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LBS dilemma.

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LBS dilemma.

Old 07-26-17, 06:49 AM
  #1  
surgeonstone
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LBS dilemma.

I recently wiped out going down at 20 mph on a patch of wet leaves. Ever since a creak developed that was driving me nuts. Took it to my LBS and they diagnosed a crack in my carbon fork. Replaced it with a Ritchey, then in further testing found a crack in the titanium carbon fiber tube juncture that was unrepairable. The bike is my Merlin Ti/cf.
went in and said I obviously don't need the fork. He said since the tube on the fork was cut to fit, I owned the 450 dollar product. My thoughts were why cut it when testing not done. He wants to stick me with the cost. I'm all for supporting the LBS and this is a very good LBS but I'm still kind of pissed. What think you all.
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Old 07-26-17, 07:05 AM
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I'm with you that they shouldn't have cut it until they were certain that was the only issue. Can't they just put it in their clearance bin? I bet someone would snatch it up. Easier for them to recoup their cost as opposed to you trying to sell it at full retail and recoup your cost.
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Old 07-26-17, 07:07 AM
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How much time had passed when fork was installed and you found the other crack? Or are you saying they replaced the fork and found the crack 5 minutes later?
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Old 07-26-17, 07:21 AM
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Yeah. Why was the "further testing" done? Was it because you rode the bike after the fork replacement and kept hearing a noise?
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Old 07-26-17, 07:23 AM
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Did you ask them to cut the fork?
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Old 07-26-17, 07:44 AM
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How would you put on a new fork to test without cutting it in the first place? You have to put tension on the headset somehow (there's some creaking there if not!) so unless you have about a foot of spacers (again, an issue), I'm not sure how this would work in your favor.

Should have put a used fork on first. If the fork is cut, it's your fork.

Crappy situation, though.
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Old 07-26-17, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by brianmcg123 View Post
How much time had passed when fork was installed and you found the other crack? Or are you saying they replaced the fork and found the crack 5 minutes later?
Fork replaced, bike still in shop being tested and adjusted, second problem discovered next day testing.
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Old 07-26-17, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Yeah. Why was the "further testing" done? Was it because you rode the bike after the fork replacement and kept hearing a noise?
This is all in the same repair session. They had bike, doing all this work to fix as well as routine maintenance. No.
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Old 07-26-17, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
Did you ask them to cut the fork?
No.
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Old 07-26-17, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
How would you put on a new fork to test without cutting it in the first place? You have to put tension on the headset somehow (there's some creaking there if not!) so unless you have about a foot of spacers (again, an issue), I'm not sure how this would work in your favor.

Should have put a used fork on first. If the fork is cut, it's your fork.

Crappy situation, though.
No, put in fork and place stem and handlebars does not require cutting steerer tube. Could have been ridden to continue to check bike. He did not want to ride bike on damaged fork obviously and needed to replace to continue the checkover process.
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Old 07-26-17, 07:54 AM
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That's a tough situation but I would think that if the shop diagnosed the creak, sold you a fork, and were the ones to perform the replacement, they should be taking care of you right now. No questions asked. Surely they don't want to eat the cost of the fork which you can bet is a bout half what you actually paid but if the owner is any kind of good businessman, he will do what is right and give you a refund for at least the product.

You seem to be the type to buy nice bikes and equipment so he needs to look at the big picture of having you return to his shop or not. Good luck and be persistent, give the shop owner a chance to do the right thing.

Also, be sure you're dealing with the owner and not a salesman or mechanic as they will only try to cover their ass at this point.
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Old 07-26-17, 07:55 AM
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What was the further testing, and why was the decision made to do it the next day? E.g., Did someone from the shop test ride the bike and still hear something?
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Old 07-26-17, 08:14 AM
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Well it might of been the same day. Point is he had diagnosed one problem and was continuing the diagnostic process before saying it was finished.
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Old 07-26-17, 08:22 AM
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I wouldn't pay for it. In all honesty...something seems fishy.

"So, here's what we got for you. Your bike, that's still broke, plus a fork you can't use. That'll be $450 please."

No thanks. Demand your bike back and go somewhere else IMO.
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Old 07-26-17, 08:29 AM
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If I'm understanding correctly, the LBS discovered their own mistake during a final ride-around, and you never had the bike in your hands between the time you brought it in for service, the fork issue was misdiagnosed, and the Ti/CF junction issue was correctly diagnosed. Right?

IMO, you're not required to purchase a product from the shop that you don't need, and they are at fault for misdiagnosing the problem. Unless you ride a very small frame, they should eventually be able to sell the fork and cut it down for someone else. A good compromise would be to pay them for their labor, but not the product. Had you taken the bike home and ridden it around for a month on the new fork, it would be different.
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Old 07-26-17, 08:40 AM
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That's what I thought. Labor only. Correct, bike never left shop.
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Old 07-26-17, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ecnewell View Post
IMO, you're not required to purchase a product from the shop that you don't need...
Does this include Pinarellos?
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Old 07-26-17, 09:53 AM
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I'm surprised no one asked whether the fork dismissed as bad, was in fact OK all along.

If so, the replacement was totally unnecessary and only done based on their erroneous diagnosis of the problem.

If the fork is bad, the situation is muddier, since finding the fork problem could have kept someone from also finding the other problem, which only showed itself when the new fork was installed. It could be argued that they shouldn't have stopped when they found the first problem, but if the creak was subtle I can understand their missing it.
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Old 07-26-17, 09:57 AM
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Sorry about your crash, crash damage, & LBS troubles.



But wait- it has been clearly stated on BF that carbon fails catastrophically and you WILL crash.

So apparently you've done it wrong...
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Old 07-26-17, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
I'm surprised no one asked whether the fork dismissed as bad, was in fact OK all along.

If so, the replacement was totally unnecessary and only done based on their erroneous diagnosis of the problem.

If the fork is bad, the situation is muddier, since finding the fork problem could have kept someone from also finding the other problem, which only showed itself when the new fork was installed. It could be argued that they shouldn't have stopped when they found the first problem, but if the creak was subtle I can understand their missing it.
I think that's ignoring the greater issue. The OP brought his bike in for a repair. Repair shops are paid to repair things. They could not repair his bike, therefore they don't get paid, unless for some reason the OP wants a spare fork.
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Old 07-26-17, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
I'm surprised no one asked whether the fork dismissed as bad, was in fact OK all along.

If so, the replacement was totally unnecessary and only done based on their erroneous diagnosis of the problem.

If the fork is bad, the situation is muddier, since finding the fork problem could have kept someone from also finding the other problem, which only showed itself when the new fork was installed. It could be argued that they shouldn't have stopped when they found the first problem, but if the creak was subtle I can understand their missing it.
No it was definitely cracked and ready to asplode. Catastrophic failure very soon he said. Reason he replaced it prior to finishing the checkover was he felt it unsafe to ride to check as was.
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Old 07-26-17, 10:11 AM
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If the fork was cracked and they replaced the damaged fork, and then later found the cracked frame, you don't owe them anything.

They never should have sold you a fork for the frame you couldn't use. They never should have cut the fork to put it in a frame to test the frame. They misdiagnosed the problem, they elected to cut the fork.

If they had let you ride off and the frame broke and you got hurt, they would likely be liable, because they misdiagnosed the problem. Why should you be liable now, because they misdiagnosed the problem.

I guess you have to decide if you ever plan to do business with them again ... but there is No Way you should have to pay for a fork which you never used, and if you had used, could have caused you grave injury when the frame broke.

This is 100 percent their error. Whether or how much you want to work with them is up to you ... but you don't Owe them a thing.
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Old 07-26-17, 10:13 AM
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Several thoughts: 1) Are you sure the crack in the frame can't be repaired? I undertand that the fact its at the juncture of the Ti and CF complicates thing, but I'd still look into whether Calfee, or another CF shop could fix it;


2) assuming you're going to replace the frame, see if you can buy a new frame only, with a close enough headtube size that you can utilize the cut fork.


3) to the extent the frame can't be repaired, it shows one reason these Ti/CF mixes really weren't the best idea. More marketing move for Ti builders to stay relevant as CF took over.
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Old 07-26-17, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
I'm surprised no one asked whether the fork dismissed as bad, was in fact OK all along.

If so, the replacement was totally unnecessary and only done based on their erroneous diagnosis of the problem.

If the fork is bad, the situation is muddier, since finding the fork problem could have kept someone from also finding the other problem, which only showed itself when the new fork was installed. It could be argued that they shouldn't have stopped when they found the first problem, but if the creak was subtle I can understand their missing it.
Originally Posted by surgeonstone View Post
No it was definitely cracked and ready to asplode. Catastrophic failure very soon he said. Reason he replaced it prior to finishing the checkover was he felt it unsafe to ride to check as was.
Yeah, that does complicate things. On one hand, creaking from your fork would have made it difficult to find the larger issue. On the other, as soon as they found out you were in a crash gnarly enough to crack your fork, the first thing they should have done was carefully examine the rest of the frame for damage.

Can the frame be repaired?
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Old 07-26-17, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by surgeonstone View Post
in further testing found a crack in the titanium carbon fiber tube juncture that was unrepairable. The bike is my Merlin Ti/cf.
I wouldn't trust the shop's assessment that your frame is unable to be repaired. Have a CF framebuilder look at it first
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