Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Saddle balance position and KOPS totally different!

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Saddle balance position and KOPS totally different!

Old 07-27-17, 06:24 AM
  #1  
johngwheeler
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 837
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 470 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Saddle balance position and KOPS totally different!

I've been playing around with bike fit by adjusting stem length/angle & trying to find the optimal saddle position. I've also had lots of problem with saddle comfort recently so have been moving it back and forth trying to find the "sweet spot" of comfort and efficiency.

After changing the stem to one with a slightly shorter reach (and steeper angle) I found I was sliding forward on the saddle when pedaling, and read one suggestion to move the saddle *back* to combat this. The logic , or so I understand it, is that after a certain point behind the BB, the pedal pressure will tend to push the rider towards the back of the saddle, rather than pulling them forward.

I gave this a go, and it does seem to work, at least to some degree. It also makes sense that balance gets easier (and weight on hands reduced), the further back the saddle is.

However, what I found is that the point at which I achieve balance (or only very slightly tipping forward if I take my hands of the bars) seems to be way behind KOPS, which I used a starting point. It would seem that my knees are about 3-4cm behind the pedal spindle.

It this amount of discrepancy normal? If so, it makes a mockery of KOPS as a "starting point" - it's would be way off!
johngwheeler is offline  
Old 07-27-17, 09:57 AM
  #2  
IK_biker
old fart
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PA-US
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
For most road bike geometries, the average femur length in males results in knee being behind pedal center when "balanced in saddle" method for determining saddle position is used.
However, it is incorrect to call this a "discrepancy" as there is no need to seek convergence between the "balanced in saddle" and the KOPS methods - both have been used for long time, each has its own merits.

If you dig into kinesiology and sports medicine studies, you'd find that the majority of the population is considered to have under-developed hamstrings and glutes due to lifestyle, adopted posture, and the general nature of how humans use their leg muscles on everyday basis. Note that I am excluding "serious" recreational cyclists here, together with amateur racers and cycling pros.
This muscle underdevelopment hints that most people rely on their quadriceps, which is what KOPS mostly targets: placing the rider a bit fore dictates that the rider would predominantly engage their quadriceps.
Thus, I find KOPS justified and adequate as a good starting point for beginners, for those who ride in more upright position, as these are riders who do mostly shortish rides, and who do not chase upper-level cycling performance or endurance.

When I started riding, I was fortunate to be taught a few things by seasoned pros and a couple of extremely knowledgeable bike shop owners. That was in the mid-60s, back in Europe. These 2 shop owners recommended and applied KOPS when they sold bikes to the general public, but as I apprenticed with both of them, I realized that KOPS is not what they use when they set up and tune the pro's bikes. When I asked about this, my principals explained to me in some detail, joined by the pro riders, that KOPS simply won't do for them.

This is why I wouldn't call your recent personal findings "mockery of KOPS"; there is no mockery, just two different saddle positioning methods for two not essentially overlapping target audiences.
IK_biker is offline  
Old 07-27-17, 10:05 AM
  #3  
andr0id
Senior Member
 
andr0id's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,522
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1422 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
KOPS is a rule of thumb / starting point for somebody that has never ridden a bike.

People who race or do a lot of recreational riding need to understand how they fit on the bike and be willing to make changes and adjustments.

Also, "saddle balance" needs to take into account saddle tilt. Most saddles are tilted too far forward. That means you have to push the seat way to far back to be "balanced"
andr0id is offline  
Old 07-27-17, 12:26 PM
  #4  
banerjek
Portland Fred
 
banerjek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,548

Bikes: Custom Winter, Challenge Seiran SL, Fuji Team Pro, Cattrike Road/Velokit, РOS hybrid

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by IK_biker View Post
This is why I wouldn't call your recent personal findings "mockery of KOPS"; there is no mockery, just two different saddle positioning methods for two not essentially overlapping target audiences.
'bent riders mock KOPS
banerjek is offline  
Old 07-27-17, 12:45 PM
  #5  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 34,737

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 344 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16821 Post(s)
Liked 5,532 Times in 2,869 Posts
With as many fit issues as you've voiced, I'd be hesitant to make any declarations or condemnations just yet. Ride the bike more, feel out what actually works (as opposed to what you think works for you) and realize that mileage will vary.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 07-27-17, 01:11 PM
  #6  
Masque
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Willamette Valley
Posts: 334

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, 2011 and 2017

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Check the angle of your saddle. You should not be able to slide forward on your saddle without deciding to do so.

I recently discovered my saddle had been angled down 8° due to a mismeasurement on my part; now I set a large book on the saddle and take a measurement using a bubble level on top of the book, and angle it 3° down from there. No more pressure and numbness on my hands!

And to be clear, the 8° down saddle didn't FEEL angled down, didn't LOOK to be angled down. It just... was.

Check your angle.
Masque is offline  
Old 07-27-17, 03:56 PM
  #7  
johngwheeler
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 837
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 470 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by IK_biker View Post
For most road bike geometries, the average femur length in males results in knee being behind pedal center when "balanced in saddle" method for determining saddle position is used.
However, it is incorrect to call this a "discrepancy" as there is no need to seek convergence between the "balanced in saddle" and the KOPS methods - both have been used for long time, each has its own merits.

If you dig into kinesiology and sports medicine studies, you'd find that the majority of the population is considered to have under-developed hamstrings and glutes due to lifestyle, adopted posture, and the general nature of how humans use their leg muscles on everyday basis. Note that I am excluding "serious" recreational cyclists here, together with amateur racers and cycling pros.
This muscle underdevelopment hints that most people rely on their quadriceps, which is what KOPS mostly targets: placing the rider a bit fore dictates that the rider would predominantly engage their quadriceps.
Thus, I find KOPS justified and adequate as a good starting point for beginners, for those who ride in more upright position, as these are riders who do mostly shortish rides, and who do not chase upper-level cycling performance or endurance.

When I started riding, I was fortunate to be taught a few things by seasoned pros and a couple of extremely knowledgeable bike shop owners. That was in the mid-60s, back in Europe. These 2 shop owners recommended and applied KOPS when they sold bikes to the general public, but as I apprenticed with both of them, I realized that KOPS is not what they use when they set up and tune the pro's bikes. When I asked about this, my principals explained to me in some detail, joined by the pro riders, that KOPS simply won't do for them.

This is why I wouldn't call your recent personal findings "mockery of KOPS"; there is no mockery, just two different saddle positioning methods for two not essentially overlapping target audiences.
Well, I think I was a bit harsh in my condemnation of KOPS - I was tired and frustrated with reading contradictory advice.

Your explanation was great - two systems for different types of rider - neither one is right or wrong.

Originally Posted by andr0id View Post
KOPS is a rule of thumb / starting point for somebody that has never ridden a bike.

People who race or do a lot of recreational riding need to understand how they fit on the bike and be willing to make changes and adjustments.

Also, "saddle balance" needs to take into account saddle tilt. Most saddles are tilted too far forward. That means you have to push the seat way to far back to be "balanced"
Originally Posted by Masque View Post
Check the angle of your saddle. You should not be able to slide forward on your saddle without deciding to do so.

I recently discovered my saddle had been angled down 8° due to a mismeasurement on my part; now I set a large book on the saddle and take a measurement using a bubble level on top of the book, and angle it 3° down from there. No more pressure and numbness on my hands!

And to be clear, the 8° down saddle didn't FEEL angled down, didn't LOOK to be angled down. It just... was.

Check your angle.

I found I saddle was indeed tilted slightly download - I don't know the exact angle. I put a flat boards over the saddle and have adjusted it to tilt very slightly up. My level doesn't have angle graduations, but the bubble on my 600mm level moved about 2-3mm from center.

My saddle is relatively flat (Fizik Antares), with a very slight rise at the rear, so I compensated by taking an average level from the level of the entire saddle and the front (flat) portion. I'm hoping for a 1-2 degree rise at most

I'll test ride this configuration and see how I go. What I'm trying to avoid is sliding forward and having my sensitive bits on the narrow part of the saddle. On the Fizik this position (for me) seems really critical. A centimetre of difference can make it uncomfortable on a long ride. I may also look at more curved saddles like the Fizik Aliante, which I briefly tried on a test ride, and found more comfortable - but the bike and bike fit were totally different, so who knows!
johngwheeler is offline  
Old 07-27-17, 04:35 PM
  #8  
badger1
Senior Member
 
badger1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 4,517
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1208 Post(s)
Liked 443 Times in 250 Posts
Originally Posted by johngwheeler View Post
I've been playing around with bike fit by adjusting stem length/angle & trying to find the optimal saddle position. I've also had lots of problem with saddle comfort recently so have been moving it back and forth trying to find the "sweet spot" of comfort and efficiency.

After changing the stem to one with a slightly shorter reach (and steeper angle) I found I was sliding forward on the saddle when pedaling, and read one suggestion to move the saddle *back* to combat this. The logic , or so I understand it, is that after a certain point behind the BB, the pedal pressure will tend to push the rider towards the back of the saddle, rather than pulling them forward.

I gave this a go, and it does seem to work, at least to some degree. It also makes sense that balance gets easier (and weight on hands reduced), the further back the saddle is.

However, what I found is that the point at which I achieve balance (or only very slightly tipping forward if I take my hands of the bars) seems to be way behind KOPS, which I used a starting point. It would seem that my knees are about 3-4cm behind the pedal spindle.

It this amount of discrepancy normal? If so, it makes a mockery of KOPS as a "starting point" - it's would be way off!
I'm the same. KOPS is useless other than as a kind of base-line starting point.

You've an awful lot of threads on all these various issues; since no one else (I think, unless I did on another of your threads) has suggested it, read this:

How to Fit a Bicycle
badger1 is offline  
Old 07-27-17, 05:21 PM
  #9  
andr0id
Senior Member
 
andr0id's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,522
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1422 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by johngwheeler View Post
Well, I think I was a bit harsh in my condemnation of KOPS - I was tired and frustrated with reading contradictory advice.

Your explanation was great - two systems for different types of rider - neither one is right or wrong.






I found I saddle was indeed tilted slightly download - I don't know the exact angle. I put a flat boards over the saddle and have adjusted it to tilt very slightly up. My level doesn't have angle graduations, but the bubble on my 600mm level moved about 2-3mm from center.

My saddle is relatively flat (Fizik Antares), with a very slight rise at the rear, so I compensated by taking an average level from the level of the entire saddle and the front (flat) portion. I'm hoping for a 1-2 degree rise at most

I'll test ride this configuration and see how I go. What I'm trying to avoid is sliding forward and having my sensitive bits on the narrow part of the saddle. On the Fizik this position (for me) seems really critical. A centimetre of difference can make it uncomfortable on a long ride. I may also look at more curved saddles like the Fizik Aliante, which I briefly tried on a test ride, and found more comfortable - but the bike and bike fit were totally different, so who knows!
I ride on the Antares VS. For me, I like that saddle nose up a bit to make the wide part in the back mostly level rather than the saddle being level nose to tail.
When it was "level" I was still sliding off the back into the middle section of the saddle where I didn't want to be.

YMMV
andr0id is offline  
Old 07-27-17, 09:37 PM
  #10  
johngwheeler
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 837
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 470 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
I'm the same. KOPS is useless other than as a kind of base-line starting point.

You've an awful lot of threads on all these various issues; since no one else (I think, unless I did on another of your threads) has suggested it, read this:

How to Fit a Bicycle
Yes, I have been a bit obsessive with bike fit questions recently! I've just been going nuts trying to get comfortable, and wanting to try every option to get to the mystical "Ah! That's comfy!" moment :-)

The link you sent is one of the best no-nonsense, non-technical articles on bike fit that I've read - great stuff!

I think I'm zooming in on my goal now....and learning a lot about bike fit in the process.
johngwheeler is offline  
Old 07-27-17, 09:41 PM
  #11  
johngwheeler
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 837
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 470 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by andr0id View Post
I ride on the Antares VS. For me, I like that saddle nose up a bit to make the wide part in the back mostly level rather than the saddle being level nose to tail.
When it was "level" I was still sliding off the back into the middle section of the saddle where I didn't want to be.

YMMV
Exactly! I have adjusted the angle so that the front section tilts slightly upwards and have found that I don't slip down the elevated rear section now. I find the Antares to have a very limited sweet spot that requires me to be seated towards the rear, not in the middle. As you say, if the rear is not nearly level, there is a tendency to slip forward, and this puts too much pressure of my undercarriage.

Thanks!
johngwheeler is offline  
Old 07-27-17, 09:48 PM
  #12  
johngwheeler
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 837
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 470 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Update: think I've found the spot!

Many thanks for all your suggestions. I may have found the solution, or at least a getting closer to it.

I have now moved my saddle backward 15mm and angled the front slightly upwards (bubble on a 600mm level about 2-3mm offset). I'm now not slipping forward and my posture is more stretched out, allowing me to get a more comfortable torso to arm angle and bent elbows.

The cure for slipping may be a combination of both the angle and also the set-back so that I'm now pushing myself back into the saddle a little with each pedal stroke (or at least maintaining my position there). My balance is also much better - I've greatly reduced weight on my hands and can almost hold myself up if I take my hands off the bars. A bit more core strength and the position will be nearly perfect. I am about 3-4cm behind KOPS, but I don't think this really matters.

I'm riding my first Century tomorrow, so the proof will well and truly, be in the pudding.
johngwheeler is offline  
Old 07-28-17, 08:34 AM
  #13  
trailangel
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,653

Bikes: Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1785 Post(s)
Liked 551 Times in 326 Posts
OK, here is the deal.
Campagnolo 2 bolt seatpost.
Brooks Pro saddle
Slam the saddle all the way to the rear.
You now have the correct saddle position.
trailangel is offline  
Old 07-28-17, 10:11 AM
  #14  
Fiery
Senior Member
 
Fiery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,360
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 242 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 13 Posts
Firstly, how do you measure your knee position in relation to the pedal spindle? Just eyeing it is very inaccurate.

Secondly, did you lower the saddle any after moving it back? If you didn't, your knees are now more extended than before, and that moves them back in relation to the pedal spindles. Having the knees very far behind the spindles can be a symptom of a saddle that's too high.
Fiery is offline  
Old 07-28-17, 10:36 AM
  #15  
redlude97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,691
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1944 Post(s)
Liked 192 Times in 142 Posts
Originally Posted by johngwheeler View Post
Many thanks for all your suggestions. I may have found the solution, or at least a getting closer to it.

I have now moved my saddle backward 15mm and angled the front slightly upwards (bubble on a 600mm level about 2-3mm offset). I'm now not slipping forward and my posture is more stretched out, allowing me to get a more comfortable torso to arm angle and bent elbows.

The cure for slipping may be a combination of both the angle and also the set-back so that I'm now pushing myself back into the saddle a little with each pedal stroke (or at least maintaining my position there). My balance is also much better - I've greatly reduced weight on my hands and can almost hold myself up if I take my hands off the bars. A bit more core strength and the position will be nearly perfect. I am about 3-4cm behind KOPS, but I don't think this really matters.

I'm riding my first Century tomorrow, so the proof will well and truly, be in the pudding.
are you really making major adjustments before a long ride?
redlude97 is offline  
Old 07-28-17, 12:44 PM
  #16  
philbob57
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Chicago North Shore
Posts: 1,771

Bikes: frankenbike based on MKM frame

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked 272 Times in 169 Posts
Ell, it'll be a great test....

I hope you have a great ride, and I hope the adjustments work perfectly.
philbob57 is offline  
Old 07-28-17, 01:33 PM
  #17  
RNAV
Flyin' under the radar
 
RNAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: O'Fallon, IL
Posts: 789

Bikes: '15 LeMond Washoe custom painted, '06 LeMond Croix de fer custom painted, '90 Trek 420 converted to FG

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by johngwheeler View Post
I found I was sliding forward on the saddle when pedaling, and read one suggestion to move the saddle *back* to combat this.
I didn't see this mentioned above. One thing to consider if you're sliding forward while pedaling is that your saddle may be too wide. If it's too wide, the pedaling action will cause you to slide forward to a point there your femurs are no longer banging against the sides of the saddle. That point will likely be uncomfortable if your saddle was designed for hips wider than your's.
RNAV is offline  
Old 07-28-17, 06:19 PM
  #18  
bleui
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 453
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RNAV View Post
I didn't see this mentioned above. One thing to consider if you're sliding forward while pedaling is that your saddle may be too wide. If it's too wide, the pedaling action will cause you to slide forward to a point there your femurs are no longer banging against the sides of the saddle. That point will likely be uncomfortable if your saddle was designed for hips wider than your's.
wow I never thought about this. I keep sliding forward even with many extreme fore-aft adjustment, and I do have a very wide saddle (Power 155mm) compare to my seat bone width (112mm). Time to hunt for another saddle I guess.

Last edited by bleui; 07-29-17 at 02:10 AM.
bleui is offline  
Old 07-28-17, 08:02 PM
  #19  
Sojodave
Senior Member
 
Sojodave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Utah
Posts: 555

Bikes: The Blurple Specialized Roubaix Pro

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked 123 Times in 62 Posts
wow I never thought about this. I keep sliding forward even with many extreme fore-aft adjustment, and I do have a very wide saddle (Power 155mm) compare with my seat bone width (112mm). Time to hunt for another saddle I guess.
If your sit bones are 112mm, a 155 Power saddle is too wide. You would be better off with a 143.
Sojodave is offline  
Old 07-29-17, 07:38 AM
  #20  
RNAV
Flyin' under the radar
 
RNAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: O'Fallon, IL
Posts: 789

Bikes: '15 LeMond Washoe custom painted, '06 LeMond Croix de fer custom painted, '90 Trek 420 converted to FG

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by bleui View Post
wow I never thought about this. I keep sliding forward even with many extreme fore-aft adjustment, and I do have a very wide saddle (Power 155mm) compare to my seat bone width (112mm). Time to hunt for another saddle I guess.
If 112mm is really your sit bone width, you're sitting on a saddle what's WAY too wide. The narrowest Power saddle is 143mm, as @Sojodave mentioned. I'd argue that's probably still too wide.

If you want to stick with Specialized, the Toupe is offered in 130mm.
RNAV is offline  
Old 07-29-17, 09:32 AM
  #21  
wphamilton
Senior Member
 
wphamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280

Bikes: Nashbar Road

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2932 Post(s)
Liked 333 Times in 223 Posts
112mm is in the middle of the range of medium sit bone width. Add around 30 for the saddle width. However the shape of the saddle is as important when the saddle width is in the right range. Maybe one person likes having a little more support from the sides and another needs more curved sides.

KOPS vs "balance" are both gimmicky IMHO. They describe where a good saddle position might be, but don't determine where that point is.
wphamilton is offline  
Old 07-29-17, 05:03 PM
  #22  
johngwheeler
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 837
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 470 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Fiery View Post
Firstly, how do you measure your knee position in relation to the pedal spindle? Just eyeing it is very inaccurate.

Secondly, did you lower the saddle any after moving it back? If you didn't, your knees are now more extended than before, and that moves them back in relation to the pedal spindles. Having the knees very far behind the spindles can be a symptom of a saddle that's too high.
I "measured" using a plumb bob, but only estimated the distance from the bob to the spindle. I didn't lower the saddle because it was already set by the fitter at about the same saddle fore-aft position (I had previously move the saddle way forward from the fitter's position in an attempt to remove saddle pressure - turns out he was right! But not about the saddle tilt...).

In any case, the century was fine with this saddle position, so I'm calling it good!
johngwheeler is offline  
Old 07-29-17, 05:06 PM
  #23  
johngwheeler
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 837
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 470 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
are you really making major adjustments before a long ride?
Not ideal, but I really needed to try something else to avoid the discomfort of the previous time. In the end it worked well!

Originally Posted by philbob57 View Post
Ell, it'll be a great test....

I hope you have a great ride, and I hope the adjustments work perfectly.
They did, thanks! I had a bit a butt soreness, but nothing unexpected after 7.5 hours in the saddle... I could have done with applying some more chamois cream half way, so I'll need to look at getting some single-use sachets.
johngwheeler is offline  
Old 07-29-17, 09:31 PM
  #24  
Masque
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Willamette Valley
Posts: 334

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, 2011 and 2017

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by johngwheeler View Post
I could have done with applying some more chamois cream half way, so I'll need to look at getting some single-use sachets.
Or, use a contact lens case. You could even put sunscreen in one side and chamois cream in the other.
Masque is offline  
Old 07-29-17, 10:56 PM
  #25  
johngwheeler
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 837
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 470 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Masque View Post
Or, use a contact lens case. You could even put sunscreen in one side and chamois cream in the other.
That's a great suggestion! I wear contact lenses and have loads of old cases.... Thanks!
johngwheeler is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.