@ThimothyH - very kind. Thank you.

On the topic/off topic of pedaling I am talking to a new/potential coach. He was discussing with me his seminar he is giving on pedaling technique and how to bring other/different muscles into the stroke. The idea is as you bring these new muscles in you rest the others. No comment on there particular style, but where we totally agree is the human is much different than a mechanical machine in that the fatigue part comes into play. What is most mechanically efficient may not be maintainable.
You see these guys doing 170+ RPM on rollers. I used to free spin (no chain on cranks) on a trainer and at those super high RPM, I was exhausted, while from a physics standpoint I was doing no work other than spinning a circle. So while mechanically 50# pedal force @ 70 RPM is the same as 25# force at 140 RPM the rider energy/effort is not the same. And the fatigue in the legs is not the same.

So to rollers and pedaling and style - my opinion, not science, but I road them first about 1976.
Every rider needs several pedaling styles and they need these to be reflex and selected naturally. A smooth circular pedaling stroke (where force is applied as close to equal over the as much arc as possible) is best where force is low (generally higher cadence). Force has to be lower because the muscles that are taking the stroke back and up are nothing compared to the ones that take the pedals over the top and down. Spinning is more aerobic and will minimize fatigue in the muscle and clear them from waste build-up from the activity itself and the prior days of training. Using rollers to spin out the legs in therapeutic. It is also great for warming up, however many prefer a trainer for that and don't want to worry about concentrating.

When it comes to high power, most that power is going to come from the two major muscle groups the quads and glutes and the other muscles can't play in that range. It is not reasonable to try to develop hamstrings to pull back with the force you can push down with. So for the same power, the rider has to back off pedal force and spin more, or really bring in the "big guns", more force, where down stroke from glutes and quads will result is a bigger difference in pedal force through the arc. That will result in more of a stomp type stroke. The result will be more power and maybe more fatigue (more muscle power = more waste). There is a ratio of pulse to rest that works for every muscle. I tend to think that is personal.

Example math to explain what I mean is using 120 RPM = .5 sec a pedal rotation (for easy math) which is better:
.1sec power contraction of 50lbs for 20% (1/5th) the 360 degree arc = 72degrees of arc (2 o'clock to 4'oclock)
muscle relaxing .4sec each rotation.
OR
.05sec power contraction of 100lbs over 36degrees of arc?

The numbers were for illustration and reality is not 2:1 ratios I used for the math. It is similar to asking if it is easier to lift 100lbs 10 times, or 50lbs 20 times in the same amount of time. It of course depends on the muscles/lift, the person and the training.

Anyway due to different muscle ability, position on the bike, fatigue and waste removal, and having seen some private data,...and personal (kid) testing, spinning on rollers was not the ideal stroke for getting the most power on a road bike.

To the degree roller spin training teach a rider to spin when they should "stomp" when needed, it is not a good thing to do. If however rollers are used to chill, get comfortable, do more aerobic lower power work, they are great.

If one is seriously interested in developing a herky-jerky, ill-balanced, halting and/or plodding pedaling style combined with tense erratic steering inputs Do Not spend any time riding rollers. Otherwise......:foo:

-Bandera

Rollers make you smoother. I said that. They do not make you faster.

The Worlds ITT and TdF ITT riders are seen warming up on trainers rather than rollers because it better fits their "herky-jerky, ill-balanced, halting and/or plodding pedaling style combined with tense erratic steering inputs", as they go faster.

Rollers are recreational things that all good riders should know how to do, but less than the ideal training tool.

Satire may not be your favorite literary device but both you and I both know that experienced racing cyclists can be as smooth in their power output as required and are generally calm confident bike handlers. TT specialists just do so in far bigger gears at a much faster pace on difficult to adapt to highly specialized machines.

Why trainers to warm up on? The space limitations of team vehicle carrying capacity make folding trainers a wise choice for warm ups as is the considerable resistance available and no-risk of a "crash" with an entire high value team going hard shoulder-to-shoulder in a small paddock in pre-race warm ups. Rollers are simply not suitable for that use.

Rollers might indeed be close to an "ideal training tool" for developing a smooth pedaling style with calm steering inputs, but not much else. Once those basics of technique are mastered or refreshed in the winter the seasonal program of building endurance for the hard work on power and speed to actually "go faster" can start from a firm base of technique. Or not, suit yourself.

-Bandera

I completely agree and always have.
Just that I believe for the road, that leads to slower riding.

I think the OP has the basics mastered. I think many do.
Rollers are mostly un-used these days in road. Those Kreitler Hot Dog rollers my kid used in the train (video above) pack in carry-on. So I don't think size matters here, or is the reason for a trainer.

I believe what we are debating is that one pedaling style should be more valued than another.
My point - no. They each have their place and rollers are particularly good for training one particular style. That being smooth circles which we both agree.

My 2nd point is that smooth circles is a less powerful (bike is slower) pedaling technique and appropriate for longer power conservation (high MPG type) riding, not for going the fastest.

We are not debating "pedaling style" value at all, certainly not "circles" which I've never mentioned or what is "fastest" in pedaling technique.

Here's what I did say once more:

Roller riding teaches basic smooth pedaling techniques and calm steering inputs: Old School stuff that was once considered important.

I'll respond to input on anything that I've said in this thread, but not to what I didn't.
Have a nice evening. ;)

-Bandera

[MENTION=335281]Bandera[/MENTION], seems we are in agreement. I'm not seeing wehre we disagree. Maybe in using rollers over using something else?

You posted:
I replied:
You said:
So what you state the purpose was, still may be useful, but many other things are taking competing with that. Now we have MTB season, cross, gravel many more bike types and options for off-season fun.

It boils down to each riders goals and what/how they want to manage time. As one more into the sport part, and also where riding a bike is an option most times, rollers can be replaced by other things.
For the OP who rides a lot - posts more about gravel type riding, does weights, I thought the focus on skill and technique to ride rollers would primarily help him ride rollers better. Rather as I posted early on, parabolic no-concentration type rollers would suit him fine.