Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Nagging question: is "vulcanizing fluid" just plain old rubber cement?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Nagging question: is "vulcanizing fluid" just plain old rubber cement?

Old 11-05-18, 02:00 PM
  #76  
datlas 
Should Be More Popular
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 38,922

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 530 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18653 Post(s)
Liked 5,512 Times in 2,710 Posts
Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
3 pages on rubber cement, TLDR, but I use Slime rubber cement. Came in one of those "standard size rubber cement" canisters, and cost me like $8. I'm sure it will dry up before I use it all, but the times I've used it, it's worked perfectly. Important part is getting the legitimate Rema patches though.
But is rubber cement the same as vulcanizing fluid?
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Old 11-05-18, 05:06 PM
  #77  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 23,748

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3049 Post(s)
Liked 2,173 Times in 1,297 Posts
Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
I have run out of patches. Where can I get "quality patches in bulk"??

(Seriously, I am ready to order asap, as I need to glue one inside a tubeless tire that won't seal).
You can get a box of 100 Rema patches for less than US$20:

https://www.amazon.com/Rema-25mm-Round-Patches-100/dp/B0017RV5K4/ref=mp_s_a_1_1/135-9705877-8216945?ie=UTF8&qid=1541459081&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=rema+tire+patch&dpPl=1&dpID=61zJxEIZkmL&ref=plSrch
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 11-05-18, 05:22 PM
  #78  
cthenn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 2,614

Bikes: 2015 Trek Emonda SLR, 2002 Litespeed Classic, 2005 Bianchi Pista, 2016 Devinci Hatchet, Some BikesDirect MTB I never ride.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 628 Post(s)
Liked 117 Times in 78 Posts
Originally Posted by datlas View Post
But is rubber cement the same as vulcanizing fluid?
Iowknow....all I know is it works sealing inner tube punctures!
cthenn is offline  
Old 11-05-18, 05:32 PM
  #79  
GuitarBob
Kit doesn't match
 
GuitarBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 1,057

Bikes: 5

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 187 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 19 Posts
I find the 25 mm patches too big for most road tubes, so I use the 16 mm jobs:

https://www.amazon.com/Rema-F0-P-16m.../dp/B001S36CNC

Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
You can get a box of 100 Rema patches for less than US$20:

https://www.amazon.com/Rema-25mm-Rou...kmL&ref=plSrch
GuitarBob is offline  
Old 11-05-18, 05:40 PM
  #80  
cruiserhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
vulcanizing glue is not the same as rubber cement.
The reason you see some patch kits w/ glue say "rubber cement" is the same reason this exists:


vulcanizing cement works with the backside of the patch to chemically bond to the innertube
rubber cement is just an adhesive
cruiserhead is offline  
Old 11-05-18, 08:47 PM
  #81  
woodcraft
Senior Member
 
woodcraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 6,015
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1814 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 919 Times in 567 Posts
I loaned out a bike & it got a big staple in the tubular tire.

The little patch kit glue tube was partly gone off, & one of the patches (staple went all the way through the tube) didn't hold.

Redid it with contact cement, which worked well.


Apparently, the above sign means "keep off the grass".
woodcraft is offline  
Old 11-06-18, 06:37 AM
  #82  
nycphotography
NYC
 
nycphotography's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,717
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1165 Post(s)
Liked 98 Times in 58 Posts
"I like your smile (I bet you do from down there!!) but don't like when you step on my face" = keep off the grass with some chinese humor. I imagine some of those symbols may have some interesting double meanings.
nycphotography is offline  
Old 11-06-18, 10:37 AM
  #83  
popeye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Posts: 1,907

Bikes: S works Tarmac, Felt TK2 track

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Liked 163 Times in 102 Posts
Could you please run a test using just inner tube for a patch?

I bought a bag of little tubes of glue from China some years ago
but the patches failed. No one else has suffered this fate so
perhaps it was just an outlier.
popeye is online now  
Old 10-13-19, 01:47 AM
  #84  
chimpanzee
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Quick glance through ingredients shows:

Elmer's No-Wrinkle Rubber Cement
>70% Heptane
20-25% natural latex rubber
1-5% Isopropol alcohol

Rema Vulcanizing Fluid
60-95% Naphtha, petroleum, hydrotreated light
1-2.5% N-Ethylcyclohexylamine

other brands also contains: acetone, heptane, trichlorethylene, zinc-dibutyl dithiocarbamate/dibutylamine

Now we can see that the office-stationary "rubber cement" is clearly of different composition than "vulcanizing fluid" regardless of how it's labeled. Leave a bottle of rubber-cement open and you end up with a ball of rubber about 25% the size of the container. Leave a bottle of vulcanizing fluid open and it evaporates to nothing; very different stuff. The N-Ethylcyclohexylamine is a vulcanizing accelerator/catalyst which speeds up vulcanizing enough to occur at room-temperature (heat does the same thing). Ever see "RTV" on various rubber-sealants like caulk? The red uncured rubber on the patches provides the sulfur and in the old days with skinwall tyres, you can see a brown circle appearing on your tyre if you install the patched tube right away. This is caused by the release of various gases during the curing process.

A lot has changed in the past 20-30 years. Just because there was only one way to vulcanize rubber 30-years ago, doesn't mean that technology hasn't improved. Look at how materials technology has improved in frame materials, and how mechanical engineering designs created index shifting. Auto and computer technology has improved significantly in the past 30-years.

In the end, it's not an all-or-nothing, black & white, yes/no issue on patches. It comes down to a shades-of-grey on how well various compounds holds a patch to a tube. I'll do a demo video of "rubber cement" versus "vulcanizing fluid" after 24-hrs curing and show how easy or difficult it is to pull off a patch using both these products.

You can get 8oz Slime rubber cement can for $6 at Pep Boys (more than twice expensive $15 on Ebay)

https://www.pepboys.com/slime-rubber...478?quantity=1 ]


via https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/22..._-_NA.pdf?1202

3 Composition/information on ingredients ·

Chemical characterization:

Mixtures · Components:

8032-32-4 Ligroine 40-60%

9003-35-4 Formaldehyde, oligomeric reaction products with phenol 10-20%

586-62-9 Terpinolene Asp. < 10%
The chemicals don't match the ones for Rema (see above, in BOLD RED)

Someone correctly pointed out, it's better to match REMA vulcanizing fluid with REMA patches (which I like, you can get 100 pack for $16 from Ebay)


I've used Elmer's Rubber Cement with varying success with REMA patches. Sometimes they seal, sometimes they don't

See also this other thread:

Found a good source for patch glue/rubber-cement

Last edited by chimpanzee; 10-13-19 at 01:59 AM.
chimpanzee is offline  
Old 10-14-19, 09:43 AM
  #85  
Spiduhman
Senior Member
 
Spiduhman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: CenCal - SLO
Posts: 710

Bikes: S2, Wilier GTR (Arr), Giant VT, Myata 3-10

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 3 Posts
" on 16mm Rema patches for almost all road tube repairs, also " on the 100 pack. The next size up are handy for mountain tubes and bigger road tubes - just to use the patches, mostly, as 16mm are sufficient for punctures, if not cuts...

I get the smallest tubes of glue to carry with on the road - best not to open/puncture the seal until needed, then carry two tubes of glue, the opened one and a new one as well. I carry a spare inner tube, so hardly ever patch on the road.

The larger tubes of glue stay home.

Try this: before putting your tube of glue away after use, hold it cap side up and carefully squeeze out all the air, such that an arc of liquid is bulging out, then put the lil' lid on there - now there's no air in the tube, and you've lost only the solvent that's evaporated whilst the cap was off (an' don't leave the cap off while playing with your patch). Big difference, you'll find, especially if you're never allowing atmosphere to be drawn into the tube of glue in first place - uncap, maintaining pressure, squeeze out your drop, recap. Carry on.
Spiduhman is offline  
Old 10-17-19, 04:40 AM
  #86  
chimpanzee
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by chimpanzee View Post




You can get 8oz Slime rubber cement can for $6 at Pep Boys (more than twice expensive $15 on Ebay)

https://www.pepboys.com/slime-rubber...478?quantity=1 ]


via https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/22..._-_NA.pdf?1202



The chemicals don't match the ones for Rema (see above, in BOLD RED)

Someone correctly pointed out, it's better to match REMA vulcanizing fluid with REMA patches (which I like, you can get 100 pack for $16 from Ebay)


I've used Elmer's Rubber Cement with varying success with REMA patches. Sometimes they seal, sometimes they don't

See also this other thread:

Found a good source for patch glue/rubber-cement
I just bought 8oz Slime rubber-cement (has an activator element, plus solvent) from Autozone for $6, designed for car tire repair.

[ Can also be obtained from Pep Boys for $5.36 (20% sale), or Walmart for $5.97 ]

The patch with Elmer's rubber-cement failed for a 700c tube. I cleaned it up, & used Slime rubber cement. The instructions made no mention of allowing it to completely dry (as in REMA vulcanizing vluid), so I applied the (used) patch with cement still wet (I did allow it to dry somewhat). It seems to work..!!

I returned the Elmer's Glue to Office Depot.

I've had car tire repairs, using a patch. The tire guy used a grinder to clean the roughen the tire, applied glue (Slime, Xtra Seal, whatever..), applied patch, then used a pizza-cutter type of tool to press it in.

Last edited by chimpanzee; 10-17-19 at 04:47 AM.
chimpanzee is offline  
Old 10-17-19, 12:11 PM
  #87  
Colorado Kid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 715
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 271 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 102 Times in 54 Posts
Just got back from the local farmer's supply store and yes, they have Rema (And other brands) patch kit for sale. Tractor size...I guess you could cut them down or sell off the extra. No, I'm not a Farmer but they do have good prices on a lot things.
Colorado Kid is offline  
Old 10-18-19, 12:49 PM
  #88  
firebird854
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 535

Bikes: 2016 Specialized Tarmac Expert

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 246 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 43 Posts
This post was interesting.
firebird854 is offline  
Old 05-03-20, 02:53 PM
  #89  
Oneder
Banned.
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 822

Bikes: Wahoo of Theseus, others

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Liked 67 Times in 46 Posts
So in essence can I use elmer's if I cut up an old inner tube or not? Do I still need special patches? What is different about the patches if so?
Oneder is offline  
Old 03-28-21, 09:52 AM
  #90  
wesley77803
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 29

Bikes: 1989 Trek 660, 1985 Trek 620

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 5 Posts
The picture on Amazon looks just like the Slime rubber cement picture in the previous posts.

From https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions...k_ql_ql_al_hza

Slime 1050 Rubber Cement - 8 oz.

Is this product considered to be a vulcanizing cement like xtra seal so that it can be used with mushroom type patches for radial tires?


The rubber cement itself is not vulcanizing. It activates with appropriate patches that are vulcanizing. It will work with all Slime patches to achieve your desired results.


ITW Global Brands
Manufacturer · June 25, 2018
wesley77803 is offline  
Old 03-29-21, 05:15 PM
  #91  
Duo
Full Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 499

Bikes: mostly road bikes

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 12 Posts
Harbor Freight still sells a big tube of patches, now $5. https://www.harborfreight.com/inner-...kit-47614.html

Still the same problem with the tiny glue tube. Think I need to look at the big bottle Slime rubber cement as my patch collection multiplies when the glue dries up.

Most of us have been told that the rubber cement is special in these patch kits, and very well may be for some kits. thanks for the study.
Duo is offline  
Old 08-06-22, 07:24 AM
  #92  
sweeks
Senior Member
 
sweeks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 2,157

Bikes: Airborne "Carpe Diem", Motobecane "Mirage", Trek 6000, Strida 2, Dahon "Helios XL", Dahon "Mu XL", Tern "Verge S11i"

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 824 Post(s)
Liked 367 Times in 270 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
I'm telling you that vulcanizing fluid is just rubber cement, period.
Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
Is this the definitive answer?
How about running some through the old HPLC?
sweeks is online now  
Old 08-06-22, 07:28 AM
  #93  
sweeks
Senior Member
 
sweeks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 2,157

Bikes: Airborne "Carpe Diem", Motobecane "Mirage", Trek 6000, Strida 2, Dahon "Helios XL", Dahon "Mu XL", Tern "Verge S11i"

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 824 Post(s)
Liked 367 Times in 270 Posts
Originally Posted by Spiduhman View Post
Try this: before putting your tube of glue away after use, hold it cap side up and carefully squeeze out all the air, such that an arc of liquid is bulging out, then put the lil' lid on there - now there's no air in the tube, and you've lost only the solvent that's evaporated whilst the cap was off (an' don't leave the cap off while playing with your patch).
If you have a can of the fluid, storing it upside-down is said to achieve the same result.
sweeks is online now  
Old 08-06-22, 07:54 AM
  #94  
Spiduhman
Senior Member
 
Spiduhman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: CenCal - SLO
Posts: 710

Bikes: S2, Wilier GTR (Arr), Giant VT, Myata 3-10

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by sweeks View Post
If you have a can of the fluid, storing it upside-down is said to achieve the same result.
That should keep the container from "breathing" past the lid, however, the rigid container means a new pocket of air each time the container is opened, and subsequent loss of volatile component, likely insignificant at first, but adds up quickly when the container is part full, having been opened and shut many times by then, a large batch of air each time, etc.
Ride on!f
Spiduhman is offline  
Likes For Spiduhman:
Old 08-06-22, 08:05 AM
  #95  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 7,958

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4278 Post(s)
Liked 1,243 Times in 818 Posts
Originally Posted by Spiduhman View Post
That should keep the container from "breathing" past the lid, however, the rigid container means a new pocket of air each time the container is opened, and subsequent loss of volatile component, likely insignificant at first, but adds up quickly when the container is part full, having been opened and shut many times by then, a large batch of air each time, etc.
Ride on!f
what if you open it upside down?
Sy Reene is offline  
Likes For Sy Reene:
Old 08-06-22, 10:30 AM
  #96  
sweeks
Senior Member
 
sweeks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 2,157

Bikes: Airborne "Carpe Diem", Motobecane "Mirage", Trek 6000, Strida 2, Dahon "Helios XL", Dahon "Mu XL", Tern "Verge S11i"

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 824 Post(s)
Liked 367 Times in 270 Posts
Originally Posted by Spiduhman View Post
That should keep the container from "breathing" past the lid, however, the rigid container means a new pocket of air each time the container is opened, and subsequent loss of volatile component, likely insignificant at first, but adds up quickly when the container is part full, having been opened and shut many times by then, a large batch of air each time, etc.
Ride on!f
For the sake of argument, that assumes a complete exchange of air each time the container is opened... which may not occur, especially if the repairperson is expedient. But of course, there will be some loss of solvent, and it will increase over time. As often as *I* patch tubes, though, that can will last a good long time!
sweeks is online now  
Old 08-06-22, 12:20 PM
  #97  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 7,958

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4278 Post(s)
Liked 1,243 Times in 818 Posts
It's too bad nobody's selling a reasonable ketchup packet (or smaller even) version of this stuff. Heinz goes for $.10/packet and that includes the ketchup. Take an 8 ounce jar of Rema for $20 and divide to little 3 gram packets would/ should be doable at about $.30/packet.
Sy Reene is offline  
Likes For Sy Reene:
Old 08-07-22, 11:12 PM
  #98  
SproutsChoppers
GlueSniffer
 
SproutsChoppers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2

Bikes: Green Machine Big Wheel trike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
To make this a really classic thread, they should be lit on fire while on the bike.


Kudos for the inquiry.
Word to thine mother! All repairs and scientific inquiries should be seteth on firethFYI
SproutsChoppers is offline  
Old 08-08-22, 08:03 AM
  #99  
datlas 
Should Be More Popular
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 38,922

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 530 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18653 Post(s)
Liked 5,512 Times in 2,710 Posts
Originally Posted by sweeks View Post
How about running some through the old HPLC?
I don't think we ever definitely solved the question, but the OP has left the building. Sad!
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Old 08-09-22, 05:54 AM
  #100  
nycphotography
NYC
 
nycphotography's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,717
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1165 Post(s)
Liked 98 Times in 58 Posts
Originally Posted by datlas View Post
I don't think we ever definitely solved the question, but the OP has left the building. Sad!
That sounds ominous :-(
nycphotography is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.