Shimano Ultegra Di2 Synchronized Shift programming issue
 

Having just installed synchronized shifting on both my and my wife's bike, I'm not really a fan of where the default programs shifts when going from up the cassette, harder to easier on the FD. In fully synchronized mode, the default is to change from the large crank ring to the smaller when you are on the 2nd gear on the RD. I thought it would be easy to just change this so it changes when I am on the 3rd or 4th gear on the RD.

My bike is Dura Ace 9150 and I was able to easily do this. However, on my wife's Ultegra bike, the E-Tube customize software does not allow this change. I have a standard crank and she has a compact but I eliminated that but setting her bike to a standard but I could still not change it. When changing "down" from the 50 to the 34, the E-Tube software only allows you to change from 2nd gear to 1st gear on the RD but then you are seriously cross chained. Even with the default being the 2nd gear, you are fairly cross chained. We both have the same 11-28 cassette.

Has anyone encountered the same? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

There is an interaction between the two shift points; you can't separate them by too much. I've seen this go a little buggy before; I worked around it by creating a new shift profile, which seemed untainted by the problem.

I'm interested in this, I might spring for the newer battery just so I can have synchronized shifting. Can you give a better explanation of how it works? From my research it looks like when you are in the small ring and you get to say the 8th cog (smaller cog, I call the largest cog gear 1), it will shift to the big ring in front and shift the rear up 2 or 3 gears, say from 8 to 5. Is this anywhere near accurate?

I was able to create the shift profile I wanted on the tablet but then I tried to apply it to the bike, it wouldn't saying it was an invalid configuration. All I am trying to do is to slide the shift down the cassette a gear or two and I maintained the same shift pattern. The default is when the RD gets to gear 2, the next gear change up changes from the large ring to the small ring on the FD and from the 2nd gear to the 4th gear on the RD. I am trying to maintain the same behavior, just sliding it down so when I am in 3rd gear on the RD and I move to the next easier gear, the FD changes to the small and the RD from the 3rd to the 5th.

I also tried sliding the up down a gear first but it didn't make any difference. I thought by creating what I wanted on the tablet, that was creating a new shift profile but when I applied it to the bike it didn't work.

Is there a firmware difference between the DA and Ultegra bikes or is all firmware up to date for that particular model?

I wonder if the Ultegra 8050 behaves like the wife's Ultegra 6870 or like the OP's DA 9150.


-Tim-

Yes, there are 2 modes, semi synchronized and fully synchronized. Semi synchronized automatically shifts the RD when the FD is changed. If you are in the big ring on the FD and change to the small ring, the RD with change 1, 2, or 3 gears depending on you have it set up. The default is 2 so if you are in 3rd gear on the RD, changing the FD to the small ring will change the RD to 5th. Going from the small to the big on the FD does the opposite on the RD, 5th to 3rd.

Fully synchronized is similar but works but automatically changes the FD as the RD is changed. If you are in the big ring on the FD and click to go from 2nd gear to 1st, the FD is automatically changed to the small ring and the rear is changed from 2nd to 4th. Going the other way, I think the default is 6th or 7th on the rear, let's assume 7th. When you click to go to 8th on the RD when in the small on the FD, the FD is changed to the big ring and the RD goes from 7th to 5th. It pretty much changes your bike from a 2x11 setup to a 1x22. You can still change the FD but if you do, the RD is not automatically changed when in this mode.

Latest firmware on all devices. I have an external battery and she has an internal, our junctions are the same. Hopefully the 8050 will work the same as the 9150.

Thanks.

OT but are you going to upgrade her to 8050?

I ask because I am thinking of trying an 8050 rear derailleur with a 6870 front derailleur because the 8050 supports 34 tooth cassette while the 6870 only supports 32. I'm running a 36 tooth cassette right now. No problems shifting with the 6870 but I'd like to try it and see if there is a noticeable difference.

My concern is a mashup of 6870 and 8050. I"m not sure that firmware will allow it.

I just installed 9150 Di2 on both my bikes and have no clue, nor have I even looked for, how synchronized shifting works. Maybe I should check youtube :)
One bike has the conventional, underneath the stem junction box, while the other, inside the bar end.

So you're saying I can put a 36 tooth on my Ultegra 6870 Di2? I'm a clydedale and could use a little more low gear.

34 tooth cassettes are supported by the new 8000-series Di2 RD.

It still may work with the 6870, but the firmware won't know it's a 34.

I have 11/32 now. Wouldn't mind changing the 32 for a 34 just for the harder hills. I'm a clydesdale so climbing isn't my strong suit.

Do you have a long cage RD? With a long cage you could probably do a 34. My wife has as short cage but after talking to the bike mechanic guys I know, they say for many people they can get an 11/32 to work on the short cage with a compact crank. At that point your ratio is almost 1 to 1, 34 to 32. If you have a long cage RD, I'd try the 34. Tighten down the B screw but I suspect it will work.

Yes, I definitely recommend checking it out. Both S1 and S2 have their merits. Paired with a Garmin 1000, some useful stuff like knowing when it is going to shift.

I don't have 10 posts yet so I can't post the link but google Shimano E-Tube compatibility chart and you'll find what you need to get automatic shifting work. You may need a new battery, DN100 or DN101 and WU111.

The thread was about shift points and I'm sorry to have taken it off topic.

A few questions were asked and so I'll say that it is a Niner RLT 9 RDO using a SRAM PG-1170 11-36 cassette with Ultegra 6870 Di2 group. Rear derailleur is a GS mid-cage and chainrings are 50-34. E-Tube was set to use an 11-32 cassette. The B screw had to be turned in quite a bit. I use every gear and crosschain it all the time. I beat the crud out of the bike on gravel and mixed surface rides and it shifts flawlessly. Whether it will work on any other bike is unknown to me.

If anyone wants to read more they can look at http://www.bikeforums.net/recreation...rdo-build.html.

I brought it up because I wondered if moving from a 6870 rear derailleur to an R8050 would change the shift points as mentioned in the first post.


-Tim-

To get back to the original thread, I have confirmed the Ultegra behavior on a different bike. Same issue, you can adjust the point at which the RD will shift from going to the small ring on the FD to the big ring, but not the point it will shift on the RD when going from the big ring on the FD to the small ring in the front. It will always do the shift in 2nd gear so the drive is quite cross chained. Maybe Shimano will fix this with a SW update but that is the difference between Ultegra 6870 and Dura Ace 9150. Maybe someone who has Dura Ace 9070 can try the same and add to the thread.

i have ultegra rx805 rear derailleur, same problem.. even with e-tube 3.4 i can only modify the point at which full sync shifts the front derailleur as a reACTION o shifting the rear derailleur.. to heavier downhill gearing and not the point (moving rear derailleur) to a more easier uphill gear, i too was struggling with the cross chaining at the 2nd cog rear big cog front (uphill) so the solution is different.
adjusting the front derailleur micro adjust settings seems to solve the rub...

So your google search showed you a very old thread on the subject?

I'm not certain it's quite your issue. But maybe you should make a new thread and exactly describe your issue. Just so there is no confusion with any of the old stuff in the thread.

Have you been to this site?.... https://bettershifting.com/ There is a lot of information here.

Welcome to BF!

I have Ultegra 12-sp Di2 and have not tried to change that shift point. So, no idea if I have that behavior. I agree there would seem to be no reason not to allow this behavior. But I run big to 2nd gear often and it simply isn't an issue for me. I prefer to be able to stay in the large ring longer before it shifts to the small ring. This is more of a get of the top of a short hill type thing. I don't cruise in that gearing.

Shimano is known for being quite conservative in there specifications. I don't think they would allow this, and certainly as the default, if it were an issue.

Of course, bike frame geometry affects this and what works for me perhaps is more of an issue for others.

I may see how my system behaves. If I do, I'll report back what I find.

There's a pretty big difference in the flexibility you get when setting up synchronized shift on 6870/9070 vs newer versions of Di2.
I asked Shimano about this once, but they couldn't give a good reason for this.. other than an oversight :).

Also... Synchronized Shift settings or profiles are tied to the cassette/crankset that were selected at the time the settings were created. Change either of those in the app, and you won't be able to use synchro profiles used with other settings :)

As I recall from playing with 11 spd. you can tell the system you have some crank and cassette combo that is different then what’s really installed, so. 36/52 crank in place of a 34/50. Some crank and cassette combos allow things like using small/small, where telling it you’ve got a a 34/50 and 11-23 or such, the system would not allow small/small and you could not shift to small/small, it was locked out. As well, the crank and cassette you tell the system you are using need to be something Shimano currently sells. I tried to tell my 11. Spd system I had an 11-23 cassette, which they used to make and then discontinued. It would not accept that cassette.