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Special wheel lacing consideration for disc brakes?

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Special wheel lacing consideration for disc brakes?

Old 08-29-17, 03:15 AM
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redfooj
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Special wheel lacing consideration for disc brakes?

looking at 2 wheelsets for the cliched winter-beater/gravel/dirt/all-around/adventure/future-of-road bike
will be running with 32mm or 35mm clinchers. probably tubeless when next pair comes.

Hunt 4season gravel:
rims: 20-25/24mm in-out-height dimensions
spokes: 28/28, 2x laced all around, j-bend pillar butted spokes

Cero ard23:
rims: 18-24/23mm in-out-height dimensions
spokes: 24/24, 2x laced all around, j-bend cx-ray butted spokes


theyre laced identically. wonder though if the higher spoke count is a necessity considering braking forces? im a light rider though.

other consideration is maintenance due to expected riding conditions. both use sealed bearings so i guess its a wash. dont know exact detail of hub design and specs.

the stock wheels (colnago-branded, probably alex-based) ive never done maintenance on so i guess water ingress isnt too bad an issue
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Old 08-29-17, 05:42 AM
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The front disc wheel on my commuter is laced 32/3x with DT Revolution spokes simply because at the time I decided that I wanted to use the same rim front and rear for some odd reason and had planned to build the rear 32/3x Revolution NDS/Competition DS. The sealed cartridge bearings in the American Classic hubs of those wheels still feel smooth after ~25k miles in all sorts of weather.

My Chinabomb has a front 24/2x and a rear 28/2x all Sapim CX-Ray mostly because I tend to err on the conservative side of wheels, preferring a bit of a extra weight versus some flex or tendency to go out of true. I brake mostly on the front and the 24 spokes have shown no signs of being too little so far. I don't have enough miles on the Bitex hubs yet to judge their durability but bearing swaps are easy so I'm not all that concerned.

I was ~82 kg this winter but am now down to ~70 kg. I had to true the front and rear of my commuter's wheels once, and the front was only because I cracked the hub hitting a big pothole. The rear just needed a slight tweak after several thousand miles. Time will tell on the 24/28 build but I get the feeling it will be fine.
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Old 08-29-17, 05:47 AM
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i saw some vigorous debates also about the lacing style whether spokes should be head-in or head-out. and apparently shimano and chris king recommends opposing methods. chris king also says to do 3x only disc wheels...
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Old 08-29-17, 06:46 AM
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The 2x is certainly a disc brake consideration - the only time I've seen radial on a disc wheelset is on certain Campy/Fulcrums with 2:1 lacing.

On the head-in/head-out debate - what were the respective reasons? Brace angle? Caliper clearance?
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Old 08-29-17, 07:09 AM
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dunno. i was scanning it on a smartphone at lunch but the sandwich demanded so much attention i couldnt absorb the reasons behind the argument
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Old 08-29-17, 07:48 AM
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The only thing I can think of that's universally agreed is that full radial is inadvisable.

Anything beyond that is open to debate.

Rear wheels are more at risk for fatigue. Drive torque is repeated far more often than brake torque.
OTOH doing a stoppie despite being properly positioned might be more common than doing a wheelie while properly positioned.
Max brake torque might be higher for front wheels than max drive torque is for rears(on road).
Wheels solely intended for off-road riding might get away with less torque tolerance than road wheels. Tires will slip earlier, limiting force.
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Old 08-29-17, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by redfooj
chris king also says to do 3x only disc wheels...
Chris King has said numerous other things that have no connection to reality.
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Old 08-29-17, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by joejack951
Chris King has said numerous other things that have no connection to reality.
Actually it's probably fully connected to the reality of litigation should something go wrong. So they err on the side of overdoing it as a means of CYA.
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Old 08-29-17, 12:30 PM
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Been riding a 28h F/R, 2x/radial front 2x/2x rear for a few thousand miles for general commuting without issues. Wheels have never lost tension or gone out of true. I am however around 58kg. Not sure if I'd want to try going with a lesser spoke count for off road riding.

I have them laced to Shimano specification as far as heads in/out configuration, mostly because I'm using wider Spyre calipers but there's still plenty of clearance. Chris King's spec doesn't really make sense to me.
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Old 08-29-17, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Grasschopper
Actually it's probably fully connected to the reality of litigation should something go wrong. So they err on the side of overdoing it as a means of CYA.
Well it seems we're both wrong. According to the following link, Chris King makes a 24H disc hub (a hub that can't be laced 3X) and recommends '2-or-more cross' for disc hubs in general.

https://chrisking.com/products/313
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Old 08-29-17, 01:08 PM
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this doesnt help me decide between A and B

tho i think im gonna go with B to save 100g of weight.

i do the occasional descend amongst sharp cobbles but its mostly dirt tracks with roots so no large impacts
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Old 08-29-17, 01:23 PM
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It may not seem that way, but maximum brake and driving torques are similar.

You might think that the brake's are more powerful than your legs, and they well might be. But that's not relevant to the problem. Both are limited by what it takes to lift a wheel.

In the case of driving torque, the limit is what it takes to lift the front wheel, ie. Pop a wheelie. The front brake is limited by what would cause an endo. Any normal pattern is more than adequate to either task. And given that spoke failures are the result of fatigue, the rear wheel will have a shorter service life regardless.
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