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Nagging question: is "vulcanizing fluid" just plain old rubber cement?

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Nagging question: is "vulcanizing fluid" just plain old rubber cement?

Old 10-05-17, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
I don't think so. If those chemicals were in the fluid, they would react with the uncured natural rubber in the fluid and harden it. What would keep that from happening? Basically the idea is a non-starter. I'm telling you that vulcanizing fluid is just rubber cement, period.
Is this the definitive answer?
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Old 10-05-17, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
Is this the definitive answer?
For now.
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Old 10-05-17, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
I don't think there could be curstives already in the fluid. If those chemicals were in the fluid, they would react with the uncured natural rubber in the fluid and harden it. What would keep that from happening? Basically the idea is a non-starter. I'm telling you that vulcanizing fluid is just rubber cement, period.
I figured, if it really was "vulcanizing", some secret formula for the solvents and accelerator kept it from happening until the solvent evaporated. In the 60's true vulcanizing required a 2-part mixture. I don't know, except that searching for the product I cannot find anything on any "vulcanizing cement" product that convinces me that it's different from "rubber cement" so I'm inclined to believe you.
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Old 10-05-17, 02:48 PM
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Here's An Incredibly Sketchy Way To Fix A Flat When You Don't Have The Right Equipment
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Old 10-05-17, 02:50 PM
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We used to use flaming patches on tractor tubes when I was a kid. Those were FUN!
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Old 10-05-17, 02:53 PM
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Old 10-05-17, 05:39 PM
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I heard that rubber cement was made in the same factory in China in the same molds by the same people, so I vote that it’s the same.
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Old 10-05-17, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
Amazon. I bought a pack of 48 patches back in 2014 for $2.39 from China that I'm still working on.

https://www.amazon.com/Joylive-Bicyc...395W5T8TT7K00E

Looks like they've gone up in price.
I saw those, but the reviews are so horrible I stayed away. Won't stick. Too stiff. Etc.

if you say they work, then i'll try them. better than $2 for 6 patches from park.
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Old 10-06-17, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
As a plastics/rubber chemist ...
Are you made mostly of plastic or of rubber?

I had heard Japan had come a long way with robotics,. but you had everyone here fooled.
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Old 10-06-17, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
I saw those, but the reviews are so horrible I stayed away. Won't stick. Too stiff. Etc. if you say they work, then i'll try them. better than $2 for 6 patches from park.
I bought the same patches ... and six tubes of really cheap vulcanizing fluid labeled "Rubber Cement." For the cost of one of those brand-name "Patch Kits" which will actually patch maybe six ties, I got about four years worth of product.

Results have been excellent .... but that might be because I was using a generic adhesive and a generic patch.

I just applied a patch about an hour ago and am going to pump it up now. If the tire explodes and shards of vulcanized rubber pierce my brain ... it probably won't affect the quality of what I post, so no worries.
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Old 10-06-17, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Are you made mostly of plastic or of rubber?

I had heard Japan had come a long way with robotics,. but you had everyone here fooled.
Mostly plastic. My rubber involvement was much less.
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Old 10-06-17, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
I saw those, but the reviews are so horrible I stayed away. Won't stick. Too stiff. Etc.

if you say they work, then i'll try them. better than $2 for 6 patches from park.
It's a different seller than the ones I bought and mine came in a roll not a sheet, but they look exactly the same. I've had no issues with them. I ran out of vulcanizing cement err... umm rubber fluid a few years ago and bought a park tool patch kit for more fluid cement and I found the Chinese stuff of better quality (probably because it gave me cancer when I used it).
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Old 10-06-17, 09:19 AM
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...has anyone added the "I'm rubber and you're glue..." thing to the thread yet ? If not, I got dibs.
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Old 10-06-17, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
It's a different seller than the ones I bought and mine came in a roll not a sheet, but they look exactly the same. I've had no issues with them. I ran out of vulcanizing cement err... umm rubber fluid a few years ago and bought a park tool patch kit for more fluid cement and I found the Chinese stuff of better quality (probably because it gave me cancer when I used it).
As for the patches being stiff ... i confess I have had issues when I wasn't careful about sticking them on Really skinny tubes, where the patch diameter was significantly greater than the tube width. I found a little extra care and sometimes an extra shot of "magical amazing secret-sauce vulcanizing compound" fixed it right up.
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Old 10-06-17, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
As for the patches being stiff ... i confess I have had issues when I wasn't careful about sticking them on Really skinny tubes, where the patch diameter was significantly greater than the tube width. I found a little extra care and sometimes an extra shot of "magical amazing secret-sauce vulcanizing compound" fixed it right up.
They are stiffer than the tube material. They don't effect the performance any though in my experience.
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Old 10-06-17, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
As for the patches being stiff ... i confess I have had issues when I wasn't careful about sticking them on Really skinny tubes, where the patch diameter was significantly greater than the tube width. I found a little extra care and sometimes an extra shot of "magical amazing secret-sauce vulcanizing compound" fixed it right up.
Pro tip: cut some patches in half for the skinny tubes.

Normally, the hole is near the seam in the tube anyhow, and the flat edge of the patch can nestle right up against the seam without having to sand it down.
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Old 10-06-17, 03:25 PM
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...I had no idea so many people still patched tubes. I thought tubeless was the future of road biking ?

Anyway, from what I can gather at the Rema booth at the last bike show I attended, the secret trick that most people skip or just don't know about is to "stitch" the patch surface with a little wheel like thingie they make especially for that purpose, but that nobody seems to sell any more.



I have used various improvised implements over the years, based on the same principle of applying considerable pressure to lines along the entirety of the patch by rolling the tool (or if that's all you have, a metal tyre iron) in a sort of cross hatched pattern. It seems to work, but I still have failures from time to time....and I'm using Rema patches and their approved contact adhesive.
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Old 10-06-17, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...I had no idea so many people still patched tubes. I thought tubeless was the future of road biking ?

Anyway, from what I can gather at the Rema booth at the last bike show I attended, the secret trick that most people skip or just don't know about is to "stitch" the patch surface with a little wheel like thingie they make especially for that purpose, but that nobody seems to sell any more.



I have used various improvised implements over the years, based on the same principle of applying considerable pressure to lines along the entirety of the patch by rolling the tool (or if that's all you have, a metal tyre iron) in a sort of cross hatched pattern. It seems to work, but I still have failures from time to time....and I'm using Rema patches and their approved contact adhesive.
You can buy them on EBay. Just search " Rema stitcher."
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Old 10-06-17, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...I had no idea so many people still patched tubes.
Funny thing about all this is I don't. I stopped patching tubes years ago. I just undertook this study for the grins.
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Old 10-06-17, 07:15 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...I had no idea so many people still patched tubes. I thought tubeless was the future of road biking ?
I'm patching unsealable punctures in my tubeless tires. From the inside. So there.
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Old 10-07-17, 03:40 AM
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I used glueless patches successfully on innertubes and tubeless tires. Or should I call them rubber-cement-less patchez
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Old 10-07-17, 08:57 AM
  #47  
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Buy a 4 oz bottle of Elmer's Rubber Cement at a place like Target https://www.target.com/p/4oz-elmers-...B&gclsrc=aw.ds where it will cost you $1.72 for a multi-year supply for at-home patching tubes. It's the same stuff that is in the tiny tubes that dry out the first time you open them. If it begins to get too thick, just add a solvent like paint thinner or better yet, Coleman fuel if you have some.

The real bonding is done by the very sticky surface on the patch that is underneath the foil covering. If you prepare the tube by cleaning it with a solvent on a q-tip you don't have to roughen the surface with those little scrapers that come in patch kits. Works much better. There are lots of Chinese vendors who sell 1" patches for a little more than a dollar for 25. Most of the kits come from China anyway so they are the same patches. $1.06 postpaid Sport Tyre Tube 25mm Cycle Rubber Patches Bike Tire Repair Piece Tool Puncture I cut them in half or quarters for 700C tubes.
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Old 10-07-17, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by VegasTriker View Post
Buy a 4 oz bottle of Elmer's Rubber Cement at a place like Target https://www.target.com/p/4oz-elmers-...B&gclsrc=aw.ds where it will cost you $1.72 for a multi-year supply for at-home patching tubes. It's the same stuff that is in the tiny tubes that dry out the first time you open them. If it begins to get too thick, just add a solvent like paint thinner or better yet, Coleman fuel if you have some.

The real bonding is done by the very sticky surface on the patch that is underneath the foil covering. If you prepare the tube by cleaning it with a solvent on a q-tip you don't have to roughen the surface with those little scrapers that come in patch kits. Works much better. There are lots of Chinese vendors who sell 1" patches for a little more than a dollar for 25. Most of the kits come from China anyway so they are the same patches. $1.06 postpaid Sport Tyre Tube 25mm Cycle Rubber Patches Bike Tire Repair Piece Tool Puncture I cut them in half or quarters for 700C tubes.
I agree with you but want to point out that the sticky surface on the patch is not exactly a glue. It contributes to the bond by supplying the vulcanizing chemicals to the mix. The natural rubber in the cement is what becomes the real adhesive when activated by the vulcanizing chemicals. Then it chemically attaches to both the patch and the tube effectively bonding the patch to the tube.
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Old 10-07-17, 01:23 PM
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Like bottled water, I don't feel ripped off because I'm not paying for the content of the bottle, I'm paying for the convenience of it delivered in the bottle.

I don't think twice about the price/volume of the vulcanizing fluid. It's about having it in a tiny tube to carry on the road. I don't buy high enough volume for it to matter.

But then again I'm a tubeless/glueless man now
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Old 10-07-17, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
I don't think there could be curstives already in the fluid. If those chemicals were in the fluid, they would react with the uncured natural rubber in the fluid and harden it. What would keep that from happening? Basically the idea is a non-starter. I'm telling you that vulcanizing fluid is just rubber cement, period.
Isn't the answer the lack of oxygen and this is shown by the way the tube gets rock hard fairly quickly after having been opened and the contents exposed to air?
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