coupon. Came out to $110 for the pair, shipped. The G-one speeds I couldn't find for less than $89/each. Yikes! Where have you seen them for $50?

Nice to hear a good recc for the S-ones from a BF member! (The reviews I read all said "if you can fit 'em, buy 'em!")
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Old 07-06-17, 09:33 AM
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^^^ Merlin
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Old 07-06-17, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
^^^ Merlin
Aw, how did I miss that?
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Old 07-07-17, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by redfooj
Cue psimet
Put a tube in it.

Considering my latest podcast has been trying to be about the bro deal but keeps falling through I am sure we'll end up just bashing on tubeless here soon. Just have to find someone around here that has used it and still thinks it's a good idea. Alas....few and far between.
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Old 07-07-17, 01:47 PM
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What about those of us for whom tubeless is less of a choice than it is a necessity? The only clincher I've experienced with comparable puncture resistance to tubeless is the Conti Gator Hardshell, and they ride like hot garbage. By the time one of my tubeless tires is ready to be replaced, there might be as many as 30 little "weepers," spots where goatheads got in and the sealant is filling the holes. Even if I were magically 50% luckier, that would be 15 flats. Per tire. I've no desire to run a tire thick enough to prevent those punctures, because the ride quality would be terrible.

My wife doesn't get to ride much-- she has about 600 miles in this year. She still runs tubes, she rides with me, and she's gotten 5 flats this year-- in 600 miles-- and it was goatheads every single time. As I said in an earlier post, if you don't have goatheads where you live, be very thankful. But for those of us that do, tubeless is the best available option.
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