rubiksoval

I didn't make any claims except for the claim that his argument was one of tyranny and extremely lacking of perspective.

It's flat-out egregious to suggest that people should accept feeling ripped-off because they were given the chance to be ripped-off in the first place.

rpenmanparker 

Are you truly so aggrieved? Have you personally been so horribly mistreated? If not, then your posts are totally disingenuous.

Maelochs

yes well .... he never said any of that, so you are making up lies and then attacking the lies you made up. And everyone else is laughing at you.

LAJ

Seriously?

It would be nice to see the resolution in this thread, but it certainly isn't written in stone, if you all get my drift.

Maelochs

So ... great Deng Fu weather we've been having, eh?

dksix

@67stang

I did read through the whole thread but skipped most of some posts that seemed to not be on topic, so if this has been covered and I missed it I apologize.

Do you have an estimate of hours or miles of use you got from this frame? Did you use this frame on a trainer any? You said the Specialized feel over but there were cracks found not local to the fall over impact area, what do you feel was the cause of those cracks? You opted for a light weight version frame (850 instead of 950 grams) would you expect that an ultra light weight (more than 10% less) to have some limited life span?

Please don't take these questions as any sort of an attack, I am right now considering replacing a name brand Italian made frameset with a Chinese framset for a geometry I believe I will enjoy more. Your opinions of these questions will be factored in to my decision. Obviously I'm a pro Chinese buyer to be considering making this change and have been riding Chinese CF wheels and other CF part for years without issue.

67stang

Good questions...my answers below

I did not use this bike on a trainer more than for maybe an hour or two. I originally built it for the trainer, ironically, but I ended up liking how it rode and ended up just using it as my main road bike from April of this year to last week.

That's about 6 months. I ride about 10,000 miles a year so ballpark I probably have 5000 miles on this bike.

Had you asked me a few weeks ago I would have sung you its praises. Obviously the fact that it broke in the way it did I am a little unsure about the quality of these frames. Could be a fluke, or it could be that these frames coming out of China at a discount price are just not made to the quality that other frames are. I don't have enough data to make that conclusion. If Deng Fu had given me grief over the breakage and the warranty I'd probably rest at this conclusion. But the fact that they were very pleasant to deal with and surprised at the break and quick to send me a new frame, which is in transit, makes me want to give the frame another try.

So unfortunately I don't have any definitive advice for you.

Regarding the s-works..., that was a very nice riding bike and I do miss it... Like I said in one of my earlier post I believe that most carbon frames may have some amount of cracks that will never go noticed and it will never make a difference. Because I knew or suspected that I had crack that frame and sent it in for analysis it uncovered a couple of other cracks... I suspect that those we're probably not significant and maybe they were the result of just normal wear and tear, I rode that bike through some pretty rough road races so who knows.

dksix

I support my hobby on a budget, losing a $700 frame would be a big hit to me but knowing the potential personal injury cost of a frame failure makes the $700 insignificant. I really like my Basso but it's steep head tube angle and short wheelbase does leave something to be desired for my slower relaxed pace. I've found a frame set on eBay that has a longer wheel base and a more relaxed head tube angle. It's $600 and not exactly the color scheme I'd choose but the geometry seems to be spot on for the riding road I do. For my size there are any of the particularly ultra light weight frames, much less in the relaxed geometry I'm looking for, In those aspects the Basso is about as good as it's going to get. But being on a budget it's this frameset, a complete hybrid bike for that rails to trails riding I've become fond of or an interactive trainer for my winter exercise room/man cave. (though at this point the trainer is the most probable choice since I did just order the display I plan to be used for Swift tonight).

As I posted in another thread earlier, I know first hand the potential high quality products that are now being produced in China as often competing against Chinese companies in my job. The manufacturer's willingness to offer a replacement is a huge plus but I'd really rather not need a replacement. This would likely be a more cut and dried issue had you not also broken a high end Specialized but the fact that you have other CF bikes that been trouble free does muddy the waters a bit.

Are the frames that have not given you problems as high end and as aimed at low weight as the 2 frames you have broken?

Just an FYI, the frameset from eBay I will buy should I replace the Basso

rpenmanparker 

dksix, two comments about your post. First, buying Chinese carbon frames directly from the named seller like Dengfu, Hongfu or Workswell would seem to be a better plan than from eBay. I think your leverage in case of s problem could be better. It could be the same with eBay, or even be the same seller under a different name, but I would prefer to buy directly from the name brand seller's online site/email contact. There isn't much name-brand type protection in this type of commerce. Why not try to at least maximize it?

Second, they may or may not have the frame type that you want, but Workswell tends to sell significantly more cheaply than Hongfu and Dengfu. Surely more cheaply than what you are now looking at. Also more cheaply than Nashbar, etc. I would look for the frame style on their website. Workswell's quality and warranty policy seem to be ast least as good as the others'

Good luck.

Maelochs

Unfortunately few Chinese shops seems to sell the Texas-sized frame this guy needs. Take a look a t WCB-R-093 Normal V brake-workswellbikes

Chain stay and head tube are one cm shorter, TT 2 cm, WB 2.5, stack and reach each 1 cm shorter ... seat post and stem and spacers could overcome some of this.

Really though, the guy just might be too big ... I am sure he has done all the research. At least that seller (GoBike) has been active since 2011. The ones I avoid are the ones who joined Ebay last week .... for the 17th time under the 17th different name.

DaisyKumar

The common denominator seems to be the rider.

Maelochs

Only one way to test that ... send the new frame to me and I will put 5K miles on it and see if it breaks.

67stang

Thanks redfooj, keep up the childish antics. Do you even ride?

Sangetsu

In any case, I received a prompt email from Deng Fu this morning (within 24 hours of sending my email regarding the break) and they will send me a warranty replacement. They've asked that I cut out the downtube and send it to them for analysis, which I am willing to do.
So - for a chinese company that is pretty good response and warranty service... better than I've received on domestic frames in the past.

No complaints about my dealings with Chinese goods and sellers, in all cases I have gotten what I have paid for, and on the rare occasion that I haven't, I have gotten a refund with no questions asked.

Bulletproof in my opinion means steel. I have experience cracks and failures in carbon, aluminum, and even titanium frames. I've never had any problem with a steel bike.

Maelochs

You just haven't crashed hard enough.

And may you never.

dksix

Robert, You may or may not remember, as I'm sure you have gotten many inquiries about Chinese frames, but I did PM you about a Chinese frame with the geometry I'm looking for back in December of 2015. I was looking for a relaxed/endurance geometry frame in a large size like I need (61CM). The frame I've linked in the only one I've found. Though it may not be a direct link to the manufacture, I do have a lot of confidence in eBay/PayPal buyer protection. I'm looking for a slack head tube angle of 72.5 to 73 with a long wheelbase of 1040mm and reach/stack of 400mm/630mm.

Really the only thing I don't like about the frameset I linked is the orange color scheme. Man, if that was only red. I really like my Basso Luguna, except for the short wheelbase of just over 1000mm and the steep headtube of 74 degrees.

I've looked at all of the manufacturers that I know of and all of the suppliers from DHGate, Alibaba and Aliexpress for this frameset but the eBay seller is the only one offering this frameset. Now this seller is on Alibaba but offering the same frame at the same price. If anyone has a link for this at a better price, please hook me up.

nycphotography

"legitimate" is such a magic word. it can make reality into fantasy and fantasy into reality.

The fact is that spesh and trek don't deny "legitimate" claims. Instead they rewrite their warranties with "long skinny words" that make it exceptionally difficult to present a "legitimate" claim.

While that is certainly their right, market will ultimately determine just how right is really is.

While I would love to think there will be a market revolt and the evil corporate vermin will be hoisted by their own petard, the sad reality is: bell curve + complacency + ostrich head in sand = they can pretty much do whatever they want.

Maelochs

Yeah, that's the downside to buying a Chinese CF frame--it is illegal in every civilized nation to pay some guy $150 to paint it any way you'd like.

Falchoon

A friend of mine bought a S-Works Tarmac frame from "Shop A" and had it custom built into a bike with DA mechanical groupset and 3T bars and stem (purchased from Wiggle/PBK etc) by his backyard bike mechanic friend (ex-shop owner/mechanic - over 30 years experience of both wrenching and riding). Fast forward a year or so and he was cleaning the bike and noticed what may or may not of been a crack in the frame, or possibly a paint defect. So he took the bike to Specialized LBS "Shop B" (different state to shop originally purchased from) and they sent the frame back to Spesh for warranty and he received a new frame within a week. This was several years ago and he is still riding the replacement frame and also another S-Works Tarmac custom build that he bought from same "Shop A" .

I bought a Felt road bike from a LBS and after a couple of years I was cleaning it one day and noticed a crack so took it back to the shop. The agreed it looked to be a crack, knew I had purchased the bike there and so attempted to send it back to the distributor for warranty. Distributor didn't want to honour the warranty, saying it was wear and tear or out of warranty, can't recall reason now (happened a few years ago). There was dialogue back and forth between the LBS and distributor for 6 months and finally they agreed to give me a new frame. I couldn't do without a bike for 6 months as I ride a bike every day, to work during the week and racing and recreational rides on weekends, so I had bought another bike in the meantime - a used Specialized Tarmac, which I have now ridden 82,000km on without any problems (apart from usual maintenance like chains, cassettes, worn out a few wheelsets etc).

So it is the luck of the draw and probably more down to the individual bike or even LBS/distributor/manufacturer as to whether it will have any issues such as a cracked frame and if the supplier will replace it under warranty. You can't generalise and say "brand x are crap because Jimmy had one and the frame cracked and the distributor/manufacturer wouldn't replace it". I know dozens of people with carbon road bikes ranging from Chinarellos to open mould chinese frames to brand names like Trek Domanes and Pinarello Dogmas and there are some that have had issues and lots that haven't. In my experience Chinarello and OM chinese frames are no more likely to have failures than any other brand.

rpenmanparker 

I won't pretend to have remembered, and my apologies for that. Of course you have to go with what is available and matches your preferences. Perhaps you are right about eBay/PayPal protections for a frame like that. I always think of the protections relating to the initial purchase, not long term warranty assistance. But, in fact, buying off eBay could be as good or better than closer to the source. I would avoid Alibaba however.

dksix

My Basso was black, blue and White. I started painting it right out of the box but I'd live with the orange before repainting a brand new frameset now.

noglider 

The market does not do all things perfectly. Some companies gain enough power to control what the market does. How about that credit reporting agency? It may not survive, but they sure wield a lot of power so far.

I don't worship markets.

rgconner

Help! Help! I am being repressed!

Maelochs

I imagine I vaguely sense potential micro-aggression. I am going to sue.

seypat

Lots of Deng Fu-lery in this thread as of late.