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Delaware to Become the Second State to Adopt the “Idaho Stop”

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Delaware to Become the Second State to Adopt the “Idaho Stop”

Old 10-05-17, 10:59 PM
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John00
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Delaware to Become the Second State to Adopt the “Idaho Stop”

I hope other States follow soon



https://mtablet.net/delaware-to-beco...the-idaho-stop
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Old 10-06-17, 01:39 AM
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"Delaware adopts Idaho measure to make it easier for cyclists to annoy and get hit by ignorant drivers."

"Did you see him run that stop sign!!" "Yeah, and he was halfway out in the road!" "Yeah, let's chase him and honk at him!"

If you look at everything just right, there is no progress,..
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Old 10-06-17, 05:28 AM
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Brilliant. No, I really mean it. Brilliant. Like paving the paths on the college campus that all the students wear down in the grass and declaring them to be be official walking paths. It is already what everyone does. This just makes it official.
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Old 10-06-17, 05:41 AM
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The Idaho Stop law just makes sense, the only problem with it are the numbers of people that do it wrong. So many think that this means cyclists never have to stop at a stop sign and just simply roll thru them, making all others wait.

I saw it the other day when I stopped at a sign (on my bike) and another cyclist came from behind me and just rolled thru.
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Old 10-06-17, 06:07 AM
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I guess passing a law is cheaper than putting in bike lanes.
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Old 10-06-17, 06:24 AM
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I agree with this change. Note that the law passed for Delaware applies to STOP signs. They did not adopt the Idaho Stop for red lights (which in Idaho allows cyclists to treat a red light like a stop sign, come to full stop and may proceed with caution if no cross traffic).
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Old 10-06-17, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by datlas View Post
I agree with this change. Note that the law passed for Delaware applies to STOP signs. They did not adopt the Idaho Stop for red lights (which in Idaho allows cyclists to treat a red light like a stop sign, come to full stop and may proceed with caution if no cross traffic).
Agreed - good, common sense change.

As far as the lights, in MN the law has a little wiggle room and isn't too far off from Idaho. We have to come to a stop but can proceed, if there's no cross traffic, after waiting for a "reasonable" amount of time for the light to change. What's reasonable is in the eye of the beholder, obv; a lot of the lights around here favor the more heavily-traveled road at the intersection and will not change without a sensor being tripped (which isn't going to happen on the bike). At those lights, I think that coming to a stop and crossing when traffic is clear, even if it's immediate, is pretty reasonable.
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Old 10-06-17, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony P. View Post
I guess passing a law is cheaper than putting in bike lanes.
Bike lanes are not a panacea. And in places like Philly, where I live, you have to take out a travel lane to put in a bike lane in many instances since the streets are often narrow. The city did just that with a few of the less busy streets. (BTW...Those bike lanes make great places for delivery trucks, etc., to stop.)There was a lot of opposition. It would never happen with the heavily travelled arteries in center city. The Idaho rules would be perfect for Philly since it would help cyclists to stay ahead of traffic.
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Old 10-06-17, 06:34 AM
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Forcing drivers to change lanes when passing is the one I love. The three-feet passing law is just stupid and impossible to enforce.
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Old 10-06-17, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Agreed - good, common sense change.

As far as the lights, in MN the law has a little wiggle room and isn't too far off from Idaho. We have to come to a stop but can proceed, if there's no cross traffic, after waiting for a "reasonable" amount of time for the light to change. What's reasonable is in the eye of the beholder, obv; a lot of the lights around here favor the more heavily-traveled road at the intersection and will not change without a sensor being tripped (which isn't going to happen on the bike). At those lights, I think that coming to a stop and crossing when traffic is clear, even if it's immediate, is pretty reasonable.
I believe we have a "Dead Red" law in Pennsylvania, more for motorcyclists, that allows a cyclist to proceed on a red light if after waiting a "reasonable" amount of time, the light does not change. This is to address that some sensors for lights will not detect a motorcycle or bicycle. I wish my state would also pass the Idaho stop rule for stop signs, but we are pretty far behind the curve, maybe neighboring Delaware will rub off on us.
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Old 10-06-17, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony P. View Post
I guess passing a law is cheaper than putting in bike lanes.
Smarter too. There are few things as horrible as bike lanes. Unsafe, stupid...
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Old 10-06-17, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
The Idaho Stop law just makes sense, the only problem with it are the numbers of people that do it wrong. So many think that this means cyclists never have to stop at a stop sign and just simply roll thru them, making all others wait.

I saw it the other day when I stopped at a sign (on my bike) and another cyclist came from behind me and just rolled thru.
Well, are you in Idaho where this law is in effect? Did the person who rolled thru know what an "Idaho Stop"' is? Maybe he/she just rides that way and wouldn't change even if they knew what they're supposed to do.

Also, as I read the guidelines, it seems the idea is that a stop sign for bicyclists becomes a Yield sign. So, if traffic from other directions at an intersection has a stop sign, who has initial right of way -- cars with stop signs, or bicyclists with yield signs?
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Old 10-06-17, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Smarter too. There are few things as horrible as bike lanes. Unsafe, stupid...
Few things are as horrible as bike lanes? Man, I genuinely hadnt noticed. We have bike lanes in the downtown and also in the residential parts of the city and they seem fine. I use the downtown ones a lot- with a ton of teens- and they are quite user friendly. I dont even give a second thought to riding in a bike lane around here.

What makes them so bad around you?
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Old 10-06-17, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Also, as I read the guidelines, it seems the idea is that a stop sign for bicyclists becomes a Yield sign. So, if traffic from other directions at an intersection has a stop sign, who has initial right of way -- cars with stop signs, or bicyclists with yield signs?
If there's traffic present, you need to come to a stop and normal right-of-way rules apply - first to the intersection, person to the right, etc.
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Old 10-06-17, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Few things are as horrible as bike lanes? Man, I genuinely hadnt noticed. We have bike lanes in the downtown and also in the residential parts of the city and they seem fine. I use the downtown ones a lot- with a ton of teens- and they are quite user friendly. I dont even give a second thought to riding in a bike lane around here.

What makes them so bad around you?
Some places do them better than others. Some of the drawbacks of some bike lanes: narrow, not much room to maneuver around obstacles, many are next to parking spaces and put you squarely in the 'dooring zone,' debris often accumulates in lanes because the car tires push it there, some drivers treat them as designated double-parking lanes, some lanes don't safely account for right-turning vehicles traveling in the same direction, etc, etc.
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Old 10-06-17, 07:56 AM
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This thread is civil so far, but dangerously close to A&S so I'm going to say I agree with most of the above and ****.
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Old 10-06-17, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
Forcing drivers to change lanes when passing is the one I love. The three-feet passing law is just stupid and impossible to enforce.
In PA, the 4' passing law doesn't require you to change lanes. It simply requires you to give 4'. In some cases, that can be done without breaching the double yellow line. Where it cannot, a motorist is expressly allowed to cross the double yellow line, in order to give 4', if it is safe to do so.
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Old 10-06-17, 08:19 AM
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I am pretty sure the 3 or 4 foot passing rule is not really enforced per se, but exists so that if a car hits a cyclist it's res ipsa loquitur and prima facie evidence that the rule was broken.

p.s. I am not a lawyer so forgive me if my legalese is not quite right.
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Old 10-06-17, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by datlas View Post
I am pretty sure the 3 or 4 foot passing rule is not really enforced per se, but exists so that if a car hits a cyclist it's res ipsa loquitur and prima facie evidence that the rule was broken.

p.s. I am not a lawyer so forgive me if my legalese is not quite right.
I see your res ipsa loquitur and prima facie and raise you:

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Praesent ipsum enim, iaculis non massa eu, egestas pellentesque justo. Sed tincidunt ante id fringilla porttitor. Praesent sagittis lorem vitae porta blandit. Aenean iaculis tincidunt urna et posuere. Phasellus consectetur luctus ultrices. Integer consectetur orci id consequat posuere. Sed sed risus nibh. Curabitur a nisl interdum, viverra metus vitae, tristique nunc. Praesent malesuada felis lacus, fringilla bibendum nulla viverra cursus. Nulla facilisi. Mauris pretium, lectus sit amet posuere viverra, eros diam semper est, vel convallis leo ex eget turpis.
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Old 10-06-17, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
I see your res ipsa loquitur and prima facie and raise you:

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Praesent ipsum enim, iaculis non massa eu, egestas pellentesque justo. Sed tincidunt ante id fringilla porttitor. Praesent sagittis lorem vitae porta blandit. Aenean iaculis tincidunt urna et posuere. Phasellus consectetur luctus ultrices. Integer consectetur orci id consequat posuere. Sed sed risus nibh. Curabitur a nisl interdum, viverra metus vitae, tristique nunc. Praesent malesuada felis lacus, fringilla bibendum nulla viverra cursus. Nulla facilisi. Mauris pretium, lectus sit amet posuere viverra, eros diam semper est, vel convallis leo ex eget turpis.
Kudos. I think?
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Old 10-06-17, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by datlas View Post
Kudos. I think?
Probably. I don't know.
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Old 10-06-17, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
I see your res ipsa loquitur and prima facie and raise you:

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Praesent ipsum enim, iaculis non massa eu, egestas pellentesque justo. Sed tincidunt ante id fringilla porttitor. Praesent sagittis lorem vitae porta blandit. Aenean iaculis tincidunt urna et posuere. Phasellus consectetur luctus ultrices. Integer consectetur orci id consequat posuere. Sed sed risus nibh. Curabitur a nisl interdum, viverra metus vitae, tristique nunc. Praesent malesuada felis lacus, fringilla bibendum nulla viverra cursus. Nulla facilisi. Mauris pretium, lectus sit amet posuere viverra, eros diam semper est, vel convallis leo ex eget turpis.
Ah, the good ol' default wall of text.
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Old 10-06-17, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Ah, the good ol' default wall of text.
I used a random generator of fake Latin to really drive my "point" home.
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Old 10-06-17, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
I used a random generator of fake Latin to really drive my "point" home.
"Lorem ipsum" followed by a jumble of Latin has long been used to layout the typeset as a placeholder for relevant text.

But kudos on driving home that point - it convinced me.
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Old 10-06-17, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Bike lanes are not a panacea. And in places like Philly, where I live, you have to take out a travel lane to put in a bike lane in many instances since the streets are often narrow. The city did just that with a few of the less busy streets. (BTW...Those bike lanes make great places for delivery trucks, etc., to stop.)There was a lot of opposition. It would never happen with the heavily travelled arteries in center city. The Idaho rules would be perfect for Philly since it would help cyclists to stay ahead of traffic.
We call that a "road diet" here. We don't do it to have bike lanes, that's just icing on the cake. We do this when enough people in a residential zone complain about too-fast traffic on their street. Usually the road starts with two lanes in each direction; it gets reduced to one lane each way, a center turn lane, and bike lanes on each side. The bike lanes are just to use up space, really.

There's a local weather forecaster who wrote a blog saying that while these do in fact save the lives of cyclists and pedestrians, they're not worth the negative effect they have on commute times for drivers.
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