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Delaware to Become the Second State to Adopt the “Idaho Stop”

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Delaware to Become the Second State to Adopt the “Idaho Stop”

Old 10-06-17, 10:27 AM
  #26  
Maelochs
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
There's a local weather forecaster who wrote a blog saying that while these do in fact save the lives of cyclists and pedestrians, they're not worth the negative effect they have on commute times for drivers.
Quoted to induce <facepalm> memes.
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Old 10-06-17, 10:29 AM
  #27  
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One thing to consider ... all these laws only work with people who care to follow them, or learn them. A think a lot of the drivers (and cyclists) who cause problems are the sort who just don't donate a flock .... As with the three-foot rule. Giving them the legal right to change lanes means nothing if they are willing to run a cyclist off the road anyway.
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Old 10-06-17, 12:21 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Bike lanes are not a panacea.
Erm...yes, they are.


Last edited by rousseau; 10-06-17 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 10-06-17, 12:55 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
The Idaho Stop law just makes sense, the only problem with it are the numbers of people that do it wrong. So many think that this means cyclists never have to stop at a stop sign and just simply roll thru them, making all others wait.

I saw it the other day when I stopped at a sign (on my bike) and another cyclist came from behind me and just rolled thru.
Are you complaining he failed to provide at least 3 feet of clearance when passing?
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Old 10-06-17, 12:56 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Agreed - good, common sense change.

As far as the lights, in MN the law has a little wiggle room and isn't too far off from Idaho. We have to come to a stop but can proceed, if there's no cross traffic, after waiting for a "reasonable" amount of time for the light to change. What's reasonable is in the eye of the beholder, obv; a lot of the lights around here favor the more heavily-traveled road at the intersection and will not change without a sensor being tripped (which isn't going to happen on the bike). At those lights, I think that coming to a stop and crossing when traffic is clear, even if it's immediate, is pretty reasonable.
I'm not highly troubled by expecting cyclists to obey stoplights just as cars do, but the sensors issue is a good point. Usually you can tell, but not always, and sometimes my bike trips them and other times not. I think the "reasonable" rule seems like the best you can get in the situation. (I do like the Idaho stop rule for stop signs though)
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Old 10-06-17, 01:31 PM
  #31  
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Waiting for the sensor to trip the light, a "reasonable" time is usually more than a full cycle and then you have to wait more for traffic to clear. I'd rather that the sensors work and give me a green. I used to really hate those car sensors that never worked with bikes, and then I learned where the induction loops are and amazingly all of the sensors work for me. Stop in the middle on double-loop sensors, directly on the cut if there is one or where the cut would be if there isn't. On the edge line if it's not a double loop. It will work for your bike.

The idaho stop works better still and I hope more states follow suit.
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Old 10-06-17, 01:36 PM
  #32  
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Some signals might have weight sensors ... I have heard rumors but never seen facts.

Most have magnetic induction loops .... loops of wire buried in the road which sense a big mass of magnetic metal. Since I only own one steel bike, and even then, it's only about six pounds of steel ... I try not to do rolling lights if there are drivers who can see me, just to not P them off ... but I am pretty liberal about what constitutes a "reasonable pause ... " Traffic determines that for me.

I'd like the Idaho stop sign rule to be universal.
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Old 10-06-17, 02:25 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
Waiting for the sensor to trip the light, a "reasonable" time is usually more than a full cycle and then you have to wait more for traffic to clear.
How do you wait for more than a full cycle if the lights aren't cycling?
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Old 10-06-17, 02:57 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
How do you wait for more than a full cycle if the lights aren't cycling?
I have seen a left-turn arrow when I needed to cross, and a straight arrow when I needed a left turn.
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Old 10-06-17, 03:10 PM
  #35  
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If the intersection is clear and I have good visibility, I go, as a matter of course. Because of city blocks, and buildings on corners, I almost always have to slow down quite a bit in case a car is approaching but hidden from view.

If the intersection isn’t clear, I wait my turn, just like when I’m driving. It’s not that I’m worried about getting hit, city drivers are used to cyclists and stop signs are maybe the one place where drivers put their phone down. It’s that I don’t want to be a jerk.

I don’t ever run lights or signs in my car because I have less visibility, and so much more inertia and potential to **** things up if I misread the situation. But the bike is light and nimble and offers a clear view.
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Old 10-06-17, 06:52 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Some signals might have weight sensors ... I have heard rumors but never seen facts.

Most have magnetic induction loops .... loops of wire buried in the road which sense a big mass of magnetic metal. Since I only own one steel bike, and even then, it's only about six pounds of steel ...

I'd like the Idaho stop sign rule to be universal.
I'd also like the Idaho stop and red lights to be widely adopted. But I've never seen any weight-based sensor systems. The induction-based sensors just depend on the presence of a good electrical conductor. (They work the same as metal detectors on the beach and those folks aren't looking for iron.) So any sufficient amount of metal will trigger them. My aluminum bikes work fine and carbon bikes with aluminum brake tracks on the wheels trigger them as well. As previously mentioned, the sensitivity depends on exactly where you place your bike. Especially when the sensor wire location isn't clear due to repaving I've found it helpful to partially lay my bike down where I think the sensor should be and this almost always triggers the lights.

A few still won't trigger but our city is pretty good about coming out and adjusting the sensitivity once they're informed of the problem.
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Old 10-06-17, 08:14 PM
  #37  
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Some of our lights are triggered by a camera. There are no visible loops and the camera is mounted on the same support as the lights. I haven't tried to trip one of these while on my bike yet.
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Old 10-06-17, 09:32 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by adamhenry View Post
Some of our lights are triggered by a camera. There are no visible loops and the camera is mounted on the same support as the lights. I haven't tried to trip one of these while on my bike yet.
The town south of us has been putting in some of these at major intersections. As I understand, the main impetus was a state requirement that new and upgraded traffic signals must both detect bicycles and allow enough time for someone traveling at typical bicycle speed to clear the intersection before opposing traffic gets a green. The new detectors can identify when a cyclist is present and extend the yellow and all-red phase times only when that's the case.
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Old 10-07-17, 04:14 AM
  #39  
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I think the topic is appropriate for this sub-forum, because it's an opportunity to look at how road cycling is distinct from city biking, where stop signs and lights abound.
With road cycling, bikes are ridden more like vehicles, and with city biking, more like pedestrian assistants. Seems to me there should be some consideration of how bikes are this sort of a hybrid of pedestrian and vehicle, and the Idaho stop rule does that. The funniest example I've witnessed was in Central Park on a crowded day when cops were watching the crosswalks on the Drive. Bikes are supposed to stop at those lights, of course, so what a lot of us cyclists would do rather than wait when the cops were watching was to was dismount, walk the bike through the "intersection" then continue on.

As for bike lanes.... When I used to ride my own road bike in the city, all kitted out for training, maybe riding to or from a race, I avoided the protected bike lanes. Like many other road cyclists, I found them nerve-racking and too hazardous in comparison to keeping up with traffic in the regular lanes or on avenues that didn't even have bike lanes. But now that all my riding in the city is on a Citibike (in street clothes, maybe even a business suit, and invariably without a helmet), I've become quite comfortable rolling along in the protected lane at a more condition-appropriate pace. The other day, it was kind of funny; as I veered a bit to put myself in a favorable position relative to a car that was about to turn across the bike lane, some guy comes hammering up from behind, ringing his bell, yelling "on your left!" and all, and as he passed he gave me the evil eye as he continued to swear. I wanted to tell him he could save himself a lot of agita if he'd just stay out of the slow lane when he wants to go fast.

Last edited by kbarch; 10-07-17 at 04:21 AM.
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Old 10-08-17, 11:23 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
Forcing drivers to change lanes when passing is the one I love. The three-feet passing law is just stupid and impossible to enforce.
I won't claim to be THE reason for that law being modified, but BikeDE brought me up enough in their discussions with others that I got to do a quick phone interview with Bicycling.com for a story about these changes: https://www.bicycling.com/news/delaw...ses-idaho-stop

He misquoted me in that my 2007 ticket happened on a multi-lane arterial road and a shorter commute. 2013 was when I was ticketed on the narrow winding road on the longer commute, FWIW.
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Old 10-08-17, 11:43 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
He misquoted me in that my 2007 ticket happened on a multi-lane arterial road and a shorter commute. 2013 was when I was ticketed on the narrow winding road on the longer commute, FWIW.
I refuse to read thr article or any further of your posts based on two data:

A.) Youa re a scofflaw, choosing when and when not to be a good cycling citizen ... a Convicted Offender ...

and B.) you are responsible for increasing the size of Big Government.

Orange is the new Blue State.



(Will read that article later ... always nice to know exactly who to blame. Right now I need to do yardwork or I will be the one to blame ... a service I provide for the spouse all to often.)
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Old 10-08-17, 11:51 AM
  #42  
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There ought to be exceptions for the treating red lights like stop signs too. Often in the early morning hours when I'm about the only one going through a major road from a side/residential route. The sensor does not trigger and I could be standing there like an idiot waiting for the countdown only to have it reset because there are no other cars going my way. If I wanted a green light to cross I'd actually have to mount the sidewalk and press the pedestrian crossing button for the light to eventually change. So most times I'd just wait for a gap and go on the red light.

On the commute home it isn't a problem as there are always cars going the same way and they trigger the light.
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Old 10-08-17, 11:53 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I refuse to read thr article or any further of your posts based on two data:

A.) Youa re a scofflaw, choosing when and when not to be a good cycling citizen ... a Convicted Offender ...
The law has always given cyclists in DE the right to use the full lane, it has just done so begrudgingly and in such a way that the onus is entirely on the cyclist to prove that what they are doing is legal. So you can imagine how that goes roadside with a police officer.

Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
and B.) you are responsible for increasing the size of Big Government.

Orange is the new Blue State.

I don't like it any more than you do

Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
(Will read that article later ... always nice to know exactly who to blame. Right now I need to do yardwork or I will be the one to blame ... a service I provide for the spouse all to often.)
Best of luck!
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Old 10-08-17, 02:25 PM
  #44  
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I live at the Oregon-Idaho border and near interstate 84.


Good luck.
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