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-   -   Aluminum Road Frames (https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/1124645-aluminum-road-frames.html)

on the path 10-15-17 10:57 AM


Originally Posted by aplcr0331 (Post 19920936)

Here's a CAAD 12, one of the best aluminum frames with Ultegra for $1600 - https://www.rei.com/product/892479/c...egra-bike-2017

"This product is no longer available"...

Maelochs 10-15-17 11:43 AM

Well ... I am pretty sure Someone still sells the top of Cannondale's aluminum line ... the bike itself hasn't been discontinued.

Athens80 10-15-17 01:24 PM


Originally Posted by Maelochs (Post 19931310)
Well ... I am pretty sure Someone still sells the top of Cannondale's aluminum line ... the bike itself hasn't been discontinued.

Yeah, I expect the current model will become more available than last year's model.

fietsbob 10-15-17 01:26 PM

Had An AlAn in the 80's ..

twodownzero 10-15-17 01:58 PM


Originally Posted by Maelochs (Post 19921732)
If you are willing to spend $1000, forget aluminum and look at Lynskey on EBay.

I'm with you on this. If I wanted to spend $1000 on a frameset, I could get a brand new Gunnar or a used Ti frame; not sure why I'd mess with aluminum at that point.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder how aluminum ever seemed like a useful material from which to make a bicycle frame. Any weight difference is marginal over other materials because aluminum is weak, and it's not durable, easy to work/weld, nor cheap to buy. Outside of making a 45 pound Walmart hybrid into a 35 pound one, I just don't see the use.

CliffordK 10-15-17 02:04 PM


Originally Posted by Athens80 (Post 19931451)
Yeah, I expect the current model will become more available than last year's model.

Different colors?

Is it time for the CAAD 13?

That could spell doom for the entire line of bikes :eek:

Maelochs 10-15-17 02:13 PM

I am pretty sure there are a few 2017 ... even 2016 CAAD 12s out there ... just because one branch of REI might be out ... but whatever. Nothing I care enough to fight over.

I am still not sure why OP wants an Al frame. Pretty much the only reasons I could imagine would be to race crits with less fear of crash damage, or to have a bike with rack mounts ( a lot of CF bikes apparently cannot support the load on their seat stays.)

Considering that a bike's frame is nearly indestructible in normal use, I'd buy used and strip off the excess. But seriously, check Lynskey on EBay ... for a grand you can get a new Ti frame and fork.

Or ... buy an older CAAD and replace what you don't like. Unless it was crashed Really badly, the frame will be just as good after a year or two.

Trakhak 10-15-17 02:47 PM

I don't wonder why the OP wants an aluminum frame. After decades of riding high-end steel bikes, aluminum bikes are all I've ridden for the last 15 years or so. The quality/cost ratio is unmatched by any other frame material, and I love the utterly predictable handling of torsionally rigid aluminum bikes.

And I've always had a hard time understanding the appeal of titanium. You can build a decent frame out of it, of course. Still, while it's lighter than steel and stronger than aluminum, it's also heavier than aluminum and weaker than steel.

You don't have to paint it, though, so there's that. And unpainted titanium frames are certainly handsome.

ClickClickBoom 10-15-17 08:12 PM

I love Aluminum bikes.

I have two built up now. An Allez Special Edition and a Van Dessel Hellafaster. (I just pulled apart a CAAD 12 Black Inc to finish a Carbon bike build)

Here is what I looked at, it's a short list.

LOW bikes. (Made in the USA)

Vynl Bikes (Made in the USA)

Van Dessel Hellafaster (Made in the USA by Zen before they went out of business there are still frames available)

Specialized Allez Sprint Special Edition (Made in Taiwan)

CAAD 12 (Made in Taiwan)

Get the LOW. So sweet looking.

Hapsmo911 10-15-17 09:15 PM

Theres plenty of Caads around at closeout prices, in my area at least

https://shop.sportsbasement.com/sear...%5D=Cannondale

Aggressive Bay Area close-out bicycle deals

McBTC 10-15-17 11:24 PM


Originally Posted by twodownzero (Post 19931496)
...

The more I think about it, the more I wonder how aluminum ever seemed like a useful material from which to make a bicycle frame. Any weight difference is marginal over other materials because aluminum is weak, and it's not durable, easy to work/weld, nor cheap to buy. Outside of making a 45 pound Walmart hybrid into a 35 pound one, I just don't see the use.

Aluminum is lighter and hit it big in the burgeoning market for sprung MTB frames in the 80s. It's not the go-to material for custom frame building but apparently, once the investment is made in hydroforming technology, production-made aluminum frames are comparatively cheap given the fact aluminum is >4 times more costly than steel.

chaadster 10-16-17 04:56 AM


Originally Posted by McBTC (Post 19932372)
Aluminum is lighter and hit it big in the burgeoning market for sprung MTB frames in the 80s. It's not the go-to material for custom frame building but apparently, once the investment is made in hydroforming technology, production-made aluminum frames are comparatively cheap given the fact aluminum is >4 times more costly than steel.

Do you mean the ‘90s? I don’t recall there being any quantity of sprung alloy MTBs in the ‘80s, and honestly can’t recall one, though it was such a dynamic time, I’m sure there was!

I remember Cannondale as the guys putting alu on the map in terms of production scale, like around ‘84, followed by Klein. Smaller builders had been in the mix, like American and Cunningham, and by the late 80’s, GTs Zaskar, but we’re
Still talking about rigid frames on all these.

Jar my memory for me, though, if you did mean ‘80s, because I really do love recalling the early MTB era. It was so exciting!

twodownzero 10-16-17 10:43 AM


Originally Posted by McBTC (Post 19932372)
Aluminum is lighter and hit it big in the burgeoning market for sprung MTB frames in the 80s. It's not the go-to material for custom frame building but apparently, once the investment is made in hydroforming technology, production-made aluminum frames are comparatively cheap given the fact aluminum is >4 times more costly than steel.

Aluminum is lighter but also weaker. High end steel is probably lighter for most frames.

Aluminum's primary advantage is probably that it does not rust.

Other materials are superior in every way.

Trakhak 10-16-17 11:22 AM


Originally Posted by twodownzero (Post 19933078)
Aluminum is lighter but also weaker. High end steel is probably lighter for most frames.

Aluminum's primary advantage is probably that it does not rust.

Other materials are superior in every way.

Aluminum has all but replaced the other materials in the U.S. marketplace, except for the high-end bikes, where carbon dominates. Are people really that worried about rust?

twodownzero 10-16-17 11:32 AM


Originally Posted by Trakhak (Post 19933160)
Aluminum has all but replaced the other materials in the U.S. marketplace, except for the high-end bikes, where carbon dominates. Are people really that worried about rust?

What does aluminum do better that another material wouldn't? Not all changes are innovative. Perhaps 30 years ago, aluminum use in bicycles was somewhat innovative. Today, I really struggle to find any application where aluminum is better than its alternatives. Marketing and institutional inertia don't make things better.

lyrictenor1 10-16-17 11:46 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Fuji Roubaix Elite frameset. MSRP $799: Fuji Bikes | Roubaix Elite Frame

CliffordK 10-16-17 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by Trakhak (Post 19933160)
Aluminum has all but replaced the other materials in the U.S. marketplace, except for the high-end bikes, where carbon dominates. Are people really that worried about rust?

I will say that under ordinary conditions, it takes quite some time for a frame to rust through. However, it can be unsightly. Newer steel alloys are more rust resistant. At the same time, newer aluminum alloys (lighter than 6061) are more prone to corrosion.

But aluminum is here to stay.

When one looks at some of the old steel road frames, it is amazing how much flex they actually have.

As I understand it, aluminum frames have evolved.

1980's and 1990's.
Aluminum frames copied steel frames. Bonded lugged design. Small tubes. Too much flex.
Early 2000's.
Welded Aluminum frames. Oversized tubes. Generally straight, but often non-round.
Attempt to remove all flex from the frames.
2010's.
Carbon Fiber Frames have started evolving to greater engineering. Oversized tubes. Full width bottom bracket.
At the same time, Aluminum frames have evolved to mimic the "modern" CF frames, probably both for stylistic reasons, but also likely the same driving forces for engineered CF also apply to engineered aluminum.
Put flex where it is needed, take it out from where it isn't needed.
Steel?
A few changes over the years, in particular with more weld tolerant alloys and processing methods. But, to a large extent, the steel bikes haven't progressed much since the 1950's.
Is one material better than others? It is hard to say. They all suffer from fatigue issues to some extent. They all suffer in crashes. And, they all may have hidden or visible crash damage that can pop up later.

Personally, to a large extent I've jumped from steel to CF, and use both, mostly skipping aluminum. I do have one bike that I ride some made of aluminum, and should have a second aluminum bike going shortly, but I wouldn't argue against its merits based on it not falling into my personal goals.

Maelochs 10-16-17 01:22 PM

The big benefit of Al is that it can be formed more easily than steel, to make a lighter bike with the same strength, which for lower-end bikes is a benefit.

Steel, to match AL's weight, needs to be weaker or needs to be very carefully designed and constructed. Al can be shaped a lot more easily and machine-welded (so can steel, but it is hard to weld very thin steel.)

Al can be formed to have better ride characteristics, meeting or beating steel at a lighter weight.

So ... if a factory wants to make a cheaper, lighter bike, Al is the best choice. And since people are seeking lighter bikes (which wasn't a big deal 30-40 years ago when steel was king and Al was in its infancy)

memebag 10-16-17 03:45 PM


Originally Posted by CliffordK (Post 19933223)
... Put flex where it is needed, take it out from where it isn't needed...

That's what I liked about the CAAD12 frame. If it was made out of some other material and rode like it does and cost what it does I would have bought it. The CF SuperSix EVO has a similar ride (flex to absorb road noise, stiff for everything else), but I liked the CAAD12 more. And the CAAD12 was cheaper.

chaadster 10-16-17 04:50 PM


Originally Posted by CliffordK (Post 19933223)
I will say that under ordinary conditions, it takes quite some time for a frame to rust through. However, it can be unsightly. Newer steel alloys are more rust resistant. At the same time, newer aluminum alloys (lighter than 6061) are more prone to corrosion.

But aluminum is here to stay.

When one looks at some of the old steel road frames, it is amazing how much flex they actually have.

As I understand it, aluminum frames have evolved.

1980's and 1990's.
Aluminum frames copied steel frames. Bonded lugged design. Small tubes. Too much flex.
Early 2000's.
Welded Aluminum frames. Oversized tubes. Generally straight, but often non-round.
Attempt to remove all flex from the frames.
2010's.
Carbon Fiber Frames have started evolving to greater engineering. Oversized tubes. Full width bottom bracket.
At the same time, Aluminum frames have evolved to mimic the "modern" CF frames, probably both for stylistic reasons, but also likely the same driving forces for engineered CF also apply to engineered aluminum.
Put flex where it is needed, take it out from where it isn't needed.
Steel?
A few changes over the years, in particular with more weld tolerant alloys and processing methods. But, to a large extent, the steel bikes haven't progressed much since the 1950's.
Is one material better than others? It is hard to say. They all suffer from fatigue issues to some extent. They all suffer in crashes. And, they all may have hidden or visible crash damage that can pop up later.

Personally, to a large extent I've jumped from steel to CF, and use both, mostly skipping aluminum. I do have one bike that I ride some made of aluminum, and should have a second aluminum bike going shortly, but I wouldn't argue against its merits based on it not falling into my personal goals.

Your timetable is pretty out of whack.

Few, notably Vitus and Alan, made bonded/lugged road frames, and those were intro'd in the '70s, with virtually no one using that construction into the '90s.

Klein's crazy alu dates from the '70s, though really didn't get big until around the time Cannondale launched their welded aluminum road frames in the early '80s.

Move into the '90s, and everybody was welding alu frames, from Trek to Colnago, Pinarello, Bianchi, and of course, Giant.

McBTC 10-16-17 06:37 PM


Originally Posted by chaadster (Post 19932530)
...



Jar my memory for me, though, if you did mean ‘80s, because I really do love recalling the early MTB era. It was so exciting!

I'm younger than I thought. I bought one of first of Specialized Stumpjumper mountain bikes which was in the early 80s (and later, a Rockhopper for my spouse which we still have-- Biopace rings). But, my old Giant ATX with the CU99 aluminum frame (frame shock and purple stays) apparently was purchased in the 90s.

chaadster 10-16-17 07:13 PM


Originally Posted by McBTC (Post 19933960)
I'm younger than I thought. I bought one of first of Specialized Stumpjumper mountain bikes which was in the early 80s (and later, a Rockhopper for my spouse which we still have-- Biopace rings). But, my old Giant ATX with the CU99 aluminum frame (frame shock and purple stays) apparently was purchased in the 90s.

You should be happy about that; I've got the opposite problem, in that I'm constantly reminded that I'm older than I think!

ClickClickBoom 10-17-17 12:56 PM

I know I'm in the minority but I prefer the feel of a high end aluminum frame with a good build to most carbon frames. I like the feed back they give.

jordanair45 10-17-17 01:00 PM


Originally Posted by Hapsmo911 (Post 19932255)
Theres plenty of Caads around at closeout prices, in my area at least

https://shop.sportsbasement.com/sear...%5D=Cannondale

Aggressive Bay Area close-out bicycle deals

LOVE sports basement! Awesome shop. Just got a Evo SS Hi Mod disc ultegra on sale for $2700 at SB . Rock on!

Also, in bay area, go ride bikes in RC always has fantastic deals.

Lots of closeouts this time of year, best deals are to be had right now.

Hapsmo911 10-17-17 01:38 PM


Originally Posted by ClickClickBoom (Post 19935401)
I know I'm in the minority but I prefer the feel of a high end aluminum frame with a good build to most carbon frames. I like the feed back they give.

Same here. I much prefer my Caad over my EVO for 99% of my riding...


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