We’ve some history together as I recall, so you assuring me of anything is a non-starter.

I’m not privy to what Breeze or any designer would say to the Taiwanese, but it’s not relevant to the time-honored custom of reinforcing mount points and high load areas like HT/DT junctions and disc mounts with extra material, gussets, or bracing, or using thicker walled tubing to achieve the same. More mass is, not surprisingly, more mass, irrespective of what is done with it.

Again, I suspect in this case that the weight is in thicker wall tubing primarily for durability.

Thanks.

Of course the damn bike isn't available until January, so I guess I'll keep shopping.:lol:

Since the loaded touring thing isn't really on your agenda anyway, maybe take a look at the Charge Plug bikes, I think the Plug 2 is the one in your price range. They've looked pretty well spec'd to me in the past, and the alu frame may save some weight over the Doppler, although I don't know what Plug2 weighs.

Hmm, I'm not seeing any USA info for Charge now, but here's the site: 2017 Plug 2 - Charge Bikes

I see him around town, & at the bike museum,

so not Hawaii, & still involved w/ bikes.

Eh I'm 230 lbs, not likely to get below 180. My daily loop is going to be 30 miles, 20 of which is a gravel road nobody lives on that's lucky to see one vehicle a day. The two dead-end out&back spur roads can add another 20 miles, and those roads might not see anybody for months once their campgrounds shut down(and they're already shut down). So I'm going to have probably 15, 20 lbs of overnight gear & food on whatever bike I ride at all times for safety. And overnight bikepacking is a possibility.

So a sturdy bike is a must.

Thank you for the charge suggestion.

FWIW the Plug2’s rear rack mounts are rated to 55lbs.

If you prefer steel, you can a Cotic Escapade frameset shipped over from the UK for $490. I reckon you could build it up comparably for $1.2k-ish.

Www.cotic.co.uk

Looks like a nice suggestion, but it seems a bit small for the XL. I've decided to just put 28mm gravel king tires on my road bike, and see how long I can stand that. I'm hoping I can at least put off spending any more $$ until the weather gets bad in late December, early January. It seems like nothing that's grabbed my interest is available, or available in my size(60-62) right now.