Damien09

O.o how do you or anyone know about his PayPal purchase or warranty claim?

Marcus_Ti

He admitted in his purchase thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/19505243-post1.html

He paid for goods and services using the "gift money" option...dodging Paypal's fees, and also voiding any claim to Paypal good/service protections. Of course, being beyond 45 days post payment, odds are he was screwed Paypal protections wise anyways. But that kind of break in that place was a ticking time bomb. Lucky he didn't get hurt worse and sooner.

Damien09

ah ok that makes more sense. But PayPal's buyer protection goes to 180 days now it used to be 45 days back before 2014. But the point is still valid as he can't do it

duane041

Had a friend who bought Chinese carbon cross frame in 2014. First bunny hop over a very small barrier and the down tube cracked.

Even if it were to be repaired, it'd probably just fail somewhere else.

But I admire your attitude, seems you knew that this day might eventually come.

stockae92

Just wondering, what are you going to replace your frame with? Even if Deng Fu replace the frame under warranty, would you build the bike up and ride it?

I am glad that you kept the rubber side down with no incident.

67stang

ok look who's back, the ultimate troll!
I think we've already had this discussion bro.

In any case, I received a prompt email from Deng Fu this morning (within 24 hours of sending my email regarding the break) and they will send me a warranty replacement. They've asked that I cut out the downtube and send it to them for analysis, which I am willing to do.
So - for a chinese company that is pretty good response and warranty service... better than I've received on domestic frames in the past.

67stang

Thanks. I have another 'non-chinese' frame that I ride; the deng fu was never meant to be my primary bike - but honestly it fit and rode so well that it became my bike of choice the last few months.

Deng Fu has indicated they will replace the frame under warranty. I'm not afraid to ride it - I mean with the logic that some of the folks above are expressing, I would be a fool to ride a specialized s-works ever again too, right? At a minimum I'll build up the replacement frame and use it as a Zwift bike.

Abe_Froman

Wow nice. Can't really ask for anything more than that. Plus you get to hack up a carbon fiber frame with a saw for fun. Almost worth the price of admission right there

I do have to say though...your crack is giving me pause about considering a cheap chinese frame...I normally would have assumed quality was basically the same as major brand stuff. But that sure seems like a wierd spot/way to crack a frame.

67stang

Marcus, Redfooj, and other snowflakes who continue to be offended that I skirted paypal fees....
I wonder if any of you have ever read what the Pay Pal protection actually covers?
It does NOT protect you on a warranty issue. It might protect you on a fraud issue (e.g. you don't receive the product or get a box of rocks) I have pasted the link below in case some of you want to actually inform yourselves rather than trying to **** on this discussion every few minutes....

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mp...y-and-security

67stang

Yes I agree - my confidence in the quality of the manufacturing has definitely been significantly lowered.
I was intending to cut up the frame and have a contact in the frame industry inspect it/give me his thoughts. For as much bashing (and promotion) there is out there on chinese open mold carbon frames, you would think that what a magazine or company like Spec/Trek/Giant would do is buy a few, cut them up, analyze the layup and mfg quality and then expose it in an article - perhaps they have and I just haven't seen the story; or perhaps they did and didn't find the frames to be significantly different than their own in quality. I don't know but want to know, which is why I spent the money to do the experiment.

In any case, right now I have two data points on cracked carbon frames. One is a US brand at $3000 retail price and the other is this chinese frame at $800 retail price. Seems like many out there are ready to make some inconsistent conclusions....

Abe_Froman

If you do this, I'd like to know what he finds. Even if you have to get the cracked portion to Dengfu ASAP, I think it would be really interesting to properly analyze an unharmed portion. Cut out the top tube and send it....

67stang

That's my plan, I will definitely post what I learn.

smarkinson

Remember when sawing CF to take precautions. It's generally recommended to use a dust mask.

79pmooney

This is why I ride titanium from reputable builders and lugged steel. I used to build fiberglass boats. The flaws in fiberglass (carbon fiber is just fiberglass with a different fiber and resin) are from workmanship and mistakes handling the resin. On a boat, you can (usually) poke around and get a feel for the level of workmanship. Still doesn't tell you if the resin was catalyzed properly, air bubbles rolled out, etc. Yes, you can do the same taking out the seatpost and bringing a flashlight. Downtubes, toptubes, forks and stays are a lot harder to check.

Seat tube is one of the places of lesser consequence to see a failure. Just behind the headtube on either the top or downtube is a place I want full confidence. Lugger frames very rarely have issues there, even very poorly made ones. Titanium frames from reputable builders rarely fail there without visible warning well in advance.

I come from a different place than most of the posters here. I have experienced first hand a frame failure in one of those places where failure leads to near unthinkable consequences. So I am pickier than most on what I am willing to ride further than the limits of the parking lot.

Ben

rpenmanparker 

The reputable Chinese sellers also have warranties. No bats needed.

rpenmanparker 

Apparently the quality IS the same as major brand stuff. He also broke a Spesh frame.

rpenmanparker 

I don't see the difference. Both frames cracked, and in the same area of the bike as far as stresses are concerned. Maybe you aren't heavy OP, but perhaps you RIDE HEAVY.

Maelochs

While I will watch this thread with interest, it in no way turns we off to major-brand Chinese CF frames. In fact, the only sensible response to this thread is either to see both breakages as anomalies (or user abuse (not to cast aspersions, but very few people manage to break One frame in a lifetime unless they do dirt-jumping or serious downhill/freeride)) or to take the 79pmooney approach and eschew CF altogether.

So ... I will take the ride and see where it takes me or where I fall off .... when the frame cracks.

Spouse: "What is that A.A.I.A. decal on your bike ... some trade association certification?"

Myself: "It means 'Always an Imminent Aspolsion!'"

Life is like gambling in that the house Always wins in the end ... so whenever you can, take a flyer. You will lose one way or another, but one trip might be a lot more exciting ... and past a certain age ... more life per se has no value ... only more living.

Looks like I will have to ride my Chinabomb this evening ... double down and see what I win.

rpenmanparker 

67stang

Maelochs

I generally agree. But I personally wouldn't make too much out of of the two data points from one cyclist regarding either my riding style or the quality of carbon frames. It's way too small of a sample size.

I don't know what the 'right number' of carbon frame breaks per cyclist or cycled-mile ought to be. Just some thoughts though:
I am fairly certain most cyclists who own carbon frames have never had reason to have their frame inspected for cracks. Stands to reason there are probably LOTS of carbon bikes out on the road today with inconsequential, to potentially significant, cracks that the riders aren't even aware of, and that will never pose an issue over the life of that bike.

Secondly, there is certainly good data on cracked frame rates at Spec/Giant/Trek/others that you and I will never be privy too. Just because our only data is anecdotal and small-fish data points like mine, doesn't mean the problem isn't significant. It may very well be that US branded frames and chinese frames crack/fail at statistically the same or similar rates. The reason we pay *think* the chinese frame failure is more prevalent is because of the low frequency of frames/bikes out there by say Deng Fu, Hong Fu others. Until I bought my Deng Fu, I personally had never seen one or known someone who owned one. On the other hand I know or have seen thousands to tens of thousands of Specialized frames in the last 5 years.

In any case, I am not yet deterred from riding a chinese frame....the story isn't over yet for me, as I said I want to understand if the mfg quality of this frame is truely sub-par; and also see how the delivery of the warranty replacement turns out.

draganm

wouldn't that make the seat post 2 feet long?

I remember Columbus steel frames breaking (back in the day) where the seat post tube ends, it' creates a natural stress-riser,
so this is not an unheard of failure, maybe not after 6 months, but........... YMV

redfooj

evidently not you since that's exactly what you categorically denied in the previous thread.

took a while, but happy to see you finally get up to speed.

67stang

Could someone help me understand WTF redfooj is trying to communicate to me?

Redfooj - I'm sorry you're still butt hurt that I skipped out on a paypal fee 6 months ago. This thread is about product performance, not about fraud. I appreciate you still looking out for my personal finances, but seriously dude...get a grip.

67stang

That pic with the wonky seat angle was just to get a quick pic posted since guys were asking to see the final buildup.
Actual install of the seat post was much lower.
I'll post a pic tonight that shows where the seat post is installed in the frame and that it extends a bit below the fracture.

Campag4life

You have cracked two bikes...one with a known pedigree.

Are you a big strong guy? Any idea how many watts you lay down?

Can you describe what circumstances each frame failed?

If you are a real big rider, with that amount of exposed post showing, you likely need a 400mm post.

Glad you are OK to ride another day.