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Hit & Run Gopro|Caught

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Hit & Run Gopro|Caught

Old 07-10-17, 09:47 PM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by adamhenry View Post
Who wrote that headline? An ESL student? Cyclist rammed by SUV driver or SUV rammed Cyclist would have been a lot more accurate. Cyclist rammed SUV is just a$$ backwards.
Possibly a typo or editing error. ie. Cyclist slammed by SUV....

The by omitted in error or accidentally removed when editing. Stuff happens.
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Old 07-10-17, 10:05 PM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Possibly a typo or editing error. ie. Cyclist slammed by SUV....

The by omitted in error or accidentally removed when editing. Stuff happens.
And proofreading will catch all of that. I learned to do that in elementary school.
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Old 07-10-17, 10:30 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by adamhenry View Post
And proofreading will catch all of that. I learned to do that in elementary school.
Not for nothing, but the notion of someone in publishing being expected to know how to write proper English is quaint at best anymore.

We used to have curmudgeonly editors pounding on their writers to produce decent prose to some kind of journalistic standard.

Now we have spoiled clueless hipster wannabe's lounging around coffee shops banging out blogs and vlogs and whatever other half formed thoughts they may be momentarily enamored with.
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Old 07-11-17, 12:04 AM
  #179  
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Looks to be a classic drunk driving behavior by the motorist.

Having been rear ended by a drunk driver many years ago, I have become more observant about traffic that is behind me.

If I am going slow up hill, I tend to be tight to the right.

I also usually ride single file if there is traffic coming up from behind.

If someone wants to take a cyclist out, it doesn't matter where you are on the road , its not going to end well.
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Old 07-11-17, 01:34 AM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
Sounds like victim blaming to me . She shouldn't have worn that skirt.

"blaming"? semantics then.

were i on the jury , would the riding configuration relieve the driver (or the hypothetical brazileiros) of culpability? not 1%

could the rider have done something to guard himself by lessening the likelihood of ticking off a maniac? absolutely

wear what you want... do what you do. the graveyard is full of heroes.
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Old 07-11-17, 04:00 AM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
DUI is one common reason to not stop. Lack of insurance is another. And just being a dbag in general who feels entitled to not be responsible for ones actions is another.

Hard to say which is the case here.

Sounds like a definite #3, but he could well be all three!

I'm amazed the rider got off so lightly(so to speak).
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Old 07-11-17, 09:19 AM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by f4rrest View Post
I posted a funny animated gif with a LOL and you assumed incorrectly that's how I ride.
I'm sorry, that was not my intent. I should have worded that better.
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Old 07-11-17, 09:37 AM
  #183  
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You've got to admit the perp is an extremely patient man. Some dirtbag cyclist standing at the side of the road with his girlfriend THREW a bicycle at his moving car! That was his story. Most such victims would have stopped and yelled. Maybe called the police. But not this man. He drove on home. Let bygones be bygones. A real saint. (How do I turn off the sarcasm setting?)

If not for a well-placed GoPro, this would end up a very different story. I once had a pickup literally, physically run me off the road. His right wheels ended up going off the right shoulder just in front of me. But law enforcement wouldn't enforce the law because I had no witnesses -- even though I caught up with the perp and he admitted going after me!

I've never been motivated enough to wear a GoPro and I wouldn't know when to turn it on -- the battery life is pretty limited compared to the length of my rides.

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Old 07-11-17, 12:10 PM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
I've never been motivated enough to wear a GoPro and I wouldn't know when to turn it on -- the battery life is pretty limited compared to the length of my rides.
Ubiquitous wearable and security cameras are eventually going to cause a revolution (or at least a slow evolution) in law enforcement.

They will end up being the impartial unbiased corroborating witness that never seems to exist.

This will be a huge influence in how the police conduct themselves. And it will be big in investigations and prosecutions. And in defenses too.
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Old 07-11-17, 12:22 PM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by redfooj View Post
"blaming"? semantics then.

were i on the jury , would the riding configuration relieve the driver (or the hypothetical brazileiros) of culpability? not 1%

could the rider have done something to guard himself by lessening the likelihood of ticking off a maniac? absolutely

wear what you want... do what you do. the graveyard is full of heroes.
The roadway where this incident is a no passing zone...the car driver had no business passing anything in a no passing zone. Single file, double file, it really doesn't matter. No passing in a no passing zone.


Ask a Tennessee cop.
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Old 07-11-17, 09:11 PM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by popeye View Post
I'm sorry, that was not my intent. I should have worded that better.
Oops, I'm guilty of assuming. Sorry.
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Old 07-12-17, 08:54 AM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by RJM View Post
The roadway where this incident is a no passing zone...the car driver had no business passing anything in a no passing zone. Single file, double file, it really doesn't matter. No passing in a no passing zone. Ask a Tennessee cop.
I looked at some photos of Natchez Trace Parkway it seems RJM is correct. The center line in various parts of the road is a single dashed yellow or a dashed/solid yellow .... so a double-yellow (as pertained to the specific site of the accident) would indeed by a No-Passing zone.

(https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...=0&FORM=IARRTH)

Even the guy in the white truck was breaking the law.

This also means that all the .... People, let’s call them ... who tried to blame the riders for not pulling over have Zero justification.

There is no reason a cyclist should pull over to let a car by in a No-Passing zone. The only driver who would try to pass there would be ... an impatient fool or a homicidal maniac. Seems to me, that is what we saw here.
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Old 07-12-17, 09:23 AM
  #188  
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Update from Middle Tennessee: Anecdotal reports of this same vehicle striking or nearly striking cyclists over a period of months are starting to come out of the woodwork. Of course, this is the first report substantiated by a camera. He probably won't pay a price for the other incidents, but you can be sure that people will be watching out for him (at least until he gets a different car).
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Old 07-12-17, 09:27 AM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by Philly215 View Post
Hmm. Didn't read all the way through?

"(a) (1) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, except under any of the following situations:"
It's totally irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the guy was riding a unicycle down the double yellow line with his wiener out, throwing bricks at oncoming cars. A person who intentionally hits him with 3000+ pounds of steel should be convicted of a major crime.

Anyone who even calls into question the actions of the cyclist should be ashamed of themselves.
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Old 07-12-17, 09:37 AM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
Update from Middle Tennessee: Anecdotal reports of this same vehicle striking or nearly striking cyclists over a period of months are starting to come out of the woodwork. Of course, this is the first report substantiated by a camera. He probably won't pay a price for the other incidents, but you can be sure that people will be watching out for him (at least until he gets a different car).
Hopefully these reports will make their way to the prosecutors office. As noted, they probably can't be charged, but can be factored in sentencing, and/or plea bargaining.
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Old 07-12-17, 09:54 AM
  #191  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
Anyone who even calls into question the actions of the cyclist should be ashamed of themselves.
Quoted because ... well, duh, folks. Come on.

Basically the cyclists were the victim of a sniper. The rider who was hit was effectively shot in the back by a crazy person.

Lincoln could have stayed home. Kennedy could have stayed home. Reagan could have stayed home.


Hmmm ... why is it I have Never heard those arguments before?
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Old 07-12-17, 10:29 AM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
Not for nothing, but the notion of someone in publishing being expected to know how to write proper English is quaint at best anymore.

We used to have curmudgeonly editors pounding on their writers to produce decent prose to some kind of journalistic standard.

Now we have spoiled clueless hipster wannabe's lounging around coffee shops banging out blogs and vlogs and whatever other half formed thoughts they may be momentarily enamored with.
It isn't the hipster's fault. People used to pay for newspapers, and advertisers used to pay to advertise in them. No one can afford curmudgeons since news became free.
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Old 07-12-17, 10:36 AM
  #193  
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Hopefully these reports will make their way to the prosecutors office. As noted, they probably can't be charged, but can be factored in sentencing, and/or plea bargaining.
Might also be relevant to intent . . . although the defense would have a pretty easy time asking them "did you see the driver of the car?" "Do you know how many black volvo SUVs are registered in Tennessee?" (althogh if there's only 1 or 2 that would be hilarious).
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Old 07-12-17, 10:56 AM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by drewguy View Post
Might also be relevant to intent . . . although the defense would have a pretty easy time asking them "did you see the driver of the car?" "Do you know how many black volvo SUVs are registered in Tennessee?" (althogh if there's only 1 or 2 that would be hilarious).
It's borderline whether these reports would be allowed at trial (there are rules about introducing prior conduct), plus it's doubtful there will ever be a trial. So the chief value is in motivating the prosecutor to play hardball in plea negotiations.

In all likelihood, the biggest punishment this jerk will get will be in the form of a significant legal bill, for getting this worked down to negotiated plea. Plus, it seems that the amount of press the case is getting will cost the guy his job.

In any case, I'm sure he's learned his lesson and will check carefully for cameras next time.
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Old 07-12-17, 11:00 AM
  #195  
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Originally Posted by memebag View Post
You aren't grasping that in Texas, at least, the double yellow zones won't allow you enough time to pass. They exist where you can't see far enough to know an oncoming vehicle won't meet you in their lane. If you can see far enough to do what you describe it isn't a double yellow.


You're not grasping that the double lines are marked for passing cars moving near the speed limit.


A very slow moving vehicle (farm tractor, bicycle, etc.) alters the equation and the necessary sight distance.


This is a number of states allow you to cross a double yellow line to pass a slow moving vehicle when it is safe to do so under the circumstances.


This link explains the issue. And does the math for the scenario I'm pointing out.


http://iamtraffic.org/engineering/cr...e-yellow-line/
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Old 07-12-17, 11:23 AM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
You're not grasping that the double lines are marked for passing cars moving near the speed limit.


A very slow moving vehicle (farm tractor, bicycle, etc.) alters the equation and the necessary sight distance.


This is a number of states allow you to cross a double yellow line to pass a slow moving vehicle when it is safe to do so under the circumstances.


This link explains the issue. And does the math for the scenario I'm pointing out.


Crossing A Double Yellow Line - i am traffic
That link does not explain the issue or do the math. It confirms my position.
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Old 07-12-17, 11:23 AM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
You're not grasping that the double lines are marked for passing cars moving near the speed limit.


A very slow moving vehicle (farm tractor, bicycle, etc.) alters the equation and the necessary sight distance.


This is a number of states allow you to cross a double yellow line to pass a slow moving vehicle when it is safe to do so under the circumstances.


This link explains the issue. And FN 2 does the math for the scenario I'm pointing out.


Crossing A Double Yellow Line - i am traffic
Not in Tennessee. This is copied and pasted from a facebook post where a friend asked the TN Highway Patrol (and many other agencies local to me, which all had about the same response. In fact a local police officer's response was "No passing period.") about passing in a no passing zone and whether or not a car can legally pass a bicycle in a no passing zone. It is from the Legislative Liaison and Staff Attorney from Commissioner Purkey's Office from the TN Department of Safety and Homeland Security.


Thank you for reaching out to us for your question and I hope my response is helpful.


Pursuant to T.C.A. 55-8-121, 55-8-119 and 55-8-117 a vehicle may not pass another vehicle in a no passing zone designated by the department of transportation.

A vehicle is defines in T.C.A. 55-8-101 as "every device in, upon or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, excepting devices used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks" this would include a bicycle.

Furthermore, T.C.A. 55-8-172 says that " Every person riding a bicycle or electric bicycle, as defined in § 55-8-301, upon a roadway is granted all of the rights and is subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this chapter and chapter 10, parts 1-5 of this title, except as to those provisions of this chapter and chapter 10, parts 1-5 of this title that by their nature can have no application"

In conclusion, our interpretation is that a vehicle cannot pass any other type of vehicle in a no passing zone. A car cannot pass a bicyclist in a no passing zone under our interpretation. I understand this is a lot of information and would be more than happy to walk you through all of the statutes if you would like to call me! If you have any additional questions or if I can help any more please let me know.
I believe NC has a statute where you can actually pass in a no passing zone with provisions and it outlines a specific distance that a motorist should pass. Not sure what other states are, but here is a graphic. It doesn't specifically mention if those with 3 feet laws give the ability to pass a bicycle or slow moving traffic in a no passing zone though...to find that out I would imagine looking up each state's statutes on that would be in order.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
bikepassingmap_1216.jpg (23.2 KB, 67 views)
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Old 07-12-17, 11:42 AM
  #198  
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Originally Posted by RJM View Post
Not in Tennessee. This is copied and pasted from a facebook post where a friend asked the TN Highway Patrol (and many other agencies local to me, which all had about the same response. In fact a local police officer's response was "No passing period.") about passing in a no passing zone and whether or not a car can legally pass a bicycle in a no passing zone. It is from the Legislative Liaison and Staff Attorney from Commissioner Purkey's Office from the TN Department of Safety and Homeland Security.


Thank you for reaching out to us for your question and I hope my response is helpful.


Pursuant to T.C.A. 55-8-121, 55-8-119 and 55-8-117 a vehicle may not pass another vehicle in a no passing zone designated by the department of transportation.

A vehicle is defines in T.C.A. 55-8-101 as "every device in, upon or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, excepting devices used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks" this would include a bicycle.

Furthermore, T.C.A. 55-8-172 says that " Every person riding a bicycle or electric bicycle, as defined in § 55-8-301, upon a roadway is granted all of the rights and is subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this chapter and chapter 10, parts 1-5 of this title, except as to those provisions of this chapter and chapter 10, parts 1-5 of this title that by their nature can have no application"

In conclusion, our interpretation is that a vehicle cannot pass any other type of vehicle in a no passing zone. A car cannot pass a bicyclist in a no passing zone under our interpretation. I understand this is a lot of information and would be more than happy to walk you through all of the statutes if you would like to call me! If you have any additional questions or if I can help any more please let me know. .

Even in Tennessee, and other states, that don't specifically allow for crossing a double yellow to pass slow moving vehicles, it is still a matter of interpretation.


You can move across a double yellow to pass an "obstruction" Not much of a stretch to say a bike moving 5mph in a 45 zone is an "obstruction." Cops and Courts have reached that conclusion.


So in spite of the opinion you posted, 1) if you safely pass a cyclist moving a few feet over a double yellow, where you have plenty of sight distance to do so, it's really unlikely you'd get ticketed, and 2) if you did, you'd have a pretty good argument to beat the ticket.


The fact that some Cops interpret the law as reflected in your post, point out the need for legislation to expressly permit crossing solid yellow lines, when safe to do so, to pass slow moving bikes.


It is in everyone's best interest. It doesn't unnecessarily hold up traffic, and more importantly, it doesn't encourage motorists to pass cyclists too closely.




All that said, this whole discussion of crossing a solid yellow is a tangent to the thread, and in no way intended as a criticism of the cyclist here, or a defense of the driver.
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Old 07-12-17, 11:49 AM
  #199  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Even in Tennessee, and other states, that don't specifically allow for crossing a double yellow to pass slow moving vehicles, it is still a matter of interpretation.


You can move across a double yellow to pass an "obstruction" Not much of a stretch to say a bike moving 5mph in a 45 zone is an "obstruction." Cops and Courts have reached that conclusion.


So in spite of the opinion you posted, 1) if you safely pass a cyclist moving a few feet over a double yellow, where you have plenty of sight distance to do so, it's really unlikely you'd get ticketed, and 2) if you did, you'd have a pretty good argument to beat the ticket.


The fact that some Cops interpret the law as reflected in your post, point out the need for legislation to expressly permit crossing solid yellow lines, when safe to do so, to pass slow moving bikes.


It is in everyone's best interest. It doesn't unnecessarily hold up traffic, and more importantly, it doesn't encourage motorists to pass cyclists too closely.




All that said, this whole discussion of crossing a solid yellow is a tangent to the thread, and in no way intended as a criticism of the cyclist here, or a defense of the driver.
I don't believe the cops and courts in Tennessee have reached the conclusion, and apparently the cops and courts in my area haven't reached the same one you have either. It is illegal to pass a cyclist in a no passing zone in Tennessee, which I believe I have demonstrated. Now, absolutism we all know is not practiced by the courts, cops, drivers, pedestrians, ect, and many people will drive right by an officer going ten above the speed limit with no punishment for doing so, but that doesn't make it legal to do so. The bottom line is that it is illegal to pass where that driver "attempted to pass." I put that in quotes because he clearly hit that cyclist on purpose.
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Old 07-12-17, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by memebag View Post
That link does not explain the issue or do the math. It confirms my position.


Apparently neither basic algebra, nor reading comprehension are strong suits:




All quotes from the link:
"
Consider a driver planning a pass on a 45 mph road. Observation of real-world behavior shows that drivers take an average of seven-seconds to pass a 15 mph bicyclist (with a speed differential of 10 mph), but an average of ten seconds to pass a 35 mph car. A seven second pass at 25 mph covers about 256 feet worst case (ignoring acceleration). By comparison, a ten second pass at 45 mph covers about 660 feet. An oncoming 45 mph driver travels 462 feet in seven seconds and 660 feet in 10 seconds. The required safe passing sight distance in the average bicyclist case is therefore about 600 feet shorter than in the average motorist case. Also, the slower passing speed is safer should the passing driver misjudge; the oncoming driver will have more time and distance to reduce speed and “cooperate” with the pass as is often the case with passing a stationary obstruction. While the law prohibits a passing driver from interfering with an oncoming driver and requiring him to slow, this interference is much less dangerous when passing a slow bicyclist than when passing a fast motorist. This is why there are so few crashes involving oncoming vehicles when drivers are passing cyclists on two-lane roads"


"The formulas and tables used to determine where to place solid centerlines assumed that the vehicle being passed was traveling near the maximum posted speed limit1"


In most of the United States, a motorist is not clearly permitted to cross a solid centerline to pass a cyclist when it is safe to do so. Yet practically all drivers do so rather than continue to follow the cyclist at reduced speed. Drivers recognize that current striping policies for no-passing zones are overly restrictive in the context of low-speed vehicles. Mathematical analysis bears this out. For instance, safely passing a motorist traveling at 35 mph on a 45 mph road requires a sight distance 600 feet longer than passing a 15 mph bicyclist on the same road 2.




We propose that prohibitions on crossing solid centerlines be relaxed by adding an exception for passing vehicles traveling at sufficiently low-speed. In Ohio, for example, this speed threshold is half the maximum posted speed limit. Such an exception would be applicable to passing tractors, construction vehicles, and horse-drawn carriages, in addition to bicycles [emphasis added]
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